------------------------------
The Old-Time Radio Digest!
Volume 2001 : Issue 365
A Part of the [removed]!
ISSN: 1533-9289
Today's Topics:
Re: BBC Xmas Carol [ Michael Biel <mbiel@[removed]; ]
Re: BBC Xmas Carol [ Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed] ]
Cheerios / Lone Ranger [ "welsa" <welsa@[removed]; ]
God Bless America [ JayHick@[removed] ]
Re: More Paper Discs [ Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed] ]
Re: TV eclipses radio [ OTRChris@[removed] ]
Re: Paper Records [ Fred Berney <berney@[removed]; ]
OTR Prognosticators? [ "Philip Railsback" <philiprailsback ]
Two Questions for Elizabeth [ GEORGE WAGNER <gwagneroldtimeradio@ ]
Wasn't that.,......? [ Conrad Binyon <conradab@[removed] ]
BBC Radio [ Bhob Stewart <bhob2@[removed]; ]
Libraries [ "Scott Eberbach" <seberbach@earthli ]
From the New York Times [ "Mark Kinsler" <kinsler33@[removed] ]
Hoarders, Lucy, and Libraries [ "[removed]" <swells@[removed]; ]
Lucy [ Harry Bartell <bartell@[removed] ]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 22:16:04 -0500
From: Michael Biel <mbiel@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Re: BBC Xmas Carol
From: Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed];
There's been circulating among OTR collectors for some time a
version of "A Christmas Carol" produced by George Ludlum for the
NBC Thesaurus Transcription Service in 1934 -- but over the last
couple of years I've run across misdated and misattributed MP3
versions of this, claiming it to be a "1931 BBC Production."
This is probably just coincidental -- but I'd hate to think of
the BBC archivists being taken in by bogus information (not
that it hasn't happened [removed])
This same Thesaurus recording also circulates, by the way, under
a "12/24/31 -- NBC" date. It's no such thing -- and in fact, it
remained in circulation thru Thesaurus pressings well into the
early fifties. Elizabeth
I'll be forwarding this information to a colleague of mine at the
British Library's National Sound Archive who no doubt will quickly be on
the phone to the archivists at the BBC. I happen to have a set of the
discs of the Thesaurus production of "A Christmas Carol" and I am
wondering if we are talking about the same program or whether your 1934
date is also wrong. My two NBC Thesaurus discs are the original maroon
label pressings, Records 598 and 599, but the matrix numbers cannot
possibly date from 1934. In fact, comparing these matrix numbers with
known recording dates of RCA Victor records, the numbers seem to date
from the last week of October to the first days of November 1938. Note
that the four sides do not have consecutive numbers, indicating that
each part may have been recorded in separate recording sessions over
several days. Here is the discographic data and the timings:
Part 1 MS 028227-1 14:40
Part 2 MS 028231-1 14:30
Part 3 MS 028236-1 14:30
Part 4 MS 028238-1 9:00
RCA Victor did not begin using the matrix series with the leading zeros
until mid-August 1936, and would have been in the 85000 range in the
latter part of 1934. But they were not yet making Thesaurus recordings
that early. The Thesaurus service was not announced by NBC until June
15, 1935 although there were teaser advertisements in Broadcasting
hinting at the service in May 1935. It even appears that they were
rushing at the last minute to get things ready for the introduction of
the service. For example, the marathon recording session by Benny
Goodman and his Orchestra as The Rhythm Makers was on June 6, 1935 on
matrices MS 92210-1 thru 92222-1. Some of these matrices appeared on
Records 123 thru 126 which probably were in the first released set sent
to stations. The June 15 announcement mentioned there would initially
be 400 units with an additional 40 to 50 units added each month. To me
this means the number of tracks, not the number of discs. Since most of
the discs had 4 tracks per side, the first release would be about 50
discs with maybe ten to twelve more each month. Once they started
having longer-form programs included, it would seem likely that they
could well have reached discs numbered 598 and 599 by December 1938.
