Subject: [removed] Digest V2003 #447
From: <[removed]@[removed]>
Date: 12/17/2003 8:36 PM
To: <[removed]@[removed];

------------------------------


                            The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                              Volume 2003 : Issue 447
                         A Part of the [removed]!
                                 ISSN: 1533-9289


                                 Today's Topics:

  Re: Expressions used on OTR           [ Louis Giliberto <kd7hcw@[removed]; ]
  Re: A public service                  [ hal stone <dualxtwo@[removed]; ]
  Today in radio history                [ Joe Mackey <joemackey108@[removed] ]
  Re: Expressions used on OTR - Blackh  [ Joe Mackey <joemackey108@[removed] ]
  DVD too good to be true               [ "david rogers" <david_rogers@hotmai ]
  Re: Nostalgia Ain't What It Used To   [ Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed] ]
  RE: Superman and Clayton "Bud" Colly  [ [removed]@[removed] ]
  Superman and Clayton "Bud" Collyer    [ "Michael Delisa" <mdelisa@bormarlaw ]
  Bud Collyer                           [ <otrbuff@[removed]; ]
  Costco question                       [ <nemesis@[removed]; ]
  Jonathan Thomas OTR                   [ "Kathleen Perry" <Bonka@[removed]; ]
  DVDs arrived                          [ Richard Carpenter <newsduck@[removed] ]
  Collyer led 3 lives                   [ "MICHAEL BIEL" <mbiel@[removed]; ]
  Re: 'Twas the Night Before Christmas  [ "MICHAEL BIEL" <mbiel@[removed]; ]
  Re: Superman and Clayton "Bud" Colly  [ Art Chimes <achimes@[removed]; ]
  Blackhawk radio show                  [ JOSEPH THOMS <jftesq@[removed]; ]
  12-18 births/deaths                   [ Ron Sayles <bogusotr@[removed]; ]
  Captain Midnight                      [ "JLF" <infom@[removed]; ]

______________________________________________________________________

    ADMINISTRIVIA:

    With all the excitement over the past week, I'm a little behind
    getting the Fundraiser Disc orders out. Orders from last week
    and this one are NOT out yet, but I'm hoping to get them out
    tomorrow, Friday at the latest. Apologies, and thanks.

    More on the excitement of the past week a little later, once I
    get more of the website kinks worked out. (The lists are working
    just peachie, so I can start attending to the web glitches.)  --cfs3

______________________________________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 09:30:33 -0500
From: Louis Giliberto <kd7hcw@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Re: Expressions used on OTR

Ken asked:

Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 02:45:18 -0500
From: KENPILETIC@[removed]
Subject:  Expressions used on OTR - Blackhawk

He used the expression "Sacre Bleu !" whenever
anything unusual happened. Since this was in the
late fortys or early fifties, it couldn't be anything
"dirty",  but to this day, nobody has been able to
tell me what it means.  I  asked some
French->speaking friends, and they translated the
phrase >to "Sacred Blue" in English.

This doesn't mean anything to me.  Sacred Blue
what?  Does anybody know what the expression means
(besides Sacred Blue)?  Does anybody remember
Blackhawk?

Sacre Bleu does translate literally to "Sacred Blue"
which metaphorically means "By the blue heavens!" or
to a Catholic Frenchman possibly, "By Mary's Blue
Veil!" (her veil sometimes symbolically representing
the heavens).

I apologize in advance if the true meanings of these
expressions offend anyone.  I offer them for
completeness of explanation.

"By the blue heavens" naturally means "Oh my God!"

You may hear a Southern Italian (or Sicilian such as
my father) saying "Marone!"  Which is slang dialect
for "Maddona!" [removed], "By Mary!"  I heard that a lot as
a teenager usually when I did something [removed]

Back in a more genteel time no one would dare say
these things directly. This type of "oath by metaphor"
was fairly common.  For example, "Zounds!" actually
means "By Zeus' Wounds!" which is a metaphor for "By
Christ's Wounds!"  Also people would say "By Zeus!" or
"By Jove!" instead of "By God!"  Obviously, Zeus as
head of the Greek pantheon and Jove (Jupiter) as head
of the Roman pantheon would represent God (and
therefore Christ to a Christian).  Then of course
there was "Ye Gods!" used by my 8th grade English
teacher which is also a polite way of saying "By all
the Saints in Heaven!"

