Subject: [removed] Digest V2005 #322
From: [removed]@[removed]
Date: 10/20/2005 10:18 AM
To: [removed]@[removed]

------------------------------


                            The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                              Volume 2005 : Issue 322
                         A Part of the [removed]!
                             [removed]
                                 ISSN: 1533-9289


                                 Today's Topics:

  10-19 births/deaths                   [ Ron Sayles <bogusotr@[removed]; ]
  Chicago Tribune OTR Article           [ seandd@[removed] ]
  Guiding Light Returns to Radio, Sort  [ seandd@[removed] ]
  On the trail of the lonesome Pyne     [ "Derek Tague" <derek@[removed]; ]
  White Feller                          [ "Jim Nixon" <ranger6000@[removed] ]
  SFX Vs. Foley                         [ dougdouglass@[removed] ]
  Personal attacks                      [ George Kelly <gkelly1@[removed]; ]
  INQUIRY: Escaped madmen               [ Steve Lewis <stevelewis62@[removed]; ]
  do any pre-WOR Jean Shepherds exist?  [ Rutledge Mann <cliff_marsland@yahoo ]
  white feller                          [ "joe@[removed]" <sergei01@earthli ]
  Abbott and Costello Meet Murrow and   [ "karl tiedemann" <karltiedemann@hot ]
  Dunning Book ref Gunsmoke             [ "Jed Dolnick" <jdolnick@[removed] ]
  Timing!                               [ <whhsa@[removed]; ]
  Newark Star-Ledger Covers Friends of  [ Sean Dougherty <seandd@[removed] ]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 09:07:11 -0400
From: Ron Sayles <bogusotr@[removed];
To: Olde Tyme Radio List <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  10-19 births/deaths

October 19th births

10-19-1889 - Fannie Hurst - Hamilton, OH - d. 2-23-1968
writer: "United China Relief"; "Fanny Hurst Reviews"; "Big Joe"; "United
Nations Today"
10-19-1903 - Robert Hardy Andrews - Effingham, KS - d. 11-11-1976
writer: "Skippy"; "Jack Armstrong"; "Just Plain Bill"
10-19-1907 - Roger Wolfe Kahn - Morristown, NJ - d. 7-12-1962
bandleader: "Roger Wolfe Kahn and His Orchestra"
10-19-1910 - John C. Mills - Picqua, OH - d. 1-24-1936
singer: (The Mills Brothers) "Mills Brothers Quartette"; "Bing Crosby Show"
10-19-1911 - George Cates - New York, NY - d. 5-12-2002
orchestra leader: "Full Speed Ahead"; "Guest Star"; "Stand By for Music"
10-19-1918 - Bob Sweeney - San Francisco, CA - d. 6-7-1992
actor: "Sweeney and March"; "Sara's Private Caper"
10-19-1920 - Harry Alan Towers - London, England
producer: "The Black Museum"; "Horatio Hornblower"; "The Scarlet Pimpernel"
10-19-1921 - George Nader - Pasadena, CA - d. 2-4-2002
actor: "Family Theatre"
10-19-1925 - Eddie Layton - d. 12-16-2004
organist: New York Yankees and many radio programs
10-19-1930 - Wally Flaherty - The Bronx, NY - d. 9-23-1998
host: "Open Line"
10-19-1932 - Robert Reed - Highland Park, IL - d. 5-12-1992
actor: "Hollywood Radio Theatre"

October 19th deaths

01-31-1894 - Isham Jones - Coalton, OH - d. 10-19-1956
bandleader: "Isham Jones and His Orchestra"
02-22-1892 - Edna St. Vincent Millay - Rockland, ME - d. 10-19-1950
author: "Against the Storm"
04-16-1914 - John Hodiak - Pittsburgh, PA - d. 10-19-1955
actor: L'il Abner "L'il Abner"; Butch Cavendish "Lone Ranger"
05-01-1919 - John Meredyth Lucas - d. 10-19-2002
film director, producer: "Bud's Bandwagon"
07-13-1902 - Phillips H. Lord - Hartford, CT - d. 10-19-1975
actor: Seth Parker "Seth Parker"; Mitchell Frazier "Story of Mary Marlin"
08-27-1916 - Martha Raye - Butte, MT - d. 10-19-1994
comedienne: "Tuesday Night Party"; "Cavalcade of America"; "Screen Guild
Theatre"
11-04-1911 - Josephine Huston - d. 10-19-1967
vocalist: "Take a Note"
11-30-1667 - Jonathan Swift - Dublin, Ireland - d. 10-19-1745
writer: "The Columbia Workshop"
12-22-1911 - Bob Guilbert - Wisconsin - d. 10-19-1990
actor: Don Winslow "Don Winslow of the Navy"
--
Ron Sayles
Milwaukee, Wisconsin

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 09:12:12 -0400
From: seandd@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Chicago Tribune OTR Article

Leslie Levine's Chicago Tribune article on old time radio fandom published in today's issue.  You'll see digester and Those Were the Days Players front man Randy Larson quoted prominently along with Chuck Schaden and others.