So unless there was an earlier version of A Christmas Carol in the
Thesaurus catalog, all of the evidence from several different
calculations all point to recording sessions within a week of November
1, 1938. If the recording ledgers still existed we wouldn't have to go
through all of this detective work! If somebody has an early version of
the Thesaurus catalog we might have an easier time figuring out the
dates the discs were released to the stations. (Mine is from the late
40s.)
But now comes the real question. Is the recording I have on my
Thesaurus discs the same one that Elizabeth cites as being circulated as
either a BBC or an NBC broadcast from 1931 which she had dated to 1934?
And is this recording the same one that the BBC now thinks is their
newly discovered 1931 broadcast?
Here is a description of the beginning of the program on my discs. It
opens with an organ playing "I Heard the Bells On Christmas Day" and
then a small mixed chorus sings the carol. They fade out as if moving
on to the next house, and then we hear the announcer: "Holly in the
window, roast goose or maybe turkey sizzling in the oven. And as a
special radio treat for the Christmas season, we bring you the story of
old Ebaneezer Scrooge, an adaptation from Charles Dickens' immortal
classic, "A Christmas Carol." The organ, which had been playing softly
in the background, continues playing "God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen," and
then the narrator starts "To begin with, old Marley was dead. No doubt
whatever about that. . . ."
Of course that introduction could have been cut out from the "BBC"
version if it might be thought that the announcer did not have a good
enough British accent to be a BBC announcer. If so, does the story
itself begin with the organ playing "God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen"
underneath the narrator?? There are no closing announcements, and the
program ends with the chorus singing "I Heard the Bells On Christmas
Day" before and after the final narration, with the organ joining in at
the end.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 22:17:51 -0500
From: Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Re: BBC Xmas Carol
Michael Biel wrote:
I happen to have a set of the
discs of the Thesaurus production of "A Christmas Carol" and I am
wondering if we are talking about the same program or whether your 1934
date is also wrong. My two NBC Thesaurus discs are the original maroon
label pressings, Records 598 and 599, but the matrix numbers cannot
possibly date from 1934.
I stand corrected on the date -- the Thesaurus production I'm thinking of
is the same one you're talking about, and thanks for the detailed info.
(I wish RCA transcription MX numbers from the thirties were date-coded
like the later ones!) I transferred a maroon-label pressing of this for
the First Generation Archives earlier this year, and was surprised to
find that it matched an unattributed tape dub that I had which has
circulated with a 1931 date. It also matched a set of lacquers I have
from a station in Lewiston, Maine dated 1950 -- which contain a blurry
and unidentified dub of the Thesaurus discs. One mystery solved -- but
there's another.
SInce my last post, however, I've dug out yet another tape -- containing
*another* unattributed "Christmas Carol" version, this one *also* dated
1931 and attributed to NBC -- and here's where it gets even more
confusing. This program *doesn't* match the maroon-label Thesaurus
recording, **but it uses the same script.** It begins with a small chorus
singing "Silent Night," and a British-type narrator states:
"Holly in the window, roast goose or maybe turkey sizzling on the oven --
and as a special radio treat for the Christmas season, we bring you the
story of old Ebenezer Scrooge, an adaptation from Charles Dickens'
immortal classic, 'A Christmas Carol.'"
This intro is the same as the maroon-label Thesaurus version, but it's
*not* the same music. No organ is heard, and the chorus performs an
entirely different selection.
The narrator then goes into the "Old Marley was dead" routine, and the
story proceeds from there. The overall quality of the acting in this
version isn't bad, but the supporting actors don't sound the least bit
British -- for example, the guy playing nephew Fred sounds like an
American musical-comedy juvenile.
There are no closing credits or announcements. Scrooge declares "God
bless us all -- every one!," and the chorus returns to sing a bit of "O
Come All Ye Faithful," and the recording fades out. Running time is a
little over 41 minutes.
