------------------------------
The Old-Time Radio Digest!
Volume 2002 : Issue 65
A Part of the [removed]!
ISSN: 1533-9289
Today's Topics:
Lone [removed] verses Beemer [ "Ryan Osentowski" <rosentowski@neb. ]
On this day a few years ago [ "George Coppen*" <gacoppen@[removed] ]
Verse by the Side of the Road [ nikurashi@[removed] ]
Farmer's Doc Savage [ John Mayer <mayer@[removed]; ]
groucho ad [removed] [ jao@[removed] (Joseph Onorato) ]
Regional and International variation [ "Ian Grieve" <ian@[removed] ]
Re: Verse by the side of ... Arnold [ Gerry Wright <gdwright@[removed]; ]
Re: Newspaper radio listings [ Eric J Cooper <ejcooper2002@[removed] ]
Trademarks and identifications [ "Ed Ellers" <ed_ellers@[removed]; ]
HELLO & A QUICK QUESTION [ Kevin Michaels <kmichaels@doityours ]
Searching for WE THE PEOPLE [ HERITAGE4@[removed] ]
Book source [ "vegan" <vegan@[removed]; ]
Groucho's ad libs [ "A. Joseph Ross" <lawyer@attorneyro ]
NBC radio network [ "A. Joseph Ross" <lawyer@attorneyro ]
#OldRadio IRC Chat this Thursday Nig [ lois@[removed] ]
______________________________________________________________________
ADMINISTRIVIA:
We all join Mr. Coppen, who has posted below, in wishing
Lois Culver a Happy Birthday!
______________________________________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 21:14:42 -0500
From: "Ryan Osentowski" <rosentowski@[removed];
To: "old time radio" <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Lone [removed] verses Beemer
Hi all:
I have had the pleasure of listening to some of the older episodes of the
Lone Ranger, starring Earle Graser. It has given me an opportunity to
compare the Graser years to the Beemer years.
First, right off the bat, I must say that it took me a while to get used to
Mr. Graser as the masked man of the plains. Ever since I started collecting
otr at age 12, the Lone Ranger was Brace Beemer. Actually, before I started
collecting otr, I did have one cassette of the Lone Ranger, with Mr. Beemer
in the starring role. This was before I knew what otr was. So it is safe
to say that I grew up with Beemer as the Lone Ranger. Listening to Earle
Graser play him took some getting used to. I must say that I do prefer
Beemer's depiction of the masked man and I feel he was a better star of the
show than he was as a narrator. However, the character himself seems quite
different during the Graser years than he was when Beemer took over.
Beemer's masked man could be tough and heroic when necessary, but he also
had a compassionate, gentle side that would occasionally peek through. This
was especially evident when Dan Reed was featured in the stories. Graser,
on the other hand, seems hard and tough and this shows through in his voice.
In a way, this might be a more accurate portrayal, considering the origins
of the Lone Ranger and his anger toward injustice and outlaws. I guess this
should not surprise me, since the same thing happened with the evolution of
the Shadow and Superman. Still, it took some getting used to.
During the Graser years, the role of the Lone Ranger seems to be more that
of vigilante, asopposed to a super hero aiding the law, during the Beemer
years. In one episode, he kidnaps a young man wrongly accused of being a
coward, giving him no choice but to come along. I've heard Beemer's Ranger
kidnap people from time to time, but they were all villains and deserved it.
I have also heard the Lone Ranger and Tonto take the law into their own
hands with criminals. In another episode where a Mexican is helping the son
of a railroad owner sabotage the railroad, the masked man and indian pay the
Mexican a visit late at night at his cabin. After questioning him, they
proceed to beat up on the Mexican. You don't hear this, but it is made
perfectly clear what will happen when the masked man says, "we know how to
deal with your kind, don't we Tonto." Tonto laughs menacingly and then the
music comes up. There also seems to be an aspect of raw violence in the
Graser episodes that I've not found in the later ones. In this same
episode, involving the railroad, the rich son threatens to slit the
Mexican's throat if he ever talks. In another episode, a rancher sicks a
nest of rattlesnakes on an unsuspecting worker because he thinks he's
cheating with his wife. Wow, pretty violent for the kiddies, 'ey?
