------------------------------
The Old-Time Radio Digest!
Volume 01 : Issue 199
A Part of the [removed]!
ISSN: 1533-9289
Today's Topics:
Re: Silent Stars on Radio [GEORGE WAGNER <gwagneroldtimeradio@]
Amari probably owns what he [removed] ["Lois Culver" <lois@[removed]; ]
Identical scripts ["greg przywara" <orsonwelles3@home.]
Public Domain ["Mike Kerezman" <philipmarlowe@eart]
Francis X. Busman [Conrad Binyon <conradab@[removed]]
Re: Johnny Dollar and various actor [Garpboy@[removed] ]
Gambling's Back [Udmacon@[removed] ]
Owning the Master [JJJ445@[removed] ]
The Longbranch [Kubelski@[removed] ]
Radio Spirits, yes [Ben Ohmart <bloodbleeds@[removed]; ]
Re: Sorry Wrong Number [OTRChris@[removed] ]
Re: "Abie's Irish Rose" [Udmacon@[removed] ]
Cigaret Commercials [William L Murtough <k2mfi@[removed];]
Olan Soule [William L Murtough <k2mfi@[removed];]
"Adverse Possession" ["Doug Leary" <dleary@[removed]; ]
stars on radio [knight555@[removed] ]
Re: Olan Soule ["Lee, Steve (DEOC)" <slee@[removed].]
You will know them by their garments [John Mayer <mayer@[removed]; ]
RE: OLAN SOULE ["randy story" <BYGEORGE@[removed]; ]
Long-Ago Newspaper Clippings ["Lois Culver" <lois@[removed]; ]
residuals [nicoll <nicoll@[removed]; ]
OFF TOPIC Laurel & Hardy ["Rodney w bowcock jr." <rodney-self]
Graphic Arlene Harris [Conrad Binyon <conradab@[removed]]
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 01:09:16 -0400
From: GEORGE WAGNER <gwagneroldtimeradio@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Re: Silent Stars on Radio
Let's not forget that Cecil B. DeMille
interviewed the one-and-only "Arab Death" herself,
Theda Bara (Cincinnati's own Theodosia Goodman) on a
mid-1930s LUX. Miss Bara announced her great comeback,
which never materialized. Her previous comeback, in
1926, had been at least partially successful.
People wishing to hear the voices of silent stars
can find a good number of them on late 1930s Republic
movie serials!
George Wagner
GWAGNEROLDTIMERADIO@[removed]
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 01:47:20 -0400
From: "Lois Culver" <lois@[removed];
To: "OTR Digest" <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Amari probably owns what he [removed]
Not necessarily. I asked Amari on his chat room not too long ago, if he
owned the rights to Straight Arrow. He said "Not yet". But he was selling
Straight Arrow shows.
Lois Culver
KWLK Radio (Mutual) Longview, WA 1941-44
KFI Radio (NBC) Los Angeles CA 1945-47, 50-53
Widow of Howard Culver, actor (Straight Arrow)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 10:01:14 -0400
From: "greg przywara" <orsonwelles3@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Identical scripts
I would like to know if the script used in the Theatre Guild on the Air
version of "Great Expectations" is the same one used for the Lux Theatre
version. I don't own the Lux version, but it seems awfully uncharacteristic
of Theatre Guild's highbrow nature to close their version of the Dickens
classic with the ending used in David Lean's famous 1946 film version.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 10:04:18 -0400
From: "Mike Kerezman" <philipmarlowe@[removed];
To: "Old Time Digest" <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Public Domain
Stephen A Kallis, Jr responds that my originally statement that regarding
trading shows is technically illegal by saying that
Not is a show is in public domain. Now I'll bet that in the beginnings
of the hobby there was a lot of illegal activity going on.
Mr. Amari kindly corrected me that RSI no longer controls I LOVE A MYSTERY
but it does in fact have a copyright owner.
I wish to point out that in a letter dated January 13, 1997 Mr. Amari
explained in part:
"ALL old-time radio shows fall under three catagories of copyright. 1)
Originally copyrighted at the time of creation and renewed ... which means
it is protected by copyright. 2) Originally copyrighted at the time of
creation and not renewed ... which means it has probably fallen into the
public domain and is free to be used by anyone for whatever they wish. 3)
Not copyrighted at the time of creation and is therefore protected by
"common-law" copyright. Number 3 is where the majority of old-time radio
falls under"
(I offer this quote only to summarize the catergories concisely.)