"Jinkies" made popular by Velma in Scooby Doo has no
meaning that I know of.  But Scooby Doo was named
after Frank Sinatra's practice to "scat" or sing
"scoobie doobie doo" in Strangers In The Night.  Kinda
funny.  BTW, Scooby is based on a Great Dane and is
one of my son's favorite cartoons.

Another interesting word/phrase is "hocus pocus".  If
you look in a modern politically correct dictionary,
it says something like "a fake Latin phrase used by
jugglers."

That's not completely true.  It was actually used by
Protestants to mock the words a Latin Rite Roman
Catholic priest says during the Mass when Catholics
believe the bread and wine become the Body and Blood
of Christ:  "Hoc est enim Corpus Meum" ("This
therefore is My Body").  Protestants of course do not
believe that transubstantiation occurs and poked fun
at it.  "Hocus pocus" became the standard "magic
words" out of this in modern parlance (thus used by
jugglers who often did magic) and no longer has a
derrogatory meaning in common usage.  So, you
magicians can go nuts without offending anyone.

Abracadabra is also referred to Latin in modern
dictionaries, but actually come from Middle-Ages
wizards who were working grimoires based on the
Kaballah.  It comes from the name of a Gnostic deity
-- Abraxas.  It was kind of a Middle-Ages Latin
bastardization of Abraxas for use in amulets and
stuff.

There are other phrases and oaths that come from
theological derivations such as "Holy Smokes!", etc.

I've never heard Blackhawk (new to OTR) and I'm 34 so
I wasn't around when most of these terms were in
common usage (though I use "Holy Smokes!" myself), but
sometimes High School Latin and a Jesuit education
comes in handy :-)

Hope this helps out and is at least found interesting
if not actually correct.

-Lou

=====
"That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die."
-- Abdul Alhazred ("The Necronomicon") via H. P. Lovecraft

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 10:16:09 -0500
From: hal stone <dualxtwo@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Re: A public service

Hi all, and our very best wishes to you for a Merry Christmas, a happy
Hanukah, and a healthy, Happy New Year.

That said, (sincerely, I might add), I just wish to bring some enlightenment
to those in need.

I just received a private E-mail (from a person who shall remain nameless),
which said?

Where to Get  "Aw! Relax, Archie! Re-Laxx!.

Web site?  Mail?

Or used $100 bills in a brown envelope left in a hollow tree on the
last Monday before the first full moon?

Apparently, I haven't mentioned the ordering info often enough, or, the
"wise guy" (er! Discerning individual with extraordinary literary taste) is
a brand spanking new "newbie" to the Digest.

I have held off "pushing" book sales, not wishing to sound like some other
people I know. (And I don't mean my buddies Martin Grams, Jim Cox and Chuck
Schaden). :)

But just in case anyone out there gives a rats patootie, here's the link to
the web site that contains the ordering info for my book.

[removed]

All the best

Hal & Dorothy Stone
"Jughead" and Mrs. Jughead

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 10:16:18 -0500
From: Joe Mackey <joemackey108@[removed];
To: otrd <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Today in radio history

 From Those Were The Days --

1936 - Ventriloquist Edgar Bergen kidded around with his pal, Charlie
McCarthy (who was a bit wooden, we [removed]), for the first time on
radio. The two debuted on The Rudy Vallee Show on NBC. Soon, Bergen
became one of radio's hottest properties, and was called Vallee's
greatest talent discovery.

Joe

--
Visit my homepage:  [removed]~[removed]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 10:16:54 -0500
From: Joe Mackey <joemackey108@[removed];
To: otrd <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Re: Expressions used on OTR - Blackhawk

  Ken Piletic asked --

He used the expression "Sacre Bleu !" whenever anything unusual
happened.

   It's a version of the French expression "sacred Dieu" (Holy God) much
as English speakers would say "Good God".  Translated it would be "Holy
Blue" similar to saying "Good Golly".
   Joe

--
Visit my homepage:  [removed]~[removed]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 10:17:22 -0500
From: "david rogers" <david_rogers@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  DVD too good to be true

Fred Berney wrote:

But, to get back to what Martin said, unless these are commercially
replicated and authored DVDs, they can't have that much quality if they are
putting 5 or 6 hours of video on a single sided DVD.

