Subject: [removed] Digest V2002 #508
From: "OldRadio Mailing Lists" <[removed]@[removed];
Date: 12/29/2002 9:53 PM
To: <[removed]@[removed];

------------------------------


                            The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                              Volume 2002 : Issue 508
                         A Part of the [removed]!
                                 ISSN: 1533-9289


                                 Today's Topics:

  Today in radio history                [ Joe Mackey <joemackey108@[removed] ]
  end of live music on Radio            [ "Walden Hughes" <hughes1@[removed]; ]
  The OTTER is worth a try              [ Paulurbahn@[removed] ]
  Gunter Eich and Kenneth Patchen       [ MichG22@[removed] ]
  Re: More Red and Blue                 [ Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed] ]
  internet otr?                         [ Bill Harris <radioguy@[removed] ]
  George Burns on Broadway              [ "Gary Yoggy" <yoggy@[removed]; ]
  A&A Recordings                        [ Jim Widner <jwidner@[removed]; ]
  Sen-sen in song                       [ Richard Carpenter <sinatra@ragingbu ]
  Charlie McCarthy                      [ nicoll <nicoll@[removed]; ]
  The Yanks Are Coming ...              [ "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@ ]
  Sen-Sen                               [ Larry Groebe <lgroebe@genericradio. ]
  The Cross-Eyed Parrot                 [ "Martin Grams, Jr." <mmargrajr@hotm ]
  Sen Sen                               [ "Jim Hilliker" <jimhilliker@sbcglob ]
  television's I Love A Mystery         [ "Martin Grams, Jr." <mmargrajr@hotm ]
  Sen-Sen                               [ KirkG12797@[removed] ]
  Yesterday USA is still on the air     [ "Walden Hughes" <hughes1@[removed]; ]
  Sen Sen                               [ George Aust <austhaus1@[removed] ]
  Sen-Sen                               [ Jack & Cathy French <otrpiano@erols ]

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 16:53:27 -0500
From: Joe Mackey <joemackey108@[removed];
To: otr-net <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Today in radio history

>From Those Were The Days --

1945 - The mystery voice of Mr. Hush was heard for the first time on
Truth or Consequences, hosted by Ralph Edwards. The feature was intended
as a spoof of giveaway shows. However, the idea was taken seriously and
lasted five weeks before fighter Jack Dempsey was identified as Mr. Hush
-- for a prize of $13,500.

  Joe

--
Visit my home page:
[removed]~[removed]

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 16:53:02 -0500
From: "Walden Hughes" <hughes1@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  end of live music on Radio

Hi Everybody, I would be interested in when was the end of live regular
music show on radio either local or network?  I believe here in Los Angeles
it was around 1960.  Harry Babbitt had a morning live music show on KNX, and
Gregg Hunter had a music show on another station around the same time.
Gregg told me it was getting very expensive for his station to carry the
show because of the cost of members of the musician union.  Take care and
Happy New year,

Walden Hughes

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 16:53:42 -0500
From: Paulurbahn@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  The OTTER is worth a try

Frank asked:

<< Is anyone familiar with a freeware program called Otter? >>

I have been using the program on a limited basis. I am not too sure how
accurate the logs are in the program, but I can use it to list all the
contents of a disk of MP3 formnatted shows and it will display the list in
notepat for editing. This in itself is a great time saver for me. Any OTR fan
should give it a try if you use MP3 computer files.

Paul Urbahns

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 18:06:33 -0500
From: MichG22@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Gunter Eich and Kenneth Patchen
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I was amazed to discover that Columbia Workshop had produced a show starring
Les Treymane written by Kenneth Patchen with a score by John Cage. This
production transcended entertainment and delved into the radio medium as an
art form. Likewise the German Radio dramatist Gunter Eich was successful in
achieving the same results. I put out a challenge to current radio stations
and websites with streaming media who play OTR to vary from the typical fare
and roll the dice on some (theater of the)mind-feeding productions. NPR aired
new radio productions some time back, one production used actual location
sound, a railroad station, a refreshing change from the revivals I hear which
just sound like people talking around a table with little or no sound
effects.

Don't get me wrong, Jack Benny, Lone Ranger, Baby Snooks, Amos n' Andy, etc.
are all great shows and deserving of repeated listenings and I enjoy them
along with everybody else, but it sure would be nice for the broadcasters of
OTR to include some show's that go a bit deeper from time to time and not
wear out Norman Corwin's outstanding works when its time to add thought
provoking productions to a schedule.

Appreciate your thoughts and comments,

COPY BOY!!