As this legal interpretation explains Public domain is awfully small
catergory then. Indeed, just from what I've been able to gather from
RSI public statements in the past in which some of the shows they controlled
were named, the vast majority of shows that I would want to own ,
are not Public domain. However, I am not about to BURN the tapes my Dad
purchased in the early 1970s (in good faith) before RSI came along. Nor
should my Dad have been expected to finances a trip to the Library of
Congress in Washington everytime he contemplated buying a cassette. I had a
sneaking suspcion that some of those that got involved in the hobby early on
want to shut it on everyone that comes after. Quite frankly I am sick of
this topic all [removed]
Perhaps much whats has been said regarding exclusive rights is true
notwithstanding the desecration of the spirit of competition.
Just Don't expect me to Stand up and Cheer.
Sincerely,
Mike Kerezman
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 10:04:16 -0400
From: Conrad Binyon <conradab@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Francis X. Busman
Harry Bartell <bartell@[removed]; says:
I don't know eactly what kind of billing Robert Fells refers
to but I worked frequently with two men who were big silent
stars: Francis X Bushman, the original star of Ben Hur, and
Herbert Rawilinson who was a top leading man in silents. They
appeared in many different roles on OTR, not necessarily as
stars.
I, too, worked with Francis X. Bushman, however I can't recall
Mr. Rawlinson. Mr. Bushman appeared often on "Mayor of the
Town" with a rich resounding voice. Of course at my age at the
time I had not seen his "Ben Hur" appearance as the villain
'Messala. Nor had I heard about his notable career and private
life. I only knew that he was a silent actor of fame, and had
driven that Ben Hur chariot with "gusto." I thought how
fortunate was the case his voice WAS so great, having heard about
how so many other silent star's voices didn't match their good
looks and therefore their careers waned. But the following link
explains the Louis B. Mayer incident which I remember Mr. Bushman
mentioning "his man" had been the one denying Louis B. access to
him on the set:
[removed]
When I met and worked with Francis X. Bushman he had a
statesmanlike air and I thought could have played a decent
Franklin Roosevelt.
CAB
--
conradab@[removed] (Conrad A. Binyon)
From the Home of the Stars who loved Ranches and Farms
Encino, California.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 10:04:14 -0400
From: Garpboy@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Re: Johnny Dollar and various actor
characterizations
To date, I've only known Bob Bailey as JD. Having just discovered the two
auditions (Powell and Mohr) and the Charles Russell characterizations, I
constantly comparing the performances. The Russell tenure seems to be muck
like the Bailey tenure; the voices sound similar (at least to me) and the
Russell performances seem to be a bit more comedic. They also incorporate
dialogue regarding other shows (Richard Diamond, Philip Marlow, Sam Spade).
Although there has been much discussion of this show over the years I missed
answers to the following question which I presume our more experienced
listening audience can readily answer:
What differentiated their respective performances and why did they leave the
show?
Regards to all (and thank you)
Gary
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 10:04:12 -0400
From: Udmacon@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Gambling's Back
You may recall that last Fall New York's WOR gave a 75th anniversary
"present" to John R. Gambling: a pink slip. This brought to an end "Rambling
With Gambling" that had been a Gotham instituton since John's grandfather,
John B. Gambling, put the show on WOR in April 1925 (seven months before the
start of the WSM Grand Ole Opry).
Anyhow, WABC has just hired John R; he's on the air weekday mornings from 9
to 11 [removed] EDST. Congratulations, John R.!
Bill Knowlton, "BLUEGRASS RAMBLE," WCNY-FM: Syracuse, Utica, Watertown NY
(since Jan. 1973). Sundays, 9 pm est: [removed]
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 10:04:10 -0400
From: JJJ445@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Owning the Master
Stephen A. Kallis writes:
<< It is complicated. But there is a simple way to look at this. If I find
a show in the attic that I somehow _know_ is the only [removed] >>
Many years ago I purchased some 16" discs that were recordings of some of the
big bands RCA had made at some recording studios in Hollywood. Some turned
out to be alternate takes and breakdowns to popular songs Artie Shaw had
recorded. What makes them compelling is the chatter between Shaw and his
sidemen plus hearing different instrumental solos and tempos, a few false
starts and some blown choruses. I took them to my friend, recording engineer
Wally Heider, to verify. In essence, he told me I had the master recordings
to these particular takes and it was quite common for the record companies to
toss all but the released versions of the songs and the best alternate takes.
He said it was slim to nil that back-up copies or recordings of what I had
existed elsewhere.
I find it amusing that I own the sole recordings - but BMG (RCA's present
owner) still owns the copyright to them - even though they tossed them years
ago and would have no way of capitalizing on their re-release without me
providing my masters.
