------------------------------
The Old-Time Radio Digest!
Volume 2002 : Issue 194
A Part of the [removed]!
ISSN: 1533-9289
Today's Topics:
Honeymooners on Radio [ "Ian Grieve" <ian@[removed] ]
"Further Details with Robert Trout" [ Charlie Summers <charlie@[removed] ]
Finely Cured Hams [ wich2@[removed] ]
Mp3 Players [ "" <cooldown3@[removed]; ]
Ebay, OTR, And Away We [removed] [ "Ian Grieve" <ian@[removed] ]
TONY WONS REVISITED [ "David W. Phaneuf" <otr_fan@[removed] ]
Old ads and their effectiveness [ "Nemesis@[removed]" <nemesis@[removed] ]
Minidisc format [ ilamfan@[removed] ]
OTR on MP3 [ Neal Ellis <bstenor@[removed]; ]
Most Distinctive Radio Voice [ ilamfan@[removed] ]
Re: Economics of Preservation [ "Eric N. Wilson" <enwilson@[removed] ]
Dragnet Christmas [ danhughes@[removed] ]
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 21:22:24 -0400
From: "Ian Grieve" <ian@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Honeymooners on Radio
In issue 191 Harlan Zinck wrote about a collector paying $[removed] for some
'one off' transcriptions.
Harlan I understand your viewpoint, I just don't share it. There is a
difference between owning the 'one off' transcriptions, selling the 'one
off' transcriptions and buying 'one off' transcriptions as an investment.
Then there are the contents.
As a person who does buy transcriptions, books, magazines, ephemra, badges,
LPs, etc that are otr related, I make copies of them available, as do a lot
of people I know around the world. I still own the transcriptions, badges
LPs etc, but others get to share the shows, have scans of relevant articles,
pics of old badges etc.
I still get to keep the originals and enjoy the 'ownership' of them. I
didn't buy them as a dollar investment and I am not trying to sell them so I
see no monetary loss in running off copies of the shows for others to enjoy.
I am no restoration expert, so I make an achival copy for later restoration
by 'experts'. What I share is an mp3 only slightly cleaned (hey they are
getting it for free :)) No comparison to the original or to what can be
achieved by proper restoration. This is where I see a big difference
between 'real collectors/Dealers/restorers and mp3 listeners/collectors,
they are totally different 'markets'.
I started in this hobby downloading mp3's. Sure I have always enjoyed the
shows and recently while packing up my household effects to move houses, I
found newspaper clippings for books and shows that interested me 30 years
ago, that I now have in my collection that I have found in the last year or
two. I had no recollection of clipping the articles (I guess old age does
that to you eh Jug?) but it shows me the interest was there 30 years ago.
People like me who have evolved from just downloading mp3 to buying the
originals and the memorabilia associated with them are going to be the
mainstay of the hobby in the future (don't groan). Here in Australia we have
a very strong group of collectors who are dedicating their time and efforts
to a database of shows, actors, website etc. We are also buying Australian
otr and memorabilia and we are putting these efforts into preservation and
education for future generations, not for a quick buck here and now. We have
merged the really interested mp3 people with the serious collectors and
found so many shared interests and we are all learning from each other. I
am a long way from matching collections with Jamie and craig and others, but
I also have something to offer them. I am an up and coming collector with a
thirst for buying Australian otr related items. They immediately have a
market for their duplicates which then gives them the cash to continue to
increase their collections. So far there are no jealousy or backstabbing,
we are all working for a common goal and the group is growing.
Harlan in your example, you cannot compare a $[removed] cd of mp3 containing a
couple of uncirculated eps with the $[removed] original transcriptions, they
are two different things. The person with the $[removed] Transcriptions was
never going to recover his money from the mp3 community anyway, so his
target market should still be there.
I agree that there is a lot of mp3 ers out there clammering for everything
to be free, but those same people are so hungry for new material that they
will find it. In your example the person who broke trust and made copies
and circulated them despite being trusted and being requested not to, is the
villian in the story. Fortunately I have never been asked to withhold shows
from circulation, I would honour such a request, but I would continually
argue against it. Possibly why I have not been asked :)
Don't treat the mp3 collectors as 'the enemy' they are just 'untrained
troops' the internet has changed the way things happen in the hobby and we
can't hold the 'newbies' responsible for that.
I enjoy reading Elizabeth's explanations and information on the how and why,
I have learnt so much. I admire that Elizabeth also takes the time on the
[removed] newsgroup to answer questions, provide information etc.
Amoungst the arguements on sexuality, everything should be free, spam and
other otr related topics, is Elizabeth always answering questions and giving
reasons. Guess what? The 'mp3 everything should be free community' listen
and learn and ask even more questions. So people can complain about the mp3
community (not aiming that at you Harlan or any individual) or they can
educate them as Elizabeth does. Sure 80% will not change but 20% may and
may then move on to keeping the wheels turning here in future years.