That is of course if quality is what you are looking for.  Of course with
some things and with some situations the quality may not be the main
concern.

Love as always, David Rogers

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 11:06:18 -0500
From: Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Re: Nostalgia Ain't What It Used To Be

On 12/17/03 9:33 AM [removed]@[removed] wrote

For those of you who long to go
back to the days when everything was clean and nice, remember that
everything in the real world wasn't so clean and nice as it was portrayed
in mainstream OTR.

Personally, as someone who's spent her entire adult life studying not
just OTR, but the OTR Era itself, I can say with some confidence that
it's a fascinating place to visit -- but as a woman, as an American, as a
sentient human being, I certainly wouldn't have wanted to live there.

I grew up listening to my grandparents' stories of life during the
Depression -- they used to watch "The Waltons" and sneer at the idealized
picture of rural poverty that that series presented. And having spent a
lot of time digging into the realities of that particular period, I can
point out that --

As of 1939, less than half -- 43 per cent -- of American families fit the
"traditional" pattern: working father, homemaker mother, and children.
(1940 US Census)

Approximately 17 to 18 per cent of new marriages ended in divorce during
the 1930s. It was however far more difficult to *get* a divorce in 1939
than it is today due to the nature of the divorce laws then on the books.
Desertion was common as an alternative to legal divorce. (1941 World
Almanac)

Dad went to work -- but only if Dad was lucky enough to have a job. The
national unemployment rate in 1939 stood at approximately 17 per cent,
meaning about ten million people were jobless. Although there had been
recovery since the 25 per cent unemployment rates of 1932-33, the
Depression was still far from over, and the comfortable middle-class way
of life one might associate with the fifties was unattainable for the
average American family at the dawn of the forties. (1941 World Almanac)

A middle-class income in 1939 would figure out to about $2000-$2500 per
year, while the average family of four was getting by on approximately
$1700. According to a January 1940 government study, nearly half of all
American children were growing up in poverty, and one-third of all
American families earned less than $780 per year. (1941 World Almanac)

The childbirth death rate stood at 51 out of every 1000 births. (1941
World Almanac)

The nationwide murder rate in 1939 was [removed] murders per 100,000 people:
approximately what it is today. (National Center for Health Statistics)

[removed] per cent of Americans over the age of 25 had completed high school.
(1940 US Census)

4 per cent of Americans over the age of 25 had completed college. (1940
US Census)

[removed] per cent of American adults were illiterate. (1940 US Census)

And yes, to get back to the original subject of this thread,  people
swore. A lot. My grandfather was a time capsule of Depression-era slang,
a substantial percentage of which was scatalogical, blasphemous, or
obscene. Or all three. And hearing him carry on as he tried to start the
lawn mower taught me some clever turns of phrase that would probably
blister the ears of even the toughest old Army guys out there reading
this. On the other hand, I never once heard him say "Golly," "Gee Whiz,"
"Gosh All Fishhooks," or "Dad-rat It."

Now, there's a lot that's unpleasant about the world we currently live in
-- but it accomplishes nothing to use an idealized, mythologized past as
an escape from the realities of the present, even though it's human
nature to *want* that idealized past. As Benjamin Franklin once wrote,
"The 'Golden Age' is never the Present Age."

Elizabeth

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 11:06:48 -0500
From: [removed]@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  RE: Superman and Clayton "Bud" Collyer
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A 'few' years ago, on the Johnny Carson show, Bud Collyer, of game show
fame, and a bunch of associates (I don't recall if any of them were from the
original series) did a recreation of a Superman radio show from the forties.
I was enthralled! It was the same voice I had remembered from so long ago. I
know that many of the Carson Tonight shows are available on VHS; I suppose
it's too much to hope for that show to be on one of them. Does anyone out
there know???

[removed] Druian

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Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 11:37:50 -0500
From: "Michael Delisa" <mdelisa@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Superman and Clayton "Bud" Collyer
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Yes, they are one and the same.  His son, Michael Collyer, is a
well-respected entertainment lawyer.