A couple of other differences I have observed. I've heard 20 Graser
episodes, so I know this may not be representative, but I've never heard the
masked man hand out a silver bullet in these. I also don't hear Dan Reed
appear. Were these aspects of the show that were added later? Also, one of
my favorite actors, Paul Hughes, isn't in any of the Graser shows. Hughes
can be heard in about every Lone Ranger and Green Hornet show and he is
identifiable by his deep, husky voice. John Todd plays Tonto in the earlier
shows and he seems to be the only constant throughout the run of the
program. I also notice that the music is the same classical pieces, but the
arrangements seem to be different. The same was true of the Green Hornet.
What is the story with the music? I also notice very little gunplay in the
Graser shows. The gun sound effects were rather flat, when Graser starred,
so this is no surprise. Still, it is kind of nice to hear the various
outcomes of the show, knowing the Lone Ranger isn't simply going to shoot
the guns out of the hands of the villains, as he too often does later on in
the series.
Overall, once I got used to the Graser shows, I liked them. Maybe its more
reflective of the time period, but there's a rebel in me that likes the more
vigilante masked man. He's kind of like a Green Hornet of the old West.
RyanO
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 21:28:27 -0500
From: "George Coppen*" <gacoppen@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: On this day a few years ago
I would like to take this oppertunity to let the OTR community know that a
great friend of Old Time Radio is celebrating a birthday on February 20th.
This lady, as we all know lives OTR day in and day out. She has and I am
sure she will never stop helping so many of us with endless knowledge
relating to this great hobby. Her weekly Chat room is a great source of info
too and she along with her many friends will answer any questions beginners
and veteran collectors may have each Thursday night
.... "LOIS CULVER "....HAPPY BIRTHDAY
" Did someone say she is now SWEET 17 "
All the Best Lois from that crazy Canadian George
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 22:19:52 -0500
From: nikurashi@[removed]
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Verse by the Side of the Road
Here's one place you can buy it: [removed]
As I mentioned before, give your search engine a chance. All I did was go to
Google, type in "Verse by the Side of the Road," and there appeared several
pages of websites on the subject. I didn't review them all, but the book
costs $[removed] at this site.
Warren Jones
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 23:12:37 -0500
From: John Mayer <mayer@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Farmer's Doc Savage
SanctumOTR@[removed] wrote:
> Bantam Books reprinted all 183 of the original novels
> in paperback beginning in 1964 and then commissioned eight new DOC SAVAGE
> novels, the first by Phillip Jose [removed]
Farmer also wrote at least two Doc Savage/Tarzan pastiches wherein Doc
Savage was called Doc Caliban. The first was a pornographic novel, _A
Feast Unknown_, in which Doc and a character who was plainly Tarzan
seek to destroy one another. I imagine this was written in Farmer's
early, struggling days when it was easiest to find work writing porn.
I'm no authority, but I imagine very little pornography rises to the
level of craftsmanship of this novel, though it was certainly not one of
The Great Books of the Western World. (Do they even publish porno novels
anymore, or is it all on video these days, I wonder. Not counting
romance novels, of course.)
[I recall my friend Karl Edward Wagner's first novel, though it was not
at all erotic, was published by a firm that had specialized in
pornography but was trying to branch out. The only place it could be
found was in the local adult book store. I remember that when I walked
into the store the owner reached under the counter and brought out
_Darkness Weaves_ as soon as he saw me, without my saying a word,
somehow deducing from the appearance of earlier purchasers what I was
probably after. I suppose it was a sort of compliment that I didn't look
like his usual clientele.]