I'm sure many of our OTR colleagues find themselves in precisely the same
situation - physically owning the only known master or copy to a particular
show - but not really "owning" it.
John Jensen
Federal Way, WA
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 10:04:08 -0400
From: Kubelski@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: The Longbranch
My recollection of nightlife in Dodge was that the Longbranch and the Texas
Trail were competitors. Kitty and Sam owned the Longbranch, until Sam
retired and Kitty bought out his share (I remember listening to that
episode). I'm not sure who owned the Texas Trail, but it sure didn't get
much business from Doc, Chester, Matt or anyone else with a recurring role on
the show, as all of the meet and greet scenes seemed to take place at the
Longbranch.
Sean Dougherty
kubelski@[removed]
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 10:09:04 -0400
From: Ben Ohmart <bloodbleeds@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Radio Spirits, yes
Someone asked if Radio Spirits pays royalties to heirs
for the shows they have rights to, and I can say YES
they do. At least they do to the person I know who is
owns the rights to a very big otr show. I don't want
to give his name, but I spoke with him last week about
it. RS has made him a very big offer for further
rights (don't know what), as RS is trying to buy up
all the big shows, he said. I know that's all vague,
but thought you Might like to know. :)
=====
Check out Fibber McGee's Scrapbook,
a new otr book! [removed]
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 10:42:30 -0400
From: OTRChris@[removed]
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Re: Sorry Wrong Number
In my last post I need to make a correction .I had stated :
"...lists Banquos chair as next weeks program and everything else is the same
ACCEPT
The version without the flaw has been obviously edited so as not to
[removed]"
I did actually mean EXCEPT rather than ACCEPT.
This has been pointed out to me by several people who I do want to thank . I
guess in the fury of typing out a quick response I didn't notice it. I have
always used this word correctly 'except' this one time . And to
do so so publicly : ( .
However, I do 'accept' and appreciate correction .
Thank You
-Chris
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 12:04:22 -0400
From: Udmacon@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Re: "Abie's Irish Rose"
When I first joined the Lambs Club in 1967, one of the nicest and most
welcoming members was Walter Kinsella, the Irish father in radio's "Abie's
Irish Rose." At that time Walter, recuperating from a stroke, lived at the
Lambs on West 44th St. and held court at the bar.
Earlier he had made--and spent--a fortune, usually playing the "dumb" Irish
policeman sidekick to some savvy detective like Martin Kane, Private Eye.
("Lord save us, boss; ye don't mean----!!")
I've heard an episode of "Abie" on WRVO-FM, Oswego.
When they gave Walter a "Lambaste" (roast) at the Club, some of show
business's greatest oldtimers turned up, and the occasion was the final
performance of Smith & Dale.
Walter Kinsella was a true gentleman and someone who went out of his way to
welcome the younger Lambs such as myself. May he rest in peace.
Bill Knowlton, "BLUEGRASS RAMBLE," WCNY-FM: Syracuse, Utica, Watertown NY
(since Jan. 1973). Sundays, 9 pm est: [removed]
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 12:04:20 -0400
From: William L Murtough <k2mfi@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Cigaret Commercials
There was some discussion about cigarette commercials. As I recall,it was
not an FCC ban but was an agreement amongst the broadcasters, probably by
the National Association of Broadcaster (NAB). The NAB was a powerful
organization!
Bill Murtough
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 12:04:18 -0400
From: William L Murtough <k2mfi@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Olan Soule
Although Olan did some announcing, I remember him as as an actor. At one
time he and Barbara Luddy were featured on "First Nighter", which is what
I most remember him for. Just before I returned to New York, I was the
engineer on a Sunday dramatic show fromCBS-Hollywood, which starred him
along with Barbara Luddy. What impressed me most that Olan had a new Ford
Estate station wagon(a "woody") in which we would go to lunch at
Nickodell's. I turned green with envy, and finally owned one after I
returned to New York several years later. Olan was a real nice guy, loved
by everyone who knew him.
Bill Murtough
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 12:04:17 -0400
From: "Doug Leary" <dleary@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: "Adverse Possession"
The idea of adverse possession, or "squatters rights," already applies to
copyrights and trademarks to some extent. If a company doesn't make some
sort of effort to identify and use a trademark, it can become "a household
word" and lose protection, or it can even be taken over by another person.
As a case in point, there is a rock band in San Francisco called The
Romulans who have successfully defended their trademark in court in spite of
the fact that Romulans have been aliens in the Star Trek universe for
decades. Apparently Paramount neglected to use the term for a number of
years, and thereby lost claim to the trademark.