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Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 12:10:55 -0500
From: <otrbuff@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Bud Collyer

David Martin inquired if the voice playing Superman on radio was the same
guy who hosted TV's To Tell the Truth years later.  Very much so.  In fact,
Clayton (Bud) Collyer was a perennial resident on roughly four dozen
broadcast series, to wit:

ANNOUNCER:
The Benny Goodman Show
Big Sister
The Cavalcade of America
The Guiding Light
The Goldbergs
House in the Country
Mary Small
The Philip Morris Playhouse
The Raleigh Room
Road of Life
The Sheaffer Review
Silver Theater
Stage Door Canteen
The Story of Mary Marlin
Truth or Consequences
Quiz of Two Cities

HOST:
By Popular Demand
Listening Post

ACTOR:
Abie's Irish Rose
The Adventures of Superman
Chick Carter, Boy Detective
Chips Davis, Commando
High Places
Hillbilly Heart Throbs
Joyce Jordan, M. D.
Just Plain Bill
Kate Hopkins, Angel of Mercy
Kitty Foyle
Life Can Be Beautiful
The Man I Married
Pretty Kitty Kelly
Terry and the Pirates
Young Widder Brown

MASTER OF CEREMONIES/QUIZMASTER:
Beat the Clock
Break the Bank
Bride and Groom
On Your Mark
Three for the Money
Times a-Wastin'
Winner Take All

TV EMCEE:
Beat the Clock
Break the Bank
Feather Your Nest
Masquerade Party
Number Please
This Is the Missus
To Tell the Truth

TV VOICE-OVER:
Superman

--from The Great Radio Audience Participation Shows (MacFarland, 2001)

Jim Cox

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 12:11:05 -0500
From: <nemesis@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Costco question

A while back someone posted that OTR boxes were available at Costco.  I
can't find them at our local store (Bakersfield, CA) or on the website.
What am I missing in the search? (Reply off-list, if you'd like)
Linda T.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 12:28:53 -0500
From: "Kathleen Perry" <Bonka@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Jonathan Thomas OTR
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I too enjoyed the Cinnamon Bear serial but never heard it as a kid in the
50'[removed] it got old hat by then. Thanks Kermyta! for the Heads Up on the
OTR Jonathan Thomas and His Christmas on the Moon.  I am always looking for
shows such as these for the grandkids.

Talking about the DVD compression, sound quality etc brings up a question
which may be for another type of "list",  so forgive me, but this is the only
one I have just recently subscribed to and the topic has probably been beaten
into the ground here before so would you please just answer me [removed]
not if you think it will help others.

What is the most efficient way to copy MP3 OTR shows to CD's when you have a
serial such as the Cinnamon Bear.  It took 4 disks using Windows Media/Roxio
to copy the serial.  Was it just my unfamiliarity with the software or could I
have gotten all 25 episodes on one CD? I know you folks are "pros" at this by
now so ....suggestions please I have many more to do. I have noticed that
those who sell CD's of the radio shows can put alot of episodes on [removed]
is it done?

Thanks in advance!!
Kathleen Perry
bonka@[removed]

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Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 12:38:30 -0500
From: Richard Carpenter <newsduck@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  DVDs arrived

For those who have asked or commented, my $[removed] "50
Classic Movies" DVD set arrived the other day. They
are double-sided DVDs, and not DVD-Rs, usually with
two movies on each side. I briefly previewed about 10
films, and found the quality ranged from quite good
(the silent "Paleface" with Buster Keaton to fair (an
East Side Kids saga) to, in just one instance
("Medicine Man" with Jack Benny), not good. However,
at this price I wasn't expecting meticulous
restorations and think that even "Medicine Man" will
be watchable, at least once.

Of course, my standards may not be that high, seeing
that my introduction to some of these titles came in
the early 1950s on a tiny black-and-white TV, enlarged
by a magnifying glass, and (briefly) colorized by a
transparent, tricolor, stick-on screen. My  radio, on
the other hand, came in loud and clear (although there
was that AM static ...).

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 12:53:13 -0500
From: "MICHAEL BIEL" <mbiel@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Collyer led 3 lives

David <dbmartin5@[removed]; asked if Clayton "Bud" Collyer was radio's
Superman and the host of the TV game show "To Tell The Truth."  Yes he was
the original host on that program, and earlier he was the host of TV's Beat
the Clock.  Both of these have had extensive runs recently on Game Show
Network.  He also was the voice of Superman in the 1940s theatrical
cartoons, and these are quite readily available on DVD.  However there is
no relationship between him and Clayton "Bud" Goulding, who in reality was
Ray Goulding of Bob and Ray.  He was the genial announcer of "Ladies Grab
Your Seats"  on the RCA Victor Living Stereo LP "Bob and Ray On A Platter."

