------------------------------
The Old-Time Radio Digest!
Volume 2002 : Issue 477
A Part of the [removed]!
ISSN: 1533-9289
Today's Topics:
Joan Shea et al [ "Irene Heinstein" <IreneTH@[removed] ]
Re: My Little Margie [ "Michael Hayde" <mmeajv@[removed]; ]
Re: The Mad Russian [ Robert Griffin <griffinr@[removed]; ]
More re Sports on Network Radio [ Mark J Cuccia <mcuccia@[removed]; ]
George Reeves [ JimInks@[removed] ]
Red Channels, Aware, Elizabeth [ Howard Blue <khovard@[removed]; ]
Re: The Blacklist and Hal Stone, Bud [ SanctumOTR@[removed] ]
Note of Appreciation [ "timl2002" <timl2002@[removed]; ]
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 21:34:43 -0500
From: "Irene Heinstein" <IreneTH@[removed];
To: "OTR" <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Joan Shea et al
I had my say early on regarding the blacklist issue and planned to shut up.
However, Hal, after a prolonged silence is getting in some last licks.
Wow. I discovered another truly wonderful person was interested in
exposing communists in the business. I wonder. Was Joan "responsible" for
the death of anyone. I bet you will proclaim loud and clear. NO WAY!!!
Hal, I really don't know why being a "nice" or "pretty" person is relevant
to you in what seems to be your approval of the actions of self-appointed
"patriots". Why do you choose to link your personal feelings about certain
people with their activism in supporting the blacklist? Don't you have any
friends whose actions you might have disapproved of? I do.
Your nice friends who believed that alleged Communists didn't deserve to
work have something to answer to IMHO. How democratic is that?
Especially since being a member of the Communist Party was not illegal.
Given the shoddy research and spurious "evidence" which caused great harm to
the lives of people whose crime was the exercise of unpopular free speech
and unpopular free assembly guaranteed them by the Constitution, we do have
the right to question the complicit actions of self-proclaimed "patriots",
[removed] those who cooperated, not those who merely opined.
Even if their political views were wrong surely you're not suggesting that
they were an actual threat to anything. Just because Robert Rossen tried
to get some left-wing messages into his films (usually axed by Harry Cohn)
doesn't qualify as a real threat or act of subversion. [From Walter
Bernstein's book about the blacklist, "Inside Out"] That seems to be a
favorite pitch of Red Scare defenders, sending Communist "messages", as if
Americans can't think for themselves.
Just how was OTR threatened by Communists?
In the 50s being in favor of civil rights was also considered subversive and
the undeniable presence of anti-semitism can not be denied. Lots of
foreign-looking Jewish types were guilty for that reason alone. To many,
Jewish and Communist went together, particularly to a lot of those southern
gentlemen on the committees.
I'm a Greek-American and not very proud of my fellow Greek-American, Elia
Kazan for "naming names." I still admire much of his work but he's not a
good guy in my book.
While I can still appreciate and admire the work of many people with whom I
disagree politically I can not admire them personally when their actions,
not their beliefs, are harmful and reckless. I can not understand how
anyone can view them as true patriots. In that regard "nice" is not a
defense.
You fail to acknowledge that there were many "nice" people who were
blacklisted. In the OTR context we've heard nothing but good things said
about Dwight Hauser for example. Also Jean Rouverol (whose book I just
ordered from [removed]) How did you feel about them?
There is no question that Philip Loeb of "The Goldbergs" committed suicide
because of being blacklisted. He was living with the Zero Mostels at the
time and they were the witnesses to his despair. He checked into a hotel
and ended it all. In the movie "The Front", Woody Allen fronts for a
blacklisted writer played by Zero Mostel. Mostel's character's suicide was
dedicated to Philip Loeb. And I deeply regret being deprived of the work
the great Zero Mostel and hundreds of other talented people couldn't do
while they were blacklisted.
Your somewhat insensitive attitude toward such tragic results of the
blacklist are disappointing. No one is saying Budd Collyer, Dwight Weist
or Joan Shea directly were responsible for anyone's suicide, but don't
trivialize the reality of the real harm suffered by people, and don't
dismiss the need for some accountability.
Was the world made safer because of the blacklist? So far no one has
written a book which makes that argument. And except for those in total
denial I suspect a number of people who got caught up in hysteria during
that period probably regret it now.
I am very surprised to find open supporters of the blacklist. It is
definitely not viewed favorably in most quarters. Indeed it is looked upon
historically as a period that should serve as a warning for future
generations. It tells us more about the abuse of Democracy then the fight
against Communism. It was the birth of the word "McCarthyism" which is
defined in the American Heritage Dictionary this way:
NOUN: 1. The practice of publicizing accusations of political
disloyalty or subversion with insufficient regard to evidence. 2. The use of
unfair investigatory or accusatory methods in order to suppress opposition.