Ian
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 21:22:32 -0400
From: Charlie Summers <charlie@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: "Further Details with Robert Trout"
Folks;
Has anyone else heard this two-hour program from NPR? KUOW Seattle, my
"local" NPR station (yes, I live on the east coast, but KUOW runs "Wait,
Wait, Don't Tell me!" so _they_ are my local station and I'm sticking to it)
ran it last Monday afternoon, and I finally got the chance to listen to it.
I'm interested to know what other wiser people thought of this "audio
biography."
Charlie
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 21:56:52 -0400
From: wich2@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Finely Cured Hams
From: Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed];
One of his more interesting credits is an obscure early-forties
WGN-based sitcom called "The Great Gunns," in which he played the
patriarch of a family of temperamental stage actors.
Any of you folks have copies of same? I've looked for years, as it is rumored
to have a Barrymore-ian [removed]
Best,
-Craig Wichman
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 21:56:54 -0400
From: "" <cooldown3@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Mp3 Players
I have been waiting for the price on this Mp3 player to fall a bit more. It
is essentially a 20 gig portable hard drive with many features.
The ARCHOS Jukebox Recorder product line is the first, portable MP3 recorder
and USB Hard Drive, which gives you real-time, on-the-fly recording of up to
20,000 (JB Recorder 20) minutes of top quality music in MP3 format.
Jukebox MP3 Recorder and Player Products
You can record from any analog or digital sources at bit-rates up to 160
kBps and can port your recordings back to the PC without any specialized
software. It also doubles as an extremely portable USB [removed] hard drive (USB
[removed] on JB Recorder 20) for PC or Mac laptops or desktop computers, and you
are able to store your data and photos at the same time.
They are at this link
[removed][removed]
I am absolutely not connected with these people in any way and still saving
from my social security checks to get one,LOL.
Patrick
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 22:38:28 -0400
From: "Ian Grieve" <ian@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Ebay, OTR, And Away We [removed]
In issue 193 Shawn mentioned:
I had the same issue come up on the Lum & Abner set I
produced. I heard later that some people got upset about the price, but I
would hope when I explained what I had invested in it, that they would have
some understanding.
Shawn, it wasn't so much the price, around $[removed] if I remember correctly,
but the contract you wanted the buyers to sign that shocked people. If the
people that had supplied you with the episodes had asked you to sign such a
contract, then you would not have been able to make your collection
available at any price. Yes, I understand that e-bay sellers had burned you
previously and some 'everything should be free' newsgroup people, but to
have such a contract for buyers to sign is what caused the ripples of shock.
The pricing was secondary and you explained that well. But as in the case
with most of those things, the ripples lasted about 2 weeks and the pond has
become still once again.
Again with the price, nobody I know said it was outrageous, most, including
me, said that paying such a price would end in divorce, so many marriages
were saved by otr fans showing restraint and keeping their wallets closed.
(it was tempting except for the contract, that was the clincher that killed
the deal)
Ian Grieve
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 22:39:23 -0400
From: "David W. Phaneuf" <otr_fan@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: TONY WONS REVISITED
Well, let me say first of all that I was sure the folks here at the OTR
Digest wouldn't let me down. As always, I am amazed at the wealth of
knowledge that is contained in the readership of this digest. More
information than I ever dreamed came forth regarding Tony Wons, not just from
those who posted in the digest itself, but also from the many who emailed me
personally. Thank you so [removed] you have made this one who was to me an
Unknown, obscure personality, live again. From descriptions of his voice or
stature, to his nervous idiosyncracies, to his values and varied involvements
in radio, you all have fleshed him out.
Tony Wons truly came as a surprise for me. As one who has hobbied in OTR for
more than 20 years to greater and lesser extents, I felt my knowledge of
personalities was at least passable -- even if I did not know much about
them, I had at least heard of them (that was my thinking). Then came this
Tony Wons. And once again I am reminded just how paltry my knowledge of OTR
really is, how surface level only are my [removed] especially when
others of you come forth with so much information. Again, I am humbled,
again I am awed. :)
Well, thanks to everyone for enlightening me!
--Dave Phaneuf
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 22:39:28 -0400
From: "Nemesis@[removed]" <nemesis@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Old ads and their effectiveness
I was suddenly buying Jello and not knowing why when I realized I had been
hearing the ads on the Jack Benny shows being played on the KNX1070
[removed](KNX was amused when I told them). However, I am NOT tempted by the
program's ads for [removed]
Linda T.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 22:57:31 -0400
From: ilamfan@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Minidisc format
Time for me to spout off a bit about minidisc -
I was a complete devotee of the MD format until I
got my first computer and got involved with mp3. The
mp3 format is the best thing that could have happened to
our neat little niche of a hobby, allowing lots of shows
on a singe disc, greater ease of trading, super low cost
per show, etc.
H O W E V E R, not all mp3 portables will play all
mp3 files (all standard MD's play in all MD players).
Very few mp3 players display the entire filename of the
mp3, sometimes only a track number (I believe all of the
MD players display the title of the track along with
track number). Even extremely high quality mp3 encodes
such as 192kbts (compressing the original audio by about
a 7:1 ratio) are not as high quality as the standard MD
encodes (Sony ATRAC is about 5:1 ratio).