The best rationale I can think of for a process of publicization is
cultural, not legalistic. When we take certain things into our lives, treat
them as our own for a long time and share them freely with others,
particularly songs and stories, we're doing something that was done for
centuries before anybody ever thought of the concept of a copyright.
Developing a sense of ownership of things that are dear is very natural.
Having your teddy bear taken away because somebody bought the rights to it
is unnatural. In my opinion it's a form of theft, or maybe I should call it
"cultural hoarding."
So in the case of OTR, although rights holders do have the law on their
side, it kind of makes me sick to keep reading these hard-line legalistic
tirades, as if law automatically equals morality. Law is a system that
attempts to codify morality, and the system can have flaws. I would say
something is wrong with a system that maintains copyrights for such an
inordinately long time, when (in the case of OTR) the general public has
been "walking across the field" for so many years.
The whole copyright issue is sad and ridiculous in the context of material
this old, and I swear on a pile of Kryptonite that this will be my last
posting on this subject.
Doug Leary
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 14:32:23 -0400
From: knight555@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: stars on radio
Does anyone know if "[removed]" with Cary Grant was every done for radio?
(maybe Lux?) or what shows Errol Flynn and James Cagney did for radio? I
have a record of Flynn doing "The Three Musketeers" but it doesn't give any
information regarding the broadcast or sponsor, if there was one. I think
someplace I have a recording of "[removed]" , but did he do "Seahawk" for
radio? I just heard "Bengal Lancers".
As for Cagney and Bogart, there are several fans here, so any info about
shows they did would be welcome. Thanks in advance. MJS
[removed] Is the recording of "the Uninvited" as scary as the movie? we're
afraid to listen to it at night ;o) "
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 16:38:54 -0400
From: "Lee, Steve (DEOC)" <slee@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Re: Olan Soule
Olan Soule also played (very successfully) opposite Barbara Luddy on "The
First Nighter Program" from November '43 through September '53. He had
replaced Les Tremayne (6/'37 to 11/'43), who had taken over from Don Ameche
(11/'30 to 6/'37). I always enjoy listening to Barbara Luddy's voice. She
always sounds pleasant, fresh, and upbeat in a "girl next door" sort of way.
Steven Lee
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 16:57:06 -0400
From: John Mayer <mayer@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: You will know them by their garments of Lincoln
Green
"Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@[removed]; observed:
Now I'll bet that in the beginnings of the hobby there was a lot of illegal
activity going on. Not to excuse it, but I'll also bet that most of the
illegal stuff was done in all innocence, by people who either didn't know
about
[removed]
And without those early lawbreakers, ironically, there would be precious little
OTR for Amari to corner the market on. I'd be curious to know how much of the
OTR
shows that remain to us exist, not because of the foresight of some
corporation,
but because of renegades, motivated by love of the medium rather than by
profit,
who made unauthorized copies of broadcasts. Perhaps some of these miscreants
even
knowingly violated copyright laws and broadcast contracts, at some degree of
personal risk, to save some piece of broadcast history for posterity. In all
honesty, don't most of us wish there had been still more criminal activity in
the
early days of radio, that legions of scofflaws had preserved the early _Amos
and
Andy_ broadcasts, the missing _I Love a Mystery_ episodes, and scores of other
shows that are known to us only through wistful descriptions?
I respect the principle of intellectual property; I have, after all, made my
living (meager though it has been) from artwork. Only copyright laws keep
everything I do from ending up as freely downloadable clip art. However, all of
us instinctively recognize that some "theft" is worse than others.
Corporations and their copyright lawyers will disagree; their sentiments have
been expressed by Anatole France who said something to this effect: "The law,
in
its majestic equality, prohibits the rich and the poor alike from stealing
bread,
from begging in the streets, and from sleeping under bridges."
As human beings we instinctively recognize that some lies are worse than
others,
that it is worse to lie to your mother than to lie to Nazis when they come to
your door in search of refugees. In fact, we have a moral imperative, in the
latter case, to ignore the law of the land and our usual aversion to untruth.
We
know intuitively, and the law, in fact, recognizes, that some killings are
worse
than others: that killing in self-defense is not as bad as killing in a rage
which, in turn, is not as bad as killing with cold-blooded premeditation.
And it is worse to copy radio shows when you are denying royalties to a writer
sorely in need of income than to illicitly copy shows that some clever
entrepreneur has bought up, possibly at giveaway prices, from aging copyright
holders who have not become aware of the new possibilities technology has
created
in popularizing the genre. Especially is this true if the entrepreneur has used
questionable methods to discourage others from competing with him, or even from
giving away old shows out of affection for the medium and their fellow fans. Or
if he doesn't bother to make the less popular shows he controls available,
figuring the buying public will take what they can get, thus saving
distribution
costs on low-volume products.