The production values of this recording are rudimentary -- sound effects
are very basic, and there is no instrumental music at all, just the a
capella chorus. It sounds very much like the maroon-label Thesaurus
version -- but it's a different performance.
I know nothing about the source discs for this version -- the tape is
totally without documentation -- but the surface noise is clearly 33 1/3
rpm.
I've just finished scanning thru Broadcasting for every Christmas season
from 1931 to 1934, and I don't see any announcement of any transcribed
"Christmas Carol" that would correspond to this recording, so whatever
this is, I doubt the 1931 date is accurate. I can also find no live NBC
production to correspond with a 1931 date in any of the program schedules
for 12/31 that I have at hand. And I don't think this is a British
production, because the British, so far as I know, didn't record on 33
1/3 discs in the early thirties -- aside from the fact that a British
production would probably have used more convincingly-British actors.
So -- this isn't an NBC production, it isn't the maroon-label Thesaurus
production, it doesn't seem to match any 1931 syndicated production, and
I doubt it's British. Does anyone know if *this* is the production
offered as a "1931 BBC drama?"
More important, can anyone identify the actual source? Someone out there
must have the original discs to this -- and if so, *please* speak up! I
get a feeling we're onto something.
Elizabeth
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 22:18:00 -0500
From: "welsa" <welsa@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Cheerios / Lone Ranger
On November 10, sanctumotr@[removed] wrote:
Derek Tague (of the FOTR committee) just informed me of a new
Cheerios-LONE
RANGER tie-in that's currently in grocery stores.
Hmm--apparently this is not everywhere. I've checked several grocers in
southern Wisconsin and they do not have it.
:((
Ted
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 23:12:56 -0500
From: JayHick@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: God Bless America
Kate Smith first sang this song on Armistice Day, November 11, 1938. It
mentions that on the sheet music.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 23:31:18 -0500
From: Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Re: More Paper Discs
Harlan Zinck mentions:
I've also seen a number of cardboard-based disks produced in the early
1930's containing parts of Rudy Vallee's "Fleischmann Hour" shows - but I'll
leave the description of them to Elizabeth, who not only transferred them
but also knows considerably more about them than I do.
These were among the oddest discs I've ever worked on - they're a sort of
heavy, rigid blue-green fibreboard laminated with a transparent celluloid
layer which contains the actual grooves. What makes them really odd is
that they were *pressings* of WEAF airchecks, made for Vallee by the
Scully Recording Company of Bridgeport, Connecticut -- that is, the
original recordings were cut on a wax master, which was then processed
and copies pressed just like a commercial phonograph record. The only
real reason I can come up with for why they would have gone to the extra
trouble of doing this was that Vallee might have been distributing copies
of the programs to guest stars, and pressings would have offered better
audio quality than dubbed aluminum-disc copies.
In addition to these fibreboard discs, the Scully company also made
pressings for Vallee on brown flexible acetate (the real stuff, with the
strange pencil-eraser smell). All of the discs of this type that I've
seen date between June and November, 1933. All are 12" discs recorded at
33 1/3 rpm, and like most of Rudy's discs, have been played just about to
death.
I've often wondered if this Scully Recording Company was in any way
connected to the organization that made the well-known Scully recording
lathes a few years later, but have never found any positive evidence one
way or the other. I've also wondered if Scully did similar recording work
for clients other than Vallee -- his are the only discs of this type I've
ever handled.
Elizabeth
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 23:49:16 -0500
From: OTRChris@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Re: TV eclipses radio
In regard to the I LOVE LUCY episode where they don't know what to do
that evening when the TV breaks down I have to wonder if it is a little bit
of TV's exageration of its own importance at the time. We have to be
careful what we accept as historical . In 1952 I know of many people who were
yet to have their own TV set yet. In addition the FCC freeze was still in
effect.
Just my thoughts.