The Friends of Old Time Radio website ([removed]), part of our illustrious moderator's cyber-empire, also gets a plug at the end of the article.

See everyone in Newark tomorrow!

Sean Dougherty
SeanDD@[removed]

[removed],1,[removed];cset=true

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 09:12:20 -0400
From: seandd@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Guiding Light Returns to Radio, Sort Of

Via "Podcasting," CBS is making available audio versions of its soap opera
available through its website for fans who want to listen to the show while
driving to work.

There is an article about this in today's Wall Street Journal on page D16
(only available online to subscribers).  It describes the technical work
necessary to convert the performance to audio only  and mentions that in the
last years of the radio version the actors did two performances, one for
radio and one for TV, until the radio show was ended.

Currently, they are just adapting the TV performance for audio, and the
article notes some shortcomings that result.

This has been a big day for signs that people are still interested in the
audio drama format.

Sean Dougherty
SeanDD@[removed]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 12:57:44 -0400
From: "Derek Tague" <derek@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  On the trail of the lonesome Pyne
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain

Hi Gang:

I'd like to thank everybody who weighed in on one-time radio host Joe [removed]
When Morton Downey Jr. was all the rage in the late 1980s, I had heard that
Pyne was a similarly slanted confrontational  host. However, my only memory of
Pyne was a late-night movie on commercial TV [remember them?] called "The
Love-Ins," in which Richard Todd plays a college professor who goes to
Haight-Asbury & becomes a Timothy Leary-esque LSD guru. This 1967 low-budget
exploitation film also features Joe Pyne as himself, aa s well as James
MacArthur, Susan Oliver, and Mark Goddard (talk about "lost in space.").

[removed]: MacArthur shoots Todd at the end, inadvertently turning him into a
"martyr." Book yourself, Dan-O!

Hope to see everybody at FOTR in Newark tom'w. Those twenty-minute cab rides
are excrutiating!

Yours always in the ether!

Derek Tague

  *** This message was altered by the server, and may not appear ***
  ***                  as the sender intended.                   ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 12:59:07 -0400
From: "Jim Nixon" <ranger6000@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  White Feller

Dave (Gettum-up Scout) Parker posted a remark about "White Feller", the
horse that carried Tonto, the Lone Ranger's faithful Indian companion, until
Scout took over.  There is no better source to explain the change than Dave
Holland's book, "From Out of the Past".  On page 398, Dave says, "Tonto
called his new horse White Feller, and White Feller it [removed] the next
three years.  But in that third year - 1938 - the first Republic serial was
released and excited audiences could now see their heroes' horses.  But
wait.  Although the screen Tonto called his horse White Feller, it wasn't
white, it was a paint!  Hollywood had felt that one white horse up there was
plenty, thank you, and for once, Detroit decided to correct the discrepancy
in images."
In the episode broadcast August 5, 1938 titled, "Three Against the Warpath",
or sometimes called, "Thundercloud's Camp in the Hills", White Feller goes
lame and Chief Thundercloud, a recurring character in the radio shows,
presents Tonto with his own horse, a magnificent paint.  A few shows later,
on September 2, 1938 ("Sheriff Sanders and the Smugglers"), Tonto bestows
the name "Scout" on the horse (possible the result of a contest, Dave
Holland speculates).  From then on, it was Silver and Scout to the rescue.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 12:59:12 -0400
From: dougdouglass@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  SFX Vs. Foley

Calling SFX guys "Foley Artists" is the same as saying radio spots are
Voice-Overs.  T'aint so, McGee.

Doug Douglass

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 13:00:31 -0400
From: George Kelly <gkelly1@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Personal attacks

Some recent posting have commented on the attack on an individual by
a news reporter.  I found this quote from a Philadelphia newspaper;
the name has been omitted until the end for effect:

" If ever a nation was debauched by a man, the American nation has
been debauched by . . . .  If ever a nation has suffered from the
improper influence of a man, the American nation has suffered from
the influence of . . . .  If ever a nation was deceived by a man, the
American nation has been deceived by . . . .  Let his conduct then be
an example to future ages.  Let it serve to be a warning that no man
may be an idol."

The man being berated is none other than the father of our country,
and the editor of the paper was Ben Franklin's grandson.