To everyone who finds it easy to excuse the excesses of the Red Scare I ask
how they would have felt if their livelihood was taken away from them for
not doing anything wrong, even if one believed their thinking was wrong,
whose lives in many cases were irreparably harmed. We only have one life
to live.
~Irene
[removed] I still like your book :))
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 21:32:13 -0500
From: "Michael Hayde" <mmeajv@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Re: My Little Margie
A. Joseph Ross asks of "My Little Margie"
Was this one of the handful of shows that started first on television and
then went to radio? Or did the radio and TV versions start simultaneously?
Well, if the radio debut date of 12/7/52 is correct (and given "Those Were
the Days'" track record, you might want a second opinion), then the TV
version definitely came first. It was the replacement series for "I Love
Lucy" during the summer of 1952.
Michael
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 22:21:25 -0500
From: Robert Griffin <griffinr@[removed];
To: OldRadio Mailing Lists <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Re: The Mad Russian
I want to thank all those who were kind enough to respond to my query about the Mad Russian The
reason for my interest is that I am going to appear in a Civic Theater production of "You Can't
Take It With You" as the Russian character, Kalenkov. I got the role because I can do a good
(funny?) Russian accent which I believe I acquired from listening to the Mad Russian on radio,
but I couldn't remember the radio show on which he appeared.
Thanks again,
Bob
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 22:20:40 -0500
From: Mark J Cuccia <mcuccia@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: More re Sports on Network Radio
George Aust wrote:
I don't know the answers to most of Mark J. Cuccia's questions re: the
broadcasting of the Rose Bowl games through the years, but I can tell
him that there were no games on Sundays. The city of Pasadena has never
allowed either the Rose Parade or the Rose Bowl game on Sunday's
supposedly because of a promise made to the churches along Colorado
Blvd. that they would postpone festivities to Monday whenever Jan. 1st
fell on the Sabbath.
I forgot about that!
When January 1st falls on a Sunday, the "legal" federal/national holiday
(at least in the US) when there is no mail delivery, banks and stock
markets are closed, etc., is observed on Monday, the second of January.
The last several times that January 1st fell on a Sunday were in 1995,
1989, 1984, and 1978. I do remember that in 1978, the (traditionally New
Years' Day) Bowl Games were played on Monday the 2nd of January, and on
network radio, the Rose Bowl was carried by NBC Radio, the Cotton Bowl was
carried by CBS Radio, and both the Sugar Bowl (early afternoon) and the
Orange Bowl (probably in the evening) were carried by Mutual.
Of course, ABC Radio still hadn't gotten back to carrying long form live
sporting events -- later that year (1978) they would carry the Ali-Spinx
rematch fight but on a separate set of landlines, separate from the
"regular" telco landlines which were still used during the fight to feed
the regular four sequentially fed ABC radio news format short form info
programming. ABC Radio never did "pre-empt" the regular line-up of such
info programs of the four formaqts fed on its "regular" telco landlines
beginning with the 1-1-1968 introduction of those four packages (American
Information, American Entertainment, American Contemporary, American FM),
"just" to carry long-form live play-by-play sporting events. Instead, they
just simply "abandoned" carrying all such long-form events from 1968-78.
CBS Radio, NBC Radio, and Mutual Radio did continue to "pre-empt" all
regularly scheduled program feeds whenever they carried long-form sports
events, until satellite delivery began to take effect in the early 1980's,
and then there could be multiple simultaneous programming being fed over
separate satellite channel feeds.
However, I do remember in the 1970's, whenever a football, baseball, or
basketball game was carried by the CBS RAD))|((O NETWORK, all regularly
scheduled short-form programming (and long-form feeds such as some of the
evening feeds of Mystery Theater, Adventure Theater, or Sears Radio
Theater) which would have aired during that time of the broadcast of the
game/event, such as the houly news, commentaries, etc. would be cancelled
or pre-empted. [removed] during the half-time period on the football
games, or between innings on baseball games, or sometime during a break in
a basketball game, etc., the sportscasters at the stadium, arena, etc.
(Win Elliot, Vin Scully, Brent Musberger, etc) would announce that they
would be taking a short break, turning us (the audience) over to New York
for a catch-up of the latest CBS News from CBS Radio. This sustained
(unsponsored) segment of news ran from two to four minutes depending on
how long they could take a break from the coverage of the game. Sometimes
it opened up with the CBS Radio news "sounder" (usually if it were four
minutes long), sometimes it opened up "cold" (usually if it were two
minutes of news headlines aired between innings of a baseball game).