-Chis
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 00:13:51 -0500
From: Fred Berney <berney@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Re: Paper Records
Back in the last 1950's, I bought some paper, actually more like cardboard,
disks to use at a carnival. We offered "cut your own record" for something
like 50 cents. I think I paid about a quarter for them. But, the sound was
poor and I ended up wearing out my stylus faster than I did with regular
acetates. So, I just dropped the whole idea of using them.
I still have about a dozen or so of things I recorded. I even when so far
as to record a few X Minus Ones on them directly from the radio. Direct to
disk. But, my tapes of the same shows sound a lot better.
Years ago, my grandparents gave me some of their records. Some of them were
actually "pressed" onto card board. The were one sided. I think it was
something like the "hit of the week". Mostly songs I've never heard of. It
seems one of my uncles was very instrumental into bringing radios and
records into the Johnstown, PA area. I think he had a store in Pittsburgh.
and had the first radio store in Johnstown. Anyway, a lot of these records
came from his store.
I had another uncle that had some connection to Bing Crosby. Or maybe it
was to Decca. He once played a recording for me of Bing Crosby singing a
song that he had forgotten the lyrics and use a couple of swear words in
place of the real ones.
This was the uncle that use to play Pinochle with David Suskind on a weekly
basis.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 15:48:18 -0500
From: "Philip Railsback" <philiprailsback@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: OTR Prognosticators?
But that was in the movie theaters. Were there any radio broadcasters
known for evangelizing progress and painting a fanciful picture of the
world of tomorrow
Seven or eight years ago I heard a radio show you'd love. I cannot remember
the name of it, though it was sponsored by Lockheed. I don't know if it was
a one time show or a series. Unfortunately I have completely forgoteen the
name of the show. It was hosted by Orson Welles. This particular episode
(assuming it was some kind of series) was broadcast late in 1944, when the
war had already been decided but was still going full blast. The first half
the show was a kind of cheerleading propaganda kind of thing. Nicely done,
and quite moving in parts, particularly when Welles told a story about some
sailors that had been killed. The second half of the show was bizarre and
absolutely wonderful as Welles talked about what the world after the war
would be like. Flash foward to 1947 or so when every family would have
their personal plane, and dad would step out the door, go to the garage and
get the plane to fly to work. Obviously Lockheed was wondering how they
were going to keep those production lines going. This was one idea,
convincing every family that they just had to have a plane. Anyway, the
show got more and more fanciful as cities and everyday life were all based
around great new planes of the future. It wasn't just Welles talking;
little vignettes were acted out showing how wonderful life would be in the
future. I'm sure they seemed marvelous back then, but it's all quite
ridiculous now. Wonderfully ridiculous, I might add.
I'm sure that someone here knows the show I'm talking about. Least I hope
so. I'd sure love to track it down.
- Philip
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 15:48:35 -0500
From: GEORGE WAGNER <gwagneroldtimeradio@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Two Questions for Elizabeth
Elizabeth, you mention groove creep in the
Memovox recordings, where the grooves themselves tend
to close up over the years.
Isn't this also the problem with aluminum
recordings from the early 1930s? Aluminum being such a
soft metal, I've long assumed that the grooves would
tend to flow closed with the passage of decades.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
The second question has doubtless been asked and
answered here before, but if so I missed it. What
exactly is the really strange pre-chimes sound heard
at the end of very early 1930s NBC programs? This
sound fascinates me, but I can't quite place it. To my
tin ear it sounds like the breakup strand of the
National Anthem of Mars.
Sincere thanks.
George Wagner
GWAGNEROLDTIMERADIO@[removed]
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 15:53:17 -0500
From: Conrad Binyon <conradab@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Wasn't that.,......?
Dennis Crow <DCrow3@[removed]; asked:
re the Lucy 50th Anniversary [removed]
Wasn't that Harry Bartell who "sat" William Holden at his table during
[removed]
Yes, Dennis, it was.
And you also saw Frank Nelson as the train conductor who asked
Lucy if she stopped the train by pulling the emergency stop cord.
Elvia Allman as the candy factory supervisor who called for
the conveyor belt machine operator to "Speed it up."