This is information pertaining to standard audio on
a minidisc. I know next to nothing about mp3 on
minidisc. There is no reason why it couldn't be done -
the question would be - why? Since cdr blanks can be
bought in bulk for as little as ten cents each, and MD
blanks are still more than a buck apeice (if you can
find them that cheap!), and a cd holds so much more
info, why go MD?
I still think that MD is incredible, just not the
best choice for listening to OTR. I continually use my
MD recorders. There is no smaller, ultra-high quality
choice. And the price is right. Any on-location
recording is a snap with my portable MD and stereo
microphone. Editing those recordings later is also a
snap.
There is no mp3 choice for recording, except at
your computer. Live mp3 recording out in the real world
is out of the question so far. Editing mp3 files after
they are encoded is often a crapshoot. And I don't
expect any portable mp3 recorders, either - it takes mp3
from a "data transfer method" and changes it to
a "recording format" which the RIAA would probably never
allow.
So it all comes down to what your intentions are.
There is no "best" choice, save that which fits your
requirements the best. If cost-per-megabyte is
paramount, then a cd-burner and a portable mp3cd is the
way to go. If small unit size is a major issue, then a
memory-based player would be best (but costs much
more). If live recording is in the works, mp3 is OUT.
Go minidisc. Better audio than ANY cassette deck and
most any mp3, no "wow" or "flutter", also incredibly
durable.
Now that I think of it, if LENGTH of recording time
is important, don't forget that great stereo Hi-Fi VCR
in the living room - you can record up to 6 hours of
nearly-digital quality audio, there. And you don't even
have to be home, just program it to record at whatever
date and time.
There you go.
Stephen Jansen
--
Old Time Radio never dies - it
just changes formats!
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 22:58:29 -0400
From: Neal Ellis <bstenor@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: OTR on MP3
I can't understand why someone in this day and age would want otr on
MP3. CDR's are cheap enough (usually about .15 per disc on sale) and
they can give you full cd quality. Wow that's about .07 per half hour
show.
The same folks who are now collecting on MP3 must have had relatives
who recorded 4 track 1 7/8 on .05 mil tape. Have you noticed that
there are not many of these still being playing in homes today?
On another issue, I have to agree with Elizabeth. I have been in this
hobby for a little over 30 years. There have always been those who
sought to get material cheap or trade around material that was not
theirs to trade. It just slowed down the process because those working
to put out the material got frustrated as they were taking a monetary
beating because of this widespread unethical distribution of the
material. In this day and age, we have modern electronic wonders, we
can move the material faster and more people are getting the hang of
using the net. The result is Katie bar the door. If someone burps
it's on mp3 (most likely sampled at 8, 12 or maybe even 16) these
days. It is a shame that years from now all that will be left of otr
is a bunch of digital artifacts that sound like it's coming from a
distant short wave station.
C'mon [removed] spend the .15 record .wav or audio cd files and don't
trade what is not yours IN ANY FORMAT. I personally like to see new
finds of material. So, in [removed] Unless you feel you can find
material and get it out to collectors and have all the education and
backing to do digital restoration don't blow it for us all.
Neal Ellis
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 23:29:39 -0400
From: ilamfan@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Most Distinctive Radio Voice
For the most distinctive radio voice, I'd have to
vote for Ken Nordine - not really OLD OTR (as far as I
know), but since the 1950's [removed] voice!
The TV-heads might remember him as the voice on the
1960's animated Levi's/Gap blue jeans commercial
(adapted from his "Flibberty-Gib" routine, as I recall).
I'm pretty sure he's still active on radio today,
along with several newer cd releases, and some live
vocal happenings. Plus, of course, his old "Word Jazz"
[removed]
When you hear his unmistakeable voice, no character
comes to mind. Just - Ken Nordine. Now THAT'S
distinctive.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 23:30:07 -0400
From: "Eric N. Wilson" <enwilson@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Re: Economics of Preservation
Note to Christopher Werner: apparently, somebody at Cornell University was
thinking along the same lines you
were. [removed] has full image scans of lots and
lots of 19th century magazines (including Harper's), and some of it is
quite amazing, if slightly off-topic for this digest. But you DO find some
things slightly ON-topic:
[removed];coll=moa&view=50&root=%2Fmoa%2Fnora%2Fnora0168%2F&tif=[removed];cite=http%3A%2F%[removed]
: Origin and Development of Wireless Telegraphy, By Marconi (North American
Review, 1899)
Hope this helps. :)
--Eric Wilson
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 09:51:49 -0400
From: danhughes@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Dragnet Christmas
Derek says the boy in the 50's Baby Jesus Dragnet episode was Billy Gray.
I don't think so. I have the video, and I remember the boy as a Mexican
boy about 8 years old. Billy Gray was born in 1938, and Dragnet didn't
hit TV until 1952, so he would have been at least 14. Derek?
---Dan
--------------------------------
End of [removed] Digest V2002 Issue #194
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