I don't ever remember Mutual or NBC Radio taking breaks during the
half-time or the period between innings for any "catch-up" of news from
their Washington or New York anchor desks back during the 1970's and
early 1980's. And now since everything is fed over individual multiple
satellite channels, I doubt that Westwood/Infinity or Disney/ESPN runs ANY
kind of brief CBS or ABC Radio newscast during half-time or breaks between
innings on live sports events they carry today, since the satellite
channels that feed the "regular" line-up of short-form newscasts/etc., are
still airing such programs during the game.
However, I would assume that if there were a major breaking news event,
the game would be interrupted, regardless of what satellite channel it
were being fed [removed] and I would guess that Mutual or NBC Radio in the
1970's and early 1980's, and ANY radio network in the good old days, would
break into their coverage of the game for informing the audience of such
major breaking [removed] [removed], Mutual did break into the Sunday afternoon
NFL game they were carrying on that Sunday, December 7th, 1941, sixty-one
years ago, yesterday. (Does anyone have the details on what NBC Red,
NBC Blue and the Columbia Network were carrying at the time they broke in
with the news?)
Mark J. Cuccia
mcuccia@[removed]
New Orleans LA
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 22:42:31 -0500
From: JimInks@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: George Reeves
I know this is off topic, but I feel compelled to correct an error. I read
Randy Story's e-mail about George Reeves' part in the movie "From Here To
Eternity" being cut. This isn't true, even though Jack Larson has repeated
this several times over the years. Director Fred Zinneman was asked about
this and he denied that Reeves' part was cut. Several years ago, someone
went through the shooting script with a fine tooth comb, and discovered that
what you see of Reeves in the final film is all that was filmed.
But I am wondering if John Hamilton, who played Perry White on the series,
did any old time radio? Anyone have any shows with him?
-Jim Amash
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 22:47:20 -0500
From: Howard Blue <khovard@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Red Channels, Aware, Elizabeth
Jennifer Post wrote: "It was hardly Collyer's responsibiliy to
thoroughly investigate every claim of Communist allegiance which came to
his attention, even if he'd been able to do so. " and "I just don't like
to see the world divided up so easily into innocents and oppressors,
without any shades of grey "
There are a number of things in Jennifer's posting with which I agree,
particularly her comment about shades of grey. The era about which
Elizabeth so eloquently has added an important new perspective was one
which often pitted essentially good people against other essentially good
people. However, some of the people involved, such as Vincent Hartnett,
seemed more motivated by financial interest than by ideological motives.
Hartnett made money by clearing people of charges that he helped
instigate in the first-place. I believe that the recently deceased
actress, Kim Hunter, was one of those people who experienced this.
This whole discussion started with a focus on Collyer which
unfortunately served to distract from the essential features of what the
blacklisters were doing. Although Collyer was a key player in the whole
process, he was no Vincent Hartnett.
The spirit that motivated Hartnett and many of the blacklisters, is
illustrated by the following quote from the great radio director, William
Robson (as told in WORDS AT WAR). I took the quote from a fascinating
interview done of Robson many years ago.
". . . Norman Corwin, [was] one of the right wing's favorite whipping
boys. 'We know Corwin was not a communist, never was a communist,' said
Hollywood actor Ward Bond, who was heavily enmeshed in the blacklisting
process. 'But he'll do until one comes along.'"
Howard Blue
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 09:20:18 -0500
From: SanctumOTR@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Re: The Blacklist and Hal Stone, Bud
Collyer, Norman Corwin, etc.
In a message dated 12/8/02 8:47:38 PM, [removed]@[removed]
writes:
Do you think one's religious, cultural or ethnic
background entered into the Communist "witch-hunt"? Remember now, I was just
a young man when all this was going on, and my "research" on the subject is
absolutely nil. But I seem to recall that quite a few Communist sympathizers
were of the Jewish faith, as was Mr. Sloane.
***Well, at least a lot of people of the Jewish faith were smeared and
accused of being Communists (though many of them had immigrated to America to
escape Russia's Communist regime.) A group of Hollywood and radio's elite
including Humphrey Bogart, Frank Sinatra, Edward G. Robinson, Danny Kaye,
Gene Kelly, Ira Gershwin, Rita Hayworth and Norman Corwin formed the
Committee for the First Amendment to fight the blacklist (with many of the
above appearing on Corwin's ABC broadcasts AMERICA FIGHTS BACK).
Anti-semitism was widespread in the USA and Washington at the time. On the
floor of Congress, Representative John Rankin denounced the group in a
blatantly anti-semitic attack, saying: "I want you to read some of the names
[of the Committee for the First Amendment]. One of [them] is June Havoc. We
found out from the MOTION PICTURE ALMANAC that her real name is June Hovick.
Another one was Danny Kaye, and we found out his real name was David Daniel
Kamirsky. [sic] Another one here is John Beal, whose real name is J.
