------------------------------
The Old-Time Radio Digest!
Volume 2002 : Issue 321
A Part of the [removed]!
ISSN: 1533-9289
Today's Topics:
more Godfrey [ Jer51473@[removed] ]
Welles and McCarthy [ "Martin Grams, Jr." <mmargrajr@hotm ]
Woolcott's WOTW Quote [ Bob Fells <rfells@[removed]; ]
Father Coughlin [ ClifSr@[removed] ]
I Love a Mystery [ "Ken Kay" <kenwyn@[removed]; ]
Re: Bergen and McCarthy [ GOpp@[removed] ]
Arthur Godfrey "dumping" Chesterfiel [ leemunsick@[removed] ]
Re:John Gallagher [ Fred Berney <berney@[removed]; ]
Eddy vs Welles - Judge for Yourself [ KENPILETIC@[removed] ]
Keep It Going [ "james hunt" <jameshunt@[removed] ]
Re: australian OTR question [ StevenL751@[removed] ]
re: LONE RANGER [ ArtsMilitaria@[removed] (Arthur Fun ]
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 10:50:30 -0400
From: Jer51473@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: more Godfrey
It seems unfair to indicate or say that godfrey, if on the air today, would
be like howard stern. There is nothing out there, imo, that even comes close
to a similarity. Arthur was a patriotic american that respected the rights of
others and loved the industry. Now his personality off the air may or may not
have been this or that, i could care less. As far as i know he was of at
least acceptable moral character and sensitivity. People forget his very
moving live description of FDRs funeral procession when he was in tears. I
could be wrong, but i cant imagine stern duplicating such. The comparison is
unfair because we know how stern has handled the uncensored freedom of the
media, but there is no way to know how any of yesterdays performers would
react to such "uncensorship". I would think that their lifestyles and
upbringing, which was probably in most cases much different from sterns,
would make a big difference in the degree to which they would censor
themselves. Stern does what he does and we all know there is no debate as to
whether he did or didnt, but why should someone that has done nothing even
close to has actions in public, be compared?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 10:51:34 -0400
From: "Martin Grams, Jr." <mmargrajr@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Welles and McCarthy
I seem to recall reading in a Welles Biography that he received a telegram
from somebody referring to the fact that the audience was tuned into one 'dummy'
and then tuned into Welles thus two 'dummies' caused the whole darn ruckus.
Does anyone remember the exact words of that telegram and who sent it?
If I am not mistaken, is was Alexander Woollcott who sent the telegram:
"It just goes to show you, my beamish boy, that while all the intelligent
people were listening to a dummy, all the dummies were listening to you."
or to something of that effect.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 10:53:34 -0400
From: Bob Fells <rfells@[removed];
To: Old Time Radio <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Woolcott's WOTW Quote
To answer an inquiry about the "dummy" quote and Orson Welles' War of
the World broadcast, it was critic and wit Alexander Woolcott who wrote
to Mr. Welles with the observation. Mr. Woolcott said that on the
fateful night of the broadcast, October 30, 1938, "all the intelligent
people were listening to a dummy (a reference to Charlie McCarthy) and
all the dummies were listening to you."
Alexander Woolcott has another distinction in regard to OTR - he
literally died on the air during a broadcast in January 1943. Stated
more accurately, he was stricken during the broadcast and rushed to a
hospital where shortly thereafter he died from the multiple effects of a
stroke and a heart attack.
Bob Fells
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 10:51:54 -0400
From: ClifSr@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Father Coughlin
The infamous Father Coughlin has already been extensively discussed here.
But I don't recall seeing much about the art deco church he established in
1925, the Shrine of the Little Flower in Royal Oak, Michigan, North of
Detroit. As a kid in the 40's I remember our annual shopping trip to Royal
Oak when my dad would always point out Father Coughlin's church as we went
by it. It was a famous landmark.