The second was an Ace Double Novel, one novel on one side, flip it
upside down for the other. The Doc "Savage" story was _The Mad Goblin_;
I seem to recall the other side was titled _Lord of the Trees_, but I
could be wrong. This was especially clever as each story described the
same events from the viewpoint of the title character, yet reading the
one did not diminish the enjoyment of the other; I don't recall how
Farmer pulled off the endings without ruining one or the other for the
reader. Certainly the most clever use ever of the Ace Double format.
Farmer also wrote a biography of Doc Savage, _Doc Savage; His
Apocalyptic Life_, in which he revealed that Doc was related to every
fictional adventure hero ever created. Blood will tell, I guess.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 23:14:29 -0500
From: jao@[removed] (Joseph Onorato)
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: groucho ad [removed]
was groucho always [removed]
or a genuine master ad-libber?
(you mean like will rogers or mark twain
and not like bob hope?).... I write not
run this into the [removed] it reminded me of a 'you bet your life'
(ad-lib?) that was censored off a broadcast. woman guest told groucho
she had ten children. "why do you have so many children?" "because I
love children" she replied. groucho:
"I love my cigar too, but I
take it out of my my mouth once in a while".....
my real purpose of this note ...is to recommend your finding and reading
the book: 'groucho [removed] and from groucho marx.'
(correspondence with [removed], harpo, irving berlin, jerry lewis,
eddie cantor, fred allen, harry truman, [removed] time mag.
[removed])
all written to reply to a letter he'd gotten or something he just read
in a newspaper or magazine. spontaneous humor or, scripted form
[removed] I must remember to look up groucho's response to a letter
he got from an official in Fredonia NY who was insulted by the use of
Fredonia in the film, duck soup.
Personally, nearing 72, If I tried to count my blessings, Groucho still
make me laugh. a blessing indeed.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 23:15:42 -0500
From: "Ian Grieve" <ian@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Regional and International variations
In issue 61 Dave Walter asked:
And what other regional and international versions of series are there with
airchecks still in existence? I saw this afternoon where Chuck Schaden has
the premiere episode of the Australian version of "Fibber McGee & Molly"
scheduled for some time in May on "Those Were the Days," and I've heard
Aussie versions of other series (the most immediate coming to mind being
"The Fat Man," "The Shadow" and "Inner Sanctum").
Tough one to answer Dave as there were so many. Some from the top of my
head in my own collection would include Gunsmoke, Suspense, Witches Tales,
Charlie Chan, The Clock, Nightbeat, Ellery Queen, Superman, Tarzan, Quiz
Kids. There were hundreds of series altogether and there were a lot of name
changes. Someone like Grace Gibson productions or Macquarie network may
have bought the rights and scripts for a run of a series and if the series
had not continued in the US but was popular here in Australia, they would
then do their own versions. Or in the case of Inner Sanctum, the US end
wanted too many dollars for the next run so the Australians decided to do
their own version called CREAKING DOOR. Not to be confused with the South
African series of the same name that is in common circulation and probably
came about for the same reason.
Those of you who are Suspense fans may be pleased to know that the scripts
made it to Australia, though the series was given a different title. Some
episodes survive that give the story for some that are officially listed as
missing from the US versions.
Australia also had Six Shooter, but it was an entirely different series
about 8 years before the James Stewart US version. The hero in the
Australian version was some sort of US Government Agent.
I have come to this hobby very recently and am doing my best to learn about
the Australian shows and I hope to discover shows that the US consider
missing but may exist in Australia. I am starting to have some success in
this area and we are building an active Australian group. We have started
to database shows that were made, with as much detail as we can gather and
also to locate exactly what does still exist. Many people on this Digest
have helped with information and also to put other Australians in contact
with me and I hope that the OTR world will benefit from what we discover.
The database will soon be added to a website that is under construction at
the moment and the information will be made available to everybody and I
hope we all build the information together. Such a database will never be
complete and will take years of research to get to the stage we envisage. I
will advise the url when it is ready to start.
Any information or shows associated with Australian OTR would be greatfully
accepted and devoured :)
Ian Grieve
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 23:16:22 -0500
From: Gerry Wright <gdwright@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Re: Verse by the side of ... Arnold Stang
Kenneth Clarke asked:
I'm still looking for a book called "Verse By The Side Of The Road".