Michael Biel  mbiel@[removed]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 13:26:19 -0500
From: "MICHAEL BIEL" <mbiel@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Re: 'Twas the Night Before Christmas

I've received a report back from Peter T. Kiefer of the Fred Waring archive
Fred Waring's America at Penn State.  You might as well call off the search
for a more complete recording of the Ken Darby arrangement of "'Twas the
Night Before Christmas"  He reports:  "I know the actual poem had more
text, however Ken Darby, who wrote the music decided to not use all the
text. We have a copy of his original manuscript. So the Waring version is
as complete as Ken Darby wrote it and runs @ 6:50."

So, not only does the sheet music of the arrangement omit some of the poem,
the original handwritten manuscript also does. (Should it be renamed "'Twas
Most of the Night Before Christmas"?) :-)   Of course, someone could decide
to augment that arrangement with some inclusions and make a new recording,
but apparently nobody has yet seen a need to do so.

Michael Biel  mbiel@[removed]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 22:30:55 -0500
From: Art Chimes <achimes@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Re: Superman and Clayton "Bud" Collyer

To answer David's question, Bud Collyer (1908-1969, born as Clayton
Johnson Heermance, Jr.) was indeed *both* radio's Man of Steel and the
mild-mannered host of To Tell The Truth and several other quiz shows.

According to [removed], he reprised his Superman role in the animated
New Adventures of Superman (1966-69), playing opposite Joan Alexander,
who was Lois Lane on radio also.

Bud Collyer was educated as a lawyer, but he left the law after a couple
of years. He was heard on numerous other radio programs, including
Abie's Irish Rose, Renfrew of the Mounted, The March of Time and The
Cavalcade of America.

Regards
Art

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 22:31:02 -0500
From: JOSEPH THOMS <jftesq@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Blackhawk radio show

Was there a "Blackhawk" radio show?  I know there was
a movie serial.  If there was one, any information
would be greatly appreciated as "Blackhawk" was one of
my favorite comics.

Happy holidays,
Joe Thoms

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 22:31:12 -0500
From: Ron Sayles <bogusotr@[removed];
To: Olde Tyme Radio List <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  12-18 births/deaths

December 18th births

12-18-1864 - S. Parkes Cadman - Wellington, Shropshire, England - d. 7-12-1936
preacher: "National Radio Pulpit"
12-18-1885 - J. Anthony Smythe - San Francisco, CA - d. 3-20-1966
actor: "Carefree Carnival"; Henry Barbour "One Man"s Family"
12-18-1890 - Edwin H. Armstrong - NYC - d. 1-31-1954
inventor: FM radio
12-18-1910 - Abe Burrows - Brooklyn, NY - d. 5-17-1985
writer: "Abe Burrows Show"; "Danny Kaye Show"; "Duffy"s Tavern"
12-18-1913 - Lynn Bari - Roanoke,  VA - d. 11-20-1989
actress: "Dan Carson"
12-18-1916 - Betty Grable - St. Louis, MO - d. 7-2-1973
actress: "Hollywood Showcase"; "Screen Guild Theatre"; "So You Want to Lead a
Band"
12-18-1917 - Ossie Davis - Cogdell, GA
actor: "Cavalcade of America"

December 18th deaths

01-14-1915 - Mark Goodson - Sacremento, CA - d. 12-18-1992
producer, director: "Portia Faces Life"; "Stop the Music"
06-14-1919 - Sam Wanamaker - Chicago, IL - d. 12-18-1993
actor: Ellis Smith "Guiding Light"; "Lone Journey"
06-25-1903 - Anne Revere - NYC - d. 12-18-1990
actress: "Cavalcade of America"
10-07-1926 - Diana Lynn - Los Angeles, CA - d. 12-18-1971
actress: "Theatre Guild on the Air"

Ron Sayles
Milwaukee, Wisconsin

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 22:31:21 -0500
From: "JLF" <infom@[removed];
To: "[removed]" <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Captain Midnight

I am looking for some mp3's of Captain Midnight from the 1946 thru 1949 era.

JLF

--------------------------------
End of [removed] Digest V2003 Issue #447
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