Michael G

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Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 18:07:39 -0500
From: Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Re: More Red and Blue

On 12/29/02 5:06 PM OldRadio Mailing Lists wrote:

why is it
that most of the system outcues heard are 'generic' as "This is the
National Broadcasting Company" with no reference to the Red Network or the
Blue Network?

Most of the time, Red and Blue seem to have been largely
internal/industry designations -- you would find references to Red and
Blue in internal company documents or the trade press, but most of the
time civilian publications referred simply to the "NBC-WEAF" or "NBC-WJZ"
network. NBC doesn't seem to have been especially interested in drawing
attention to its bifurcated structure for most of the time it ran two
networks -- and indeed, until 1937-38 there *were* no administrative
distinctions between the two networks. There was only one Program
Department, only one Sales Department, and so on down the line. This
being so, "This is the National Broadcasting Company" was a perfectly
acceptable system cue for both chains.

There were two exceptions to this -- the only two periods in NBC's
history where Red and Blue were routinely used as on-air designations:
1936-37 and 1941. The 1936-37 period was probably the result of the early
rumblings of a Federal investigation of NBC's activities -- and was done
to create an apparent distinction between the two networks where no real
distinction existed. The 1941 use of Red and Blue was concurrent with the
release of the FCC's Report on Chain Broadcasting, and was probably a way
of conditioning the public for the upcoming separation of Red from Blue.

I also believe that there may have been an early effort to indicate Red
or Blue by means of distinctive chime sequences. The three-tone G-E-C
chime was not standardized until 1931 at the earliest -- indeed, the
earliest known recordings of the three note chime date to March 1932. But
there are surviving recordings from 1929, 1930, and 1931 in which a
seven-note chime pattern is used on the Red network, and two different
five-note chime patterns used on Blue. (Audio clips of these chimes can
be heard on Bill Harris's website.) While no documentation has emerged to
support the hypothesis that these chimes were used consistently to
designate Red or Blue, it is certainly suggested by circumstantial
evidence.

It's also important to keep in mind that there were many NBC sustaining
programs that were neither Red nor Blue -- these were programs made
available to Supplemental stations not being used by either network at a
particular time, and were usually musical fillers, band remotes, and so
forth.

Elizabeth

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 19:55:17 -0500
From: Bill Harris <radioguy@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  internet otr?

"Michael Muderick" <[removed]@[removed]; ask:

Is there currently a site that has regular otr?  I assume YESTERDAY USA is
gone?

Still there, listening to them as we speak.

Try [removed]

Bill H.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 19:56:00 -0500
From: "Gary Yoggy" <yoggy@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  George Burns on Broadway
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I had the pleasure of seeing SAY GOODNIGHT GRACIE in New York yesterday.  I
feel compelled to share my joy with all lovers of old time radio (and
especially, of George Burns).  The show was wonderful!!!  Frank Gorshin
BECOMES George Burns (as if he had come back to life).  He looks, sounds, uses
the same body language, the same mannerisms as Burns.  Add to this the
judicious use of slides and film footage of George, Gracie, Jack Benny and the
locations in which they lived and worked PLUS the voice of Didi Cohn as Gracie
and you have a visit back to the golden age of radio (and television) that is
both funny and moving. Considerable credit should go too to author Rupert
Holmes (who also created REMEMBER WENN).   There was hardly a dry eye in the
house when Gracie's voice closes the show with "Say goodnight, George!"
Followed by a most deserved standing ovation.  SOOOOO, you owe it to yourself
to see this show before it closes!!!    Happy New Year and keep listening to
the wonderful theater of the mind,   Gary Yoggy

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Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 19:56:45 -0500
From: Jim Widner <jwidner@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  A&A Recordings

Elizabeth wrote:

The first 438 episodes, of course, *were* recorded -- from 3/19/28 thru
8/18/29, A&A was the very first radio program to be distributed by
recorded syndication. These discs were required to be destroyed after
broadcast, however, and only about seventy episodes from this run are
currently known to exist.

I wonder: Given Gosden/Correll's dedication to their creation, it seems odd
that they never kept an original copy of the recording. Do we know in fact
that they never did even if they might have destroyed them in later
years?  Or did they look at their creation as some dedicated actors look at
their work - the characterizations grow and change, and therefore they did
not want them locked in "stone" in any fashion?

It just seems that they must have had a sense of history, given the
popularity of the characters,  that the creators themselves would have
considered some kind of archive even one as primitive as a disc recording
at the time.