Many public libraries have online catalogs which can be searched by a
variety of topics, from the San Francisco Public Library's online
catalog:
Title : The verse by the side of the road : the story of the Burma-Shave
signs and jingles / Frank Rowsome, Jr. ; drawings by Carl Rose.
Publisher : Brattleboro, Vt. : S. Greene Press, [1965].
Kenneth followed with information & question on Arnold Stang
An interesting article with an interview of Stang can be found at:
<[removed];
Stang's film/TV credits can be found at:
<[removed],+Arnold>
Gerry Wright
ZoneZebra Productions
San Francisco
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 00:21:31 -0500
From: Eric J Cooper <ejcooper2002@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Re: Newspaper radio listings
I can remember listings in Pocatello, Idaho as late as the mid-70s which
listed each station separately and then the programs on each station by
time. Today's Los Angeles Times lists by category (News-Talk, Music and
Drama-Comedy-Family, which talkes care of public radio offerings as well
as the KNX Drama Hour
[removed])
Eric Cooper
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 00:24:25 -0500
From: "Ed Ellers" <ed_ellers@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Trademarks and identifications
Lee Munsick (leemunsick@[removed]) wrote:
There was in the 1960s--may still be--a delightful station in the San
Francisco Bay Area called KABL, with a station ID of the ringing of a Cable
Car bell. Get it?
Yep. A clever attempt to hide the fact that that station is licensed to
Oakland, *not* San Francisco. At one time they had a taped ID that had the
cable car bell ringing at the moment that the name "Oakland" was mentioned,
and the FCC smacked them for it.
RCA, of course, is the company which for years couldn't make up its mind
about using the famous "His Master's Voice" logo with "Li'l Nipper" who has
more recently squired a scion.
That wavering seems to be tied into the fact that JVC owns that trademark in
Japan; when RCA started importing Japanese products in the mid-1960s they
apparently couldn't get the Japanese vendors (aside from JVC) to put that
logo or the Victor name on the merchandise, and I believe that had a lot to
do with the decision (in 1968) to stop using the Nipper logo or (aside from
RCA Records) the Victor name. RCA did resume using the Nipper logo on TV
sets in 1978 (and, in 1981, on its first videodisc players), but once again
they couldn't get the logo on VCRs or video cameras because of the JVC
situation, so they dropped it again in 1982.
And for a time Channel 4 in New York wavered back and forth on
call-letters, alternating WNBC and WRCA.
Um, sorta. Before that station was WRCA-TV, it was WNBT, not WNBC-TV.
Their New York radio stations were already WNBC and WNBC-FM before the WRCA
call came in. (The NBC station in Los Angeles was KNBH -- the H stood for
Hollywood -- before it was KRCA.)
But they DID want to have the use of the NBC logo, the strange one with the
sharp-angled "N" and the famous Peacock. Of course these are strictly
visual--or TELEVISION--trademarks.
Uh-uh. The N was the *corporate* logo for NBC, not just for the TV network.
And when the peacock came back it too was a corporate, not only TV, logo,
meant to represent NBC rather than a particular service they provided.
Now, when you see a picture with a newsman or speaker's stand displaying a
microphone with the NBC color logo on it, this could be someone from NBC
TELEVISION nee GE nee RCA nee GE (that's another whole story)...
Or it could be someone from CNBC or MSNBC.
....[removed] could be someone from NBC RADIO which is a totally separate,
unconnected company.
Which appears to be primarily for FM stations now; some of their biggest
affiliates are, so help me, WCBS-FM in New York, KCBS-FM in Los Angeles and
WUSN in Chicago (the station originally owned by Zenith).