That's where the controverisal priest did his broadcasts. It has
apparently become somewhat of a tourist attraction. Enter "Shrine of the
Little Flower" into any search engine and you will find as much as you will
ever want to know about it, including a virtual tour.
Clif Martin
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 11:08:25 -0400
From: "Ken Kay" <kenwyn@[removed];
To: "OldRadio Mailing Lists" <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: I Love a Mystery
I just listened to the 20 episodes of I Love A Mystery's "The Fear That
Creeps Like A Cat". I noticed that not once did they ever mention who
played Reggie. At the end of episode 20 they announced the entire cast
including Les Tremaine as Jack Packard and Tony Clay as Doc but never who
Reggie was played by. Does anyone know why this is omitted?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 12:03:56 -0400
From: GOpp@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Re: Bergen and McCarthy
As poor a ventriloquest as Edgar Bergen was, he created magic with his
characters. Once when Bergen was doing a tv appearance, as he would
converse with Charlie, his voice was clear as a bell while Charlie was quite
muffled. This caused a lot of confusion in the booth until they realized
that the boom man was turning the mic and pointing it at Charlie instead of
Bergen each time that Charlie "spoke." This really brings home how people
got caught up with the fantasy and regarded Charlie as being a real person
instead of a dummy manipulated by a ventriloquest.
Tom Mason
Even Bergen's radio writers sometimes got caught up. On on occasion in
1938, long before the advent of tape recorders, they wrote a sketch that
ended with Bergen, Charlie McCarthy, and Mortimer Snerd joining together
in three-part harmony! They were so used to writing for the three of
them as distinct characters that the impossibility of this feat simply
didn't occur to them. Nor did it occur to anyone who read the first two
revisions of the script, including Bergen! It wasn't until rehearsal,
when Bergen, with Charlie on one knee and Mortimer on the other, opened
his mouth (and their mouths) to sing, that it suddenly dawned on everyone
that even Bergen wasn't THAT talented.
- Gregg Oppenheimer
[removed]
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 12:10:25 -0400
From: leemunsick@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Arthur Godfrey "dumping" Chesterfield?
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain
I am indebted to the contributions of Cope Robinson (what a great name for
somebody involved in high-level corporate activities and marketing!),
sharing from his background with Liggett & Myers. Some of his
recollections to me differ from memories of others, including another
official of the company, who was involved in Chesterfield's marketing
programs, and thus with Arthur Godfrey. This does not mean that any are
wrong; different people knew and remember differently. We must remember
here that we are all dealing with long-time recollections. Before putting
out my book, I shall be consulting many reams of notes, correspondence,
print-outs and the like for exact quotations, citations, etc.
To answer Mr. Robinson's query about the end of the Chesterfield era on the
Godfrey programs, I personally recall watching what happened on the air,
although I do not know what went on behind the scenes. I would like to.
At the height of his enormous popularity on radio and television in the
1950s, Arthur Godfrey was diagnosed with lung cancer. One lung was
removed, but the surgeons discovered another cancer wrapped around his
aorta. They sewed him up and told him to go home and settle his affairs,
and enjoy what little time he had left.
As he had done 20 years earlier after a horrendous auto crash left him with
dozens of fractures and pain for the rest of his life, Mr. Godfrey
typically ignored them and went on his way. There was the use of radiation
and chemotherapy. This I learned years afterward, and it surprised me, as
I noticed that gorgeous head of auburn hair through the period. One
physician told me that Mr. Godfrey had an excellent guy taking care of his
hair so it didn't show the ravages of treatment.
Years later, I've been told, it was realized the levels in those years were
insufficient to have much effect against cancer. The side effects on the
patient were so horrible that the specialists refrained from heavier
doses. This was accomplished later with much-improved drugs, and pinpoint
radiation treatments that fine-focused on the malignancy. Despite the
gloomy outlook for someone with his affliction, Mr. Godfrey lived for
another three decades. He succumbed a few months shy of his 80th birthday
not to cancer, but to emphysema. Apparently, the cancers just went
away. Rare, but I am told it happens.