And Jerry Hausner as the commercial assistant director who told
us viewer that those bottles of Vitavegamine contained 23 percent
alcohol.
CAB
--
conradab@[removed] (Conrad A. Binyon)
From the Home of the Stars who loved Ranches and Farms
Encino, California.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 15:54:01 -0500
From: Bhob Stewart <bhob2@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: BBC Radio
the young man, whose name escapes me, wrote the second episode, I
think, and the one about the Nazi death camp.
John Orloff wrote episode two and episode nine of BAND OF BROTHERS. The
series was carried in the UK on BBC2, where it received an
overwhelmingly favorable reaction, as evident on this lengthy page of
viewer comments:
[removed]
m
To bring this topic drift back to radio:
Many past BBC Radio productions are easily available in the USA on audio
cassettes from BBC America (Bethesda, Maryland) as part of the “BBC
Radio Presents” series. Just phone 1-800-216-1BBC, extension 18 and
request a free catalog. Or go to [removed] and click
on “Audio Books.” Despite the audiobooks label, these are full
production dramatizations, not readings.
Bhob @ ShowBiz @ [removed]
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 15:54:11 -0500
From: "Scott Eberbach" <seberbach@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Libraries
Hi All!
I have never really understood why a collector would *donate* a large number
of discs to a library and then place all sorts of legal restrictions on the
use and availability of said discs! Sort of defeats the purpose of a
lending institution in my opinion. It would make a lot more sense to donate
the discs to institutions such as SPERDVAC or The Radio Archives for
preservation of a special part of [removed] least they could be cared for
properly. Perhaps someone could explain the logic behind all these legal
restrictions.
Scott
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 15:54:16 -0500
From: "Mark Kinsler" <kinsler33@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: From the New York Times
This is a link to a long article about National Public Radio and how it
decides what programming to eliminate. I'm posting it here because there's
a mention of radio drama. Apparently nobody much likes to listen to it, or
so their surveys show.
[removed];ei=1&en=5
27fa95b8fa0b357
M Kinsler
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 15:54:42 -0500
From: "[removed]" <swells@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Hoarders, Lucy, and Libraries
Unfortunately, this is the "nature of the beast." There are some that
actually believe that the Lib. Of Congress is the ultimate home of OTR, but
rest assured, that this is not the case. As a matter of fact, there are
shows that exist that people don't speak of, trade, or otherwise acknowledge
their existence. There are "one or two shows" in private hands and in
"private collections" that will more than likely not surface.
Anyway, there is plenty available to enjoy, weather you like them on
tape, CD, CD/mp3, or inscribed on parchment in ancient Greek.
Shawn
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 15:56:35 -0500
From: Harry Bartell <bartell@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Lucy
Dennis Crow wrote:
Wasn't that Harry Bartell who "sat" William Holden at his table during the
famous episode where Lucy proceeds to drive the star nuts gawking at him
eating? Mr. Bartell, as the chief waiter, eventually moved a plant between
Lucy and Ethel's booth and actor Holden. Finally Holden exacts revenge by
staring at Lucy! This episode was featured as the fifth "favorite" of all
Lucy episodes.
The answer is yes. I didn't see the anniversary program but I was told
that the eighth choice among the favorites was The Great Train Robbery
in which I played the jewel thief.
Working with Lucy was something out of the [removed] had an amazing
control of the medium. She could sense the location of each of the three
cameras at all times.
She continued to improvise right up to and through performance but the
other actors always got the correct cue. She was a worry wart but a warm,
charming person along with being a comic genius. I cannot say the same
for the others in the regular cast.
I had a wonderful experience in working with Joan Davis and Lucy almost
back-to-back Joan took a comedy bit and broke it down into little pieces
and carefully put them together again to fit her style. Lucy's attack
was head-on and [removed] she was always right.
Sorry, Charlie. It ain't radio but the man asked.
--------------------------------
End of [removed] Digest V2001 Issue #365
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