Now to get back on topic:  my family and i listened to Fulton Lewis
Jr. ever night at six on the local Mutual station, and if memory
serves, though these days mine often double faults, Lewis was not shy
about advocating his positions and attacking those who disagreed with
him.  If I'm remembering incorrectly, I'm certain someone will
correct me.

George Kelly

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 13:23:56 -0400
From: Steve Lewis <stevelewis62@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  INQUIRY: Escaped madmen

A book I read recently started out the same way I remember lots and lots of
OTR shows.  An inmate at a mental institution makes an escape, and is
either picked up as a hitchhiker by a passing motorist, or becomes a
passenger on a busful of people, or holds up a gas station and murders
people filling up at the pump adn steals their car, or ... well, I imagine
you get the idea.

My question is, I don't remember the programs or the titles of the shows
themselves.  SUSPENSE, more than likely, and INNER SANCTUM, or THE
WHISTLER, and all kinds of similar series.

Does this ring any bells?  Can anyone come up with specific shows?  If
possible, please reply to me as well as on list.

				Best

				 Steve (from CT)

PS. The book I was reading is PITY HIM AFTERWARDS by mystery writer Donald
E. Westlake.  The opening chapter comes straight out of OTR.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 23:39:38 +0000
From: Rutledge Mann <cliff_marsland@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  do any pre-WOR Jean Shepherds exist?

Hi all,

I forgot to ask this yesterday, but do any pre-WOR
Jean Sheps exist (I've heard a few do), and more
importantly, what would the the best source for the
highest quality copy?  I'd esp. like to hear his
Cincinnati show.

Trav

		

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 23:39:50 +0000
From: "joe@[removed]" <sergei01@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  white feller

WF's name was changed to Scout on the radio long before 1948.

js

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 23:40:01 +0000
From: "karl tiedemann" <karltiedemann@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Abbott and Costello Meet Murrow and
  Seldes

A good version of the A & C mudder/fodder routine is found in their film, 
THE NOOSE HANGS HIGH.  And the script for the picture is in the Lincoln 
Center Research Library here in New York, if that's geographically convenient.

I believe they also do the routine in an episode of their filmed TV show 
called "Las Vegas."

Also, many of their bits, including this one, are transcribed in Richard J. 
Anobile's old book, WHO'S ON FIRST, which I've seen on [removed] for 
as little as one dollar.
I don't believe that anyone has mentioned one nice aspect of the 
Benny-Seldes business:  Milt Josefsberg told of how Gilbert Seldes was 
invited on to the Benny show to amplify his complaint about insult humor.
The gang then showed him what the show would be like without insults, 
leading to a sickly sweet sketch which had Seldes finally getting fed up, 
insulting everyone and storming off!  Reportedly, a good time was had by 
[removed]  I have to go along, by the by, with Miss McLeod's opinion that 
Seldes' writings are well worth looking at; his THE SEVEN LIVELY ARTS was a 
pioneering bit of cultural criticism (came out in 1924, I believe.
I keep rather hoping the Ed Murrow thread will die out, but since it hasn'[removed]

I can't say that I found the Jack Shafer piece vitriolic, as someone said; 
it was definitely snarky in places and that I could certainly have done 
without, but I found many of its points very interesting, such as citing 
Jack Gould's opinion that ABC's broadcasting the Army-McCarthy hearings was 
what really sank the senator.  Also, his contention that the "heaviest 
Hollywood airbrushing" came in during the film's handling of the Milo 
Radulovich and Annie Lee Moss cases goes to a point that I don't think 
anyone has touched on here yet:  Could the filmmakers conceivably be trying 
to discredit all American anti-Communist sentiment by tying it to McCarthy 
and his idiocies?  In short, are they pulling a "guilt by association" 
(ironically enough)?

James Bowman has had a crack at this:

".... [T]he film's director, George Clooney, and his co-writer, Grant 
Heslov, have completely bought into the official Hollywood version of the 
McCarthy era. It's hardly surprising, but it's quite [removed]

"Most of those who were seriously affected had been and in some cases still 
were communists or communist sympathizers-- which in those days meant 
agents or would-be agents of Josef Stalin or his heirs, foreign dictators 
whose massive military might was geared for war against America, whose 
proxies were or had recently been killing American soldiers in Korea and 
who were responsible for what at the time were the greatest mass murders in 
history.

".... There are plenty of reasons to regret McCarthy's career, but to 
regard him as a terrorist amounts to a willful refusal to understand "The 
Truth" that the film and the media culture it represents here 
characteristically claim as their own property.