Arthur Godfrey had been identified with advertising tobacco products for
years. Early on in Washington, he did commercials for Cremo Cigars. I
recently was sent a series of his morning CBS network shows from 1946, in
one of which he implied to Janette Davis that he was then smoking Camels.
Not long after, of course, Liggett & Myers signed on as sponsor, and an era
began. The names Chesterfield and Arthur Godfrey became practically
synonymous, the same as with Lipton Tea, the two particularly outstanding
out of a very long list of sponsors including (only in very small part)
aperitif, appliances, automobiles, cake, cranberry juice, detergents,
disinfectant, flour, gasoline, glass cleaner, mouth wash, orange juice,
shampoo, and through the alphabet to toys and beyond.
People connected with Chesterfield have told me that he took their brand
from one of the smallest in sales to one of the biggest. Godfrey himself,
not the sponsor or its agency, came up with the idea and the line "Buy 'em
by the carton". It was then included in virtually all Chesterfield
advertising, and became commonplace among smokers.
I was also told that results from the Godfrey spotlight for Chesterfields
was higher than all the other stars which they sponsored across all the
networks. Remarkable, as that stable included among others -- reading
alphabetically left to right, Perry Como, Bing Crosby, Bob Hope, Jo
Stafford, and Jack Webb and his popular "Dragnet" programs.
An entire advertising campaign in broadcast and print media was based on
the slogan, "Always Buy Chesterfield", with the leading initials tied to
Arthur Godfrey, Bing Crosby, and Perry Como.
Thanks to one Chesterfield marketing official, I was given a crash course
in the remarkable lengths to which cigarette companies went with market
research, to determine just what activities sold the most cigarettes, and
why. That's the bottom line, after all.
This market research of course did not identify the backer. One anonymous
survey asked among other queries, if people smoked, what brand, how much,
and why. One respondent said that nobody in the house smoked, but they
were loyal listeners to Arthur Godfrey, and "bought 'em by the carton"
every week, to put their money where their support was. They gave the
cigarettes away to friends. Others said they switched brands to
Chesterfields because they sponsored Mr. Godfrey. They so enjoyed the
Godfrey programs and his persona.
It is not by coincidence that the 50s saw a rash of "other Godfreys" in the
person of Garry Moore, Robert Q. Lewis and the like. Many at one time were
associated with the Godfrey programs, and had somewhat similar
personalities and the relaxed, folksy approach to broadcasting. It's also
not happenstance that they all were sponsored by cigarette brands.
This reasoning of listener loyalty to long-term program backers should come
as no surprise to old time broadcasting fans, who still positively recall
sponsorships from a half-century or more ago, and continue to use the
products advertised on their favorite programs. Ask how many boxing fans
still use Mennen products, or how many Jack Benny listeners enjoy Jell-O or
Lucky Strikes to this day.
Not a smoker myself, I wonder how Arthur Godfrey/Jack Benny fans solved
that problem. Or kids listening to favorite programs sponsored by
competing gelatin/pudding companies, let alone cereals! Alternating
weeks? Must have driven the shopping mothers nuts. It's a shame that
advertisers have abandoned such loyalty today, except perhaps in auto
racing, which seems to attract the most insane zealots.
After the cancer situation, his physicians convinced Mr. Godfrey that he
had to stop smoking. Unfortunately, he only went part way; he was often
seen in public smoking either a cigar or a pipe, including on one of his
many TV Guide covers (more than anyone else except Lucille Ball, who had a
few more). IMHO, had he quit tobacco altogether, his death may well have
been delayed for some years, and been far less horrible. I've known a
couple of people who died of emphysema. It is horrible, like drowning
constantly, always difficulty breathing, and every inhale painful. One was
Garry Mooore, who had to cut off our conversation when I heard him
literally running out of breath. He and Mr. Godfrey spent their last
months tethered to oxygen bottles. Both had been heavy smokers. By the
way, I was present in his audience after his show ended for the day, when
Garry Moore and Durward Kirby did some test commercials for a proposed
cigarette [removed] believe it was Cavaliers. When I mentioned this to
him years later, Mr. Moore blurted out, "Right! They were the worst
tasting cigarettes I'd ever smoked in my life. Couldn't smoke them! I had
to go around all the time with my own brand in their package".