Jim Widner
jwidner@[removed]

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 19:56:59 -0500
From: Richard Carpenter <sinatra@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Sen-sen in song

  Re the discusssion of sen-sen, this is from "The
Music Man":

  "You got trouble Folks! Right here in River City.
Trouble with a Capital T and that rhymes with P and
that stands for [removed]'ll be trying out Bevo,
trying out Cubads trying 'bout Tailor maid like
cigarette fiends. And bragging 'bout how they're gonna
cover up a tell-tale breath with sen-sen."

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 19:57:18 -0500
From: nicoll <nicoll@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Charlie McCarthy

Today in PARADE:
Q - Whatever happened to Charlie McCarthy and Mortimer Snerd, Edgar
Bergen's dummies?

A - There are three sets.  They're safe and soundless at the Smithsonian in
Washington, [removed]; Chicago's Radio Hall of Fame; and with actress Candice
Bergen, the ventriloquest's daughter.

Will Nicoll

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 19:57:40 -0500
From: "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  The Yanks Are Coming ...
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Howard Blue noted,

I would appreciate hearing about some available (on-line or through
archives) audio segments of dramatic shows related to World War II

How are you defining "dramatic segments"?  I know that many shows of the
time had stories relating to World War II.  Counterspy ([removed] David
Harding, Counterspy) was developed as a World War II drama, for example.
I'm rather familiar with the World War II stories concerning Captain
Midnight (which included a story that included the title character found
plans of Pearl Harbor in a criminal associated with the Japanese forces a
couple of months before the attack).  These have a few surviving recorded
episodes.  Outside of that, The Green Hornet has surviving recordings
about the title character fighting sabotage during the war.

Even purely children's shows like Tom Mix Ralston Straight Shooters had
World War II related episodes.  A few World War II related episodes
exist.  Hop Harrigan, an aviation-related program aimed squarely at
children, originated in All-American Comics, but was turned into a radio
show in 1942, with the title character in the Army Air Corps, fighting
the Axis.  There are many dozen Hop Harrigan World War II episodes in
circulation.  The Terry and the Pirates serial also had World War II
adventures; I believe a few survive as recordings.

Stephen A. Kallis, Jr.

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Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 20:55:14 -0500
From: Larry Groebe <lgroebe@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Sen-Sen

All this talk about "Sen-Sen", and yet nobody thinks to quote those immortal
lines uttered by Professor Harold Hill in "The Music [removed]"

 "Ya got trouble folks! Right here in River City!
  Trouble with a capital T and that rhymes with P and that stands for pool!

  Now, I know all you folks are the right kind of parents
  I'm going to be perfectly frank.

  Would ya like to know what kind of conversation
  goes on while they're loafing around that hall?

  They'll be tryin' out Bevo
  Tryin' out Cubebs
  Tryin' out tailor mades like cigarette fiends!

  And braggin' all about how they're gonna
  cover up a tell-tale breath with Sen Sen."

...as written by Meredith Willson, one very OTR-related person.

NOW, as our bonus follow-up question, what were Cubebs and Bevo?

  --Larry

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 20:55:41 -0500
From: "Martin Grams, Jr." <mmargrajr@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  The Cross-Eyed Parrot

I am on the lookout for a copy of a play entitled "The Cross-Eyed Parrot" by
Ted Maxwell.  At least, that was the title used on a radio serial in 1929,
but the original play MAY have been a different title.  I have been under
the assumption that the Maxwell story was a stage play, but I might be
incorrect.  All I have is the author's name and the title of the radio
serial.

The plot, oddly enough for 1929, concerns a mad scientist who wants to
transplant a human brain into a gorilla, and vice versa - it's gets sick,
gory, bloody, women screaming, and even a mad insane loon on a killing
rampage.  And this was a short-run radio serial in 1929!  I am on the
lookout for a copy of the original play - if it exists.  I have failed to
find anything about the author of the stage play on the internet, or local
library.  If anyone can help, it would be greatly appreciated.
Martin Grams, Jr.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 20:55:57 -0500
From: "Jim Hilliker" <jimhilliker@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Sen Sen

[removed] like a lot of you know what Sen-Sen is or have heard of it,
including the writers for Fibber [removed] does go way back, at least to
the early 20th century.

In addition, fans of the musical play "The Music Man" by OTR music
conductor/band leader Meredith Willson will recall that in the song "Ya Got
Trouble", Willson had these lyrics as part of the song:

"They'll be tryin' out Bevo, tryin' out Cubebs, tryin' out
tailor-mades like cigarette fiends, and braggin' all about how they're gonna
cover up a tell-tale breath with [removed]"

Of course, Willson wrote all the songs and the book for the play from his
memories of growing up in Iowa in 1912.