In such cases, the OTR miscreants remind us less of Blackbeard than of Robin
Hood. And the Sherwood Forest of the Internet is vast indeed, and the Sheriff
of
Nottingham will be hard pressed to run to ground all the merry OTR outlaws.
_____________________
"Vince Long" <vlongbsh@[removed]; said:
There is a good chance that a court will tell you that you have to let folks
cross your property as they have because you've lost your rights through
"adverse possession."
FWIW, and INL (I'm No Lawyer), I think you will still retain ownership of the
path, but you will have granted public right of way to it by inaction. Some
property owners, I'm told, close off such paths one day a year to avoid this
development. Adverse possession is granted to persons who have actually, in
some
way, occupied your land for a period of time, and this law varies from state to
state; I believe some states do not recognize Adverse Possession at all. What
analogies may exist to copyright law I don't know, but the complexities of this
issue as it pertains to OTR suggest it's time for some new legislation on the
matter; hopefully, the next time around, the interests of the public as well as
those of big business will be considered.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 16:57:09 -0400
From: "randy story" <BYGEORGE@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: RE: OLAN SOULE
Hi folks.
If memory serves, I have seen Olan Soule in several episodes on TV's HAVE
GUN WILL TRAVEL as the desk clerk at the Hotel Carlton(he is a sight in
those sideburns he wore as that character):)
As a youngster, I also listened to Mr. Soule as Batman on THE SUPER FRIENDS
HOUR on ABC Saturdays. He was used in a number vocal characterizations for
that [removed] good guys and bad guys.
My favorite TV performance of his, other than his work in THE ANDY GRIFFITH
SHOW, was an episode of LOU GRANT wherein he portrayed the father of a boy
who was shot by an elderly neighbor. He was a pal of 'Lou' and I think he
appeared several other times in that wonderful show.
As for Mr. Soule's radio work, it seems I hear him in so many things that I
cannot think of a specific episode of any one series(other FIRST NIGHTER) in
which he stands out.
He was part of that magnificent breed of actors known as the "character"
[removed] sorely lack those in today's entertainment world it seems.
To paraphrase 'Norma Desmond'(Gloria Swanson) in SUNSET BOULEVARD: "They had
voices then."
And boy did they know how to use them!
Thanks,
Randy Story
West Plains, MO
[removed]
Thanks to everyone who commented via private email as to the identity of Pat
Friday.
[removed]
Liz [removed] am a charter member of your fan club whenever it gets off the
ground. You are a brilliant commentator on this board and I always enjoy
what you have to say.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 17:20:31 -0400
From: "Lois Culver" <lois@[removed];
To: "OTR Digest" <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Long-Ago Newspaper Clippings
San Francisco, Monday, April 28, 1941
Radio News - by Tom Tyrell
"SAGA of SUCCESS"
The story of Raphael Weill and his rise to civic and business leadership
will be dramatized this Sunday night at 6:30 over [removed] cast, all
reliable NBC troupers, will include Jack Moyles, Everett Glass, Howard
Culver, Ed MacDonald, Ivan Green, Grace Holtby and Monty Margetts. Organ
background by Floyd (sic) Wright; script by Arnold Marquis.
(Floyd Wright should be George Wright - lhc)
Lois Culver
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 18:06:28 -0400
From: nicoll <nicoll@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: residuals
It would be interesting to know if Hal [removed] any of the other OTR
participants on the [removed] received any kind of payment for their
part in these tapes. Or did they ever explore the possibility that they
too were "entitled."
Will Nicoll
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 21:01:37 -0400
From: "Rodney w bowcock jr." <rodney-selfhelpbikeco@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: OFF TOPIC Laurel & Hardy
If there are any classic film fans on this list that would be interested
in helping me complete my Laurel & Hardy collection by trading copies of
some of their films for some of mine, please e-mail me for a list of what
I've got and a list of what I need.
Thanks,
Rodney Bowcock
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 21:50:56 -0400
From: Conrad Binyon <conradab@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Graphic Arlene Harris
[removed]@[removed] wrote:
I was idly perusing through my notes and stuff when it occurred
to me that I hadn't yet posted my picture of Arlene Harris along
with the blurb I could generate about her. Her name came up at
the beginning of the month and there were several posts about her
which is when I decided to scan the picture and put it up into
the digest. So here it is:
[removed]
CAB
--
conradab@[removed] (Conrad A. Binyon)
From the Home of the Stars who loved Ranches and Farms
Encino, California.
--------------------------------
End of [removed] Digest V01 Issue #199
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