Mr. Godfrey's doctors convinced him that he could do a great public service
by going public, and conducting his own personal anti-smoking campaign, at
least relating to cigarettes. This he did, from PSAs to an anti-smoking
book called, if memory serves, "Why smoke?" which was really essays on why
not. The doctors and the Damon Runyon and American Cancer societies
credited him with probably saving many lives by urging people to get
checked out for cancer and good health.
In time, Mr. Godfrey returned to his popular Wednesday night TV-only
variety show, sponsored for years by Chesterfield. I say "TV only",
because for long periods of time, the morning "Arthur Godfrey Time" and
weekly "Arthur Godfrey and His Talent Scouts" programs were simulcast. On
what I believe was his first Wednesday night back, he came on stage
carrying a cigarette. I don't believe he was smoking, just carrying. He
gestured with it, and spoke to the camera something like, "You see
this? You know I've been smoking these for years. You also know that I am
recovering from an operation for lung cancer. I want to thank all of you
who sent so many wonderful cards and letters and prayed for me. I
appreciate it more than I can say".
He went on to add that he had no animosity or hard feelings toward
Chesterfield. Language like, "They and Liggett & Myers have been very good
to me. But I can not continue in good conscience to urge people to smoke,
and that means any brand. Don't do it. If you do, stop. Don't start. I
wish my friends at Chesterfield the best, but I can no longer represent
them or any tobacco product". Having said that, he tossed the
cigarette. That was that.
Chesterfield's place as sponsor immediately had been taken by a new
sponsor, as happened over his career every time one sponsor left for
whatever reason. Then there were occasions when Mr. Godfrey didn't want to
lose a particular sponsor. So he triggered a sudden listener frenzy of
purchasing that particular product, and the sponsor changed reconsidered
and remained. When he left the air in 1972 as the very last radio network
entertainment program, there were still sponsors lined up eager to be
represented by Arthur Godfrey on his program.
Cope Robinson, having been "inside" at L&M, may tell us that the company
felt the publicity about Mr. Godfrey's lung cancer was detrimental to their
product. They may well have quietly told CBS and Mr. Godfrey that they
thought it best to withdraw from that relationship. But that was never
indicated, nor has such ever come out in the years since. It seemed quite
clear to the viewing public and within media reaction that while the
parting was cordial, Mr. Godfrey did the severing.
If Mr. Robins will support another version of the story, I'd be most happy
like to see the evidence of such, either on line or with personal
correspondence in addition to that we have had already. I most certainly
am not knocking Mr. Robinson; I welcome his input. I am quite sincere in
hoping to see "the rest of the story". You know, that great line made
famous by the 173-year old Paul Harvey! Or was the latest figure 204?
By the way, saying Arthur Godfrey "dumped" Chesterfield is really quite
unfair in tone. That language is as unreasonable and misleading as saying
that he "fired" Julius LaRosa. In both cases, Mr. Godfrey simply and as
kindly as possible severed the connection; in the latter case at Mr.
LaRosa's fervent and repeated requests.
I hope this (cough) clears the air.
Lee Munsick
*** This message was altered by the server, and may not appear ***
*** as the sender intended. ***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 12:12:44 -0400
From: Fred Berney <berney@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Re:John Gallagher
John, would you please email me your new email address. I tried using the
one I had in March and the email bounced back. Thanks.