Jim

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 20:56:39 -0500
From: "Martin Grams, Jr." <mmargrajr@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  television's I Love A Mystery

Movie buff and die-hard mystery/horror fan Brendan Faulkner brought to my
attention back in October at the Friends of Old-Time Radio Convention that
Carlton E. Morse's "I LOVE A MYSTERY" series was made into a half-hour
television pilot during the mid-fifties (probably 1955 or 56).  The filmed
pilot was not very good, apparently, nor did it make it to a prime-time run.
  The Frederick W. ZIV Television company (same company that brought Bold
Venture, Mr. District Attorney and Boston Blackie to television) produced
the pilot.

Brendan claims that the pilot does exist, and it's just a matter of finding
someone who either has the film, or knows where it can be viewed.  He almost
had the opportunity to view it before something happened and film didn't
make it to a film festival.  Naturally, this has peaked my interest.

Alas, I have yet to find anyone who claims to have a copy on video, or knows
where I can get a copy.  I am willing to pay for info as to where I can
acquire or view the pilot (I'd like to mail Brendan a copy if I can get a
hold of it since he brought it to my attention).

Anyone help?
Martin Grams, Jr.

[removed]  This is a real obscure film to find - I'll pay good money for a copy
on VHS.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 21:39:44 -0500
From: KirkG12797@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Sen-Sen
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It's not OTR, but I'm suprised no one came up with the lines from the song
"Trouble" in "The Music Man":

They'll be tryin' out Bevo;
Tryin' out Cubebs;
Tryin' out Tailor Mades, like cigarette fiends,
And braggin' all about how they're gonna cover up a tell-tale breath with
Sen-Sen.

That's where I learned what Sen-Sen, was, along with some old cigarette brand
names.

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Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 23:46:41 -0500
From: "Walden Hughes" <hughes1@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Yesterday USA is still on the air

Hi Everybody, in the last digest Michael was wondering about Yesterday USA
is still on the air.  The answer is yes go to [removed] beside
the internet the network is heard on at least 10 cable network, satellite,
at least 10 low power AM and FM radio station, on telephone, and 2000
nursing homes and hospitals.  The network is celebrating its 20 years on the
year next year.  You can here show from at leat 25 DJ, and a nightly live
show.  On future Saturday night show at 7-30 PM California time you will
here the following guest,
Saturday 1-4-03 Harlan Zinck manager of the First Generation Archive,
Saturday 1-11-03 Jim Cox will respected author of OTR books,
Saturday 1-18-03 Charlie Summers, our very own list Master,
Saturday 1-25-03 Laura Lef president of the International  Jack Benny Fan
Club.

Take care,
Walden Hughes

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 23:48:24 -0500
From: George Aust <austhaus1@[removed];
To: OTR Digest <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Sen Sen

I purposely didn't respond to the post about Sen Sen because I figured
that the next digest would be flooded with responses and I was right.
However a couple of points.  Among the kids during the early and mid
forties Sen Sen was used both as a coverup for tobacco breath and also
to eat like candy.  I was in the latter group as I would never have
considered smoking cigarettes at least at that age.  I didn't
particularly care for the taste but it was really cheap as I recall $.02
for a little paper packet, and they lasted a long time.

If you watch the movie "The Music Man" the lyrics in the song "Trouble
in River City" contained the words Sen Sen as a warning sign to watch
out for, as the kids would use these to coverup what was on their
breath.

Someone also asked if it was still available.  My wife tells me that it
still shows up in the Vermont Country Store catalog from time to time.
And an additional note to Elizabeth. She also says that rubber rollers
for wringer type washing machines are also sometimes in that catalog,
tho she couldn't remember when she saw them the last time.

George Aust

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 23:48:39 -0500
From: Jack & Cathy French <otrpiano@[removed];
To: OTRBB <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Sen-Sen

Most of the responders are correct in saying the primary purpose of
Sen-Sen was not as a breath mint, but as a way of concealing the fact
that the user had been smoking or consuming alcohol.

The practice was so wide-spread it was described in the words of the
song, "Trouble in River City" in The Music Man.  Prof. Harold Hill,
warning parents about the dangers of the pool hall, and its affiliated
vices, sings of their youngsters bragging about smoking cigarettes and
then covering it up with Sen-Sen.

--------------------------------
End of [removed] Digest V2002 Issue #508
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