".... [T]he questions that anyone without Hollywood's and the media's 
vested interests in self-mythologizing would want to have answered are 
these: Were there, in fact, any communists in Hollywood, the press, or the 
government, and were they a real danger to the republic?
These questions the movie never thinks it worth its while to ask, let alone 
[removed]

"One line of Murrow's attack on McCarthy stands out for a Truth that is 
more, one hopes, than mere advertising hype. It is that 'mature Americans 
can engage in the clash of ideas without being contaminated.'

"That may have been true in the 1950s. But a movie like this one, which 
feels it necessary to protect us from any genuine controversy, suggests 
that it is so no longer."

(Which reminds me of the line from Jonathan Reynolds' wonderful play a few 
years back, STONEWALL JACKSON'S HOUSE, wherein a theatre producer is made 
to say:  "Audiences only like controversy [in a play or film] when they 
AGREE with it!")

I found this line of thought striking, given especially that some very 
prominent Hiollywood figures still clearly admire charismatic killers like 
Castro and Che, and also given the fact that the American entertainment 
establishment has never made, for example, a SCHINDLER'S LIST of the 
Gulag-- or really any film (that I can think of) that does for the horrors 
of Communism what scores of films have done for the crimes of fascism.

Someone mentioned the venerable slogan "Question Authority."  Well and 
good-- and these days the entertainment industry seems to be wielding an 
awful lot of it.

Well, anyway-- I sincerely hope that we may soon put triviailities like 
this behind us and get on to discussing the things that really 
matter--  like the A & P Gypsies and Baby [removed]

Yours Truly,

                                  Karl Tiedemann

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 23:40:08 +0000
From: "Jed Dolnick" <jdolnick@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Dunning Book ref Gunsmoke

I just got my copy of John Dunning's Encyclopedia of Old Time Radio. It's 
incredible, mammoth, and well worth the money.

At the outset, I'm just looking up my favorite OTR programs rather than 
reading cover-to-cover. In the section on Gunsmoke, he wrote about "The New 
Hotel" rehearsal that we're all familiar with. Now, I've listened to that 
tape dozens of times but what I hear at one point is not what Dunning 
described. Perhaps someone with better hearing can tell me which version is 
correct.

In the story, Enoch Mills hires Gil Shanks to guard the new hotel. When 
they meet with Dillon, Shanks says, "Well with the law being so loose 
around here, we gotta protect your hotel". Everyone breaks up, and someone 
says, "That goddamn shrimp story does it every time". To me, they were 
laughing at the formulaic nature of the story line. But Dunning writes that 
someone committed a gastric indiscretion, and the comment was "That goddamn 
shrimp curry does it every time". Wow, talk about two different 
interpretations. I just listened to it with the volume cranked up, and that 
is not what I'm hearing!

Jed

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 23:40:15 +0000
From: <whhsa@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Timing!

Dear Folks:
Peace.
In the remarks about timing I contacted Ray Kemper who responded thusly:
"I have no idea what shows Hal Stone did but he is certainly wrong about the
asst. director (or associate director, the two terms are synonymous) timing
radio shows. I worked as associate director on Straight Arrow and one of my
primary duties was to time the show. There would often be a second person,
usually the script girl (script secretary) who would also time the program
during rehearsals and on the air, that way there would always be two stop
watches working on everything, thereby preventing mistakes. In my memory,
the director never timed the show, he had too many other things to do. I can
testify that the same type of thing occurred on radio's Gunsmoke and any
other radio show I worked those many years ago. On Gunsmoke, the asst.
director would time the show (in that case, Frank Paris) and Norm
Macdonnell's "Girl Friday" Ann Gaffney, would also time it. I never saw Norm
time anything on the program."

Manituwah,

Bill

Coming soon ~ the definitive book on the Nabisco Straight Arrow promotion of
the late 40s and 50s.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 23:40:24 +0000
From: Sean Dougherty <seandd@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Newark Star-Ledger Covers Friends of Old
  Time Radio

FOTR gets a plug in today's Newark Star-Ledger - calling particular 
attention to Simon Jones' interview on Friday afternoon.

The coverage is online here: 
[removed];coll=1

Sean Dougherty
SeanDD@[removed]

--------------------------------
End of [removed] Digest V2005 Issue #322
*********************************************

Copyright [removed] Communications, York, PA; All Rights Reserved,
  including republication in any form.

If you enjoy this list, please consider financially supporting it:
   [removed]

For Help: [removed]@[removed]

To Unsubscribe: [removed]@[removed]

To Subscribe: [removed]@[removed]
  or see [removed]

For Help with the Archive Server, send the command ARCHIVE HELP
  in the SUBJECT of a message to [removed]@[removed]

To contact the listmaster, mail to listmaster@[removed]

To Send Mail to the list, simply send to [removed]@[removed]