Fred
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 12:28:17 -0400
From: KENPILETIC@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Eddy vs Welles - Judge for Yourself
Hi Gang -
Once again the Nelson Eddy "tune-out" discussion has appeared
on the digest. I prepared a CD for myself on which I recorded the
"War of the Worlds" on the left channel and "The Chase and Sanborn
Hour" on the right channel.
When the CD is played, I can adjust the balance control from left
to right and hear exactly what was happening at the same time
on the two networks.
At 0:4:50 into the program, Neslon Eddy starts to sing his second
song in a row. "The Canadian Logging Song" is a song that I never
heard before or since. It is not a particularly good song in either
tune or lyrics. The song runs until 0:6:33. Meanwhile, at 0:4:50 on CBS,
the orchestra was beginning to play "Star Dust".
Anyone listening to "The Canadian Logging Song" on NBC might
have wished to see what else is on, and tuned to "Star Dust", which
was interruped for the report from Carl Phillips at the Princeton
Observatory at 0:6:10.
This means that anyone who "tuned out" Nelson Eddy during his
"Logging Song" could have discovered Orson Welles at a very good
time to be completely taken-in by the War of the Worlds drama.
The remainder of the Chase and Sanborn Hours is not up to its
usual standard (in my opinion), and listeners might have tuned out
at any point in time.
It has come to my attention that most people who comment about
the Neslon Eddy tune-out had never heard (recordings of ) the
Chase and Sanborn Hour broadcast of October 30, 1938.
Last year (or the year before, I forget which) at the FOTR, I gave
copies of my CD (with War of The Worlds on Left and Chase and
Sanborn on Right) to several people so they could "hear for themselves"
what took place.
If you would like a copy of this CD so that you can make your own judgement
as to why and when "Charlie McCarthy" fans might have tuned-in to Orson
instead of Charlie, please contact me privately to arrange a copy for you.
I must put a cut-off date of September 1 on this offer.
Happy Taping -- Ken Piletic - Streamwood, Illinois
kenpiletic@[removed]
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 12:29:19 -0400
From: "james hunt" <jameshunt@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Keep It Going
It is gratifying that Randy has succeeded in turning things around in most
quarters, apparently. This is indeed
a gathering place for the exchange of ideas on all things OTR. It is not a
popularity contest. And it is absolutely
essential to disagree in a gentlemanly fashion as Charlie has pointed out.
If it took a series of events to make me the villain here-in othere's
eyes-not mine to bring this about so be it.
In trying to point out that we need to go beyond trashing "anyone"-Real or
Mythical- to focus on their legacacies
I ruffled a few feathers. I make no apologies. It was worth it.
Living all my life with one foot in the real world and one in the world of
the handicaped I am anything but naive
about anything. I take care of" business".Translation-that means taking care
of myself .
When in high school in the fiftiies i recorded a local radio telephone
interview with Mrs. Brace Beemer which
reinforced factually what i intuatitively Knew about the man.
Bottom line-most of what I am as a person I owe-in large part to "The Lone
Ranger."
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 12:28:38 -0400
From: StevenL751@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Re: australian OTR question
One man's family was broadcast live on 3XY in Melbourne and >was
based on American scripts. It was broadcast for a number of >years from mid
to late 1930s and was very very popular and everyone who >acted in it always
spoke very fondly of their time spent as part of the serial. >It is such a
shame that no episodes survive of this series.
Actually at least one episode has survived: Book 15, Chapter 7. I think I
found it years ago in the NARA tape library. In the chronology of the
Barbour Family, this is actually the earliest episode from any OMF series
known to still exist.
Steve Lewis
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 14:03:24 -0400
From: ArtsMilitaria@[removed] (Arthur Funk)
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: re: LONE RANGER
In reaction to Randy Story's comments: You said a mouthful, brother!
Brought a tear to the eye of this 61 year old member of the Lone Ranger
Health & Safety Club. Brace Beemer and Clayton Moore would be proud of
you, Randy.
Regards to all,
Art Funk
--------------------------------
End of [removed] Digest V2002 Issue #321
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