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 00:27:04 -0500
From: Kevin Michaels <kmichaels@[removed];
To: "Radio Digest" <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: HELLO & A QUICK QUESTION
Hi, my name is Kevin Michaels, a new subscriber to this wonderful list. I
have a question that I have often wondered about. I know that Amos & Andy
made a fantastic career in radio, but there were other similar acts that did
not, for one reason or the other. There was Moran & Mack (Two Black Crows)
from the Broadway stage, Pic & Pat and Mollasses & January, who appeared on
various Variety shows, but never seemed to be given, (to my knowledge), a
show of their own. Any one know the reason for this?
Kevin M
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 00:27:13 -0500
From: HERITAGE4@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Searching for WE THE PEOPLE
I am looking for a copy of the show, WE THE PEOPLE as broadcast on 1/9/40
with Gabriel Heatter as host, on CBS. Thanks for checking.
Tom Heathwood - Heritage Radio - Boston Heritage4@[removed]
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 00:42:20 -0500
From: "vegan" <vegan@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Book source
In issue #64 Kenneth was searching for a book "Verse By the Side of The
Road". The author is Frank Rowsome [removed] is subtitled "The Story of the
Burma Shave Signs and Jingles" and I have found 297 copies of it for him at
[removed] They are a great source for used books and books can be
searched by author,or title,or by keyword. I hope this will be of help to
him and others looking for those rare treasure [removed] Dezendorf
Florida
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 00:42:53 -0500
From: "A. Joseph Ross" <lawyer@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Groucho's ad libs
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 17:40:01 -0500
From: otrbuff@[removed]
Almost everything he said, in fact, was provided by somebody else. You
didn't think he was staring at the stars when you saw him on TV rubbing
his bushy eyebrows and gazing heavenward, did you?
According to the book =As Long As They're Laughing=, by Robert Dwan, who
directed =You Bet Your Life= for all of its 14 years, the show was
scripted in an open-ended way. This was what Groucho was used to in his
days on stage, and he worked very well with it. The idea was that
Groucho was talented at ad libbing wisecracks, but they didn't want to
leave it completely to chance. So there were writers who came up with
lines, and sometimes they even coached the contestants on things to say
that Groucho could play off of. But Groucho also ad libbed. So the
truth lies in between the extremes. It wasn't entirely ad lib, but
neither was it entirely scripted.
But they never rigged the quiz.
--
A. Joseph Ross, [removed] [removed]
15 Court Square, Suite 210 lawyer@[removed]
Boston, MA 02108-2503 [removed]
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 00:43:30 -0500
From: "A. Joseph Ross" <lawyer@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: NBC radio network
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 16:35:08 -0500
From: leemunsick@[removed]
I believe the new people were from Westwood One, for a time owners of
MBS, and now somehow tied in with what used to be CBS. Who can keep
track?
The new owners were Westwood One, which also owned Mutual. Westwood One
was bought by Infinity, which in turn was bought by CBS/Westinghouse. In
time, both Mutual and NBC radio newscasts originated from the CBS radio
newsroom. I believe that both the Mutual and NBC radio networks have at
this point been discontinued.
I believe that "Infinity Broadcasting" is now the subsidiary corporation
which owns CBS's owned and operated radio stations.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 04:52:00 -0500
From: lois@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: #OldRadio IRC Chat this Thursday Night!
A weekly [removed]
For the best in OTR Chat, join IRC (Internet Relay Chat), StarLink-IRC
Network, the channel name is #OldRadio. We meet Thursdays at 8 PM Eastern
and go on, and on! The oldest OTR Chat Channel, it has been in existence
over five years, same time, same channel!
Our numerous "regulars" include one of the busiest "golden years" actors in
Hollywood; a sound man from the same era who worked many of the top
Hollywood shows; a New York actor famed for his roles in "Let's Pretend" and
"Archie Andrews;" owners of some of the best OTR sites on the Web;
maintainer of the best-known OTR Digest (we all know who he is)..........
and Me
Lois Culver
KWLK Longview Washington (Mutual) 1941-1944)
KFI Los Angeles (NBC) 1944 - 1950
and widow of actor Howard Culver
(For more info, contact lois@[removed])
--------------------------------
End of [removed] Digest V2002 Issue #65
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