Alexander Bliedung. Another is Cy Bartlett, whose real name is Edward
Iskowitz. There is the one who calls himself Edward Robinson. His real name
is Melvin Hesselberg. There are others to numerous to mention. They are
attacking the [House Un-American Activities] Committee for doing its duty to
protect this country and save the American people from the horrible fate the
Communists have meted out to the unfortunate CHRISTIAN people of Europe."
In other words, "Jew = Commie!"
Notice he neglected to mention anything about the horrible fates meted out by
both Nazis and Communists to the Jews.
Strange that being a liberal Jew who had fled Communist oppression made one a
target for such accusations. My friend Ken Roberts was listed in RED
CHANNELS because in 1943 he honored a request from first lady Eleanor
Roosevelt to introduce her at a fundraiser for Russian war relief . . . at a
time when England's survival (and very likely our own) depended largely upon
the Nazi military might being devided between two fronts. Yet fulfilling a
request by FDR's wife caused Ken to lose QUICK AS A FLASH and other
high-paying jobs five years later. The day before RED CHANNELS came out, one
of the biggest names in dramatic radio (and a person praised by Hal in his
postings) reportedly visited every one of the advertising agencies producing
Ken's shows. Account executives later informed Ken that this big name radio
announcer (also a friend of mine) had informed them that Ken's name was
appearing in RED CHANNELS and suggested they protect themselves by hiring him
as Robert's replacement before the publication even came out.
Hal recently asked about Jackson Beck's opinions of Collyer's politics. In
his foreword for my first RSI SUPERMAN booklet, Jackson wrote: "We had our
differences, but then friends often do, It was a tense, ontentious and
terrible time: the era of the infamous blacklist. Personally, I considered
Bud a friend and I think he considered me one. We were very far apart
politically (as many were at that time) and this bagan to intrude into the
SUPERMAN studio. It was obvious that the cast was devided into two camps.
Bud and I finally got together and agreed that the show would suffer from the
tension. We felt the positive messages presented to kids on SUPERMAN should
take precedence over our personal differences, and we went to the cast and
said as much. We all agreed that political discussion during studio time was
out of order, and tensions were absent after that."
Jackson himself was a victim of the blacklist (even though he had mad sure to
never sign anything or join antthing except the AFRA union--as I recall, he
holds membership card #2). Jack too lost QUICK AS A FLASH because of the
blacklist, though he was quickly restored to good graces when Vinton Hayworth
and others discovered that Jack was a brother Freemason. Jack insists that
Hayworth's face went totally white when he recognized Jack's lapel pin at the
AFTRA national convention and realized they had fingered a brother: "Oh,
Jack, I'm so sorry. I had no idea." No more problem. Others were not so
lucky,
And of course there was the quote from Ward Bond (one of the big names behind
the blacklist in Hollywood) when someone pointed out that Norman Corwin
wasn't a Communist: "Yes, Norman Corwin isn't a Communist, but he'll do until
a real one comes along." (or something to that effect) This was directed at
one of the most brilliant radio writer/directors of all time, the man
recruited by the US Government to write and produce WE HOLD THESE TRUTHS
(celebrating the 150th birthday of that great "Communist" document, THE BILL
OF RIGHTS), and again selected by our government to celebrate the end of WWII
with ON A NOTE OF TRIUMPH and FOURTEEN AUGUST.
Being much younger and far, far handsomer than Hal Stone, I lack any first
hand experiences from the Golden Age of Radio, but I have many friends who
did suffer greatly because of the blacklist. None of them were Communists,
though most were Roosevelt "New Deal" Democrats. And many liberal Democrats
had careers destroyed simply because they were liberals (or had done favors
for the Roosevelt White House. Fighting Communism is one thing; destroying
those of another political party when you're on top is (and dismantling the
Bill of Rights to do it) is quite another thing. And as outgoing Minnesota
governor Jesse Ventura has pointed out, an effectively two-party system gives
you only one more choice than the Russians had under Communism.
(And as Will Rogers pointed out: "America has the best politicans that money
can buy,")
Being descended from the Towne family of Salem, Massachusetts (two of whose
members were hanged in those infamous times, with Rebecca Towne Nurse
featured prominently in Arthur Miller's THE CRUCIBLE), I'm a bit sensitive
toward witchhunts. I also think it's important that we don't dismantle the
very ideals that make our country the great nation it is. And I strongly
agree with Ben Franklin that those who would exchange liberty for momentary
security deserve neither,
Excuse me, I think I'll go listen to Norman Corwin's WE HOLD THESE TRUTHS
again.
--Anthony Tollin
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 09:17:32 -0500
From: "timl2002" <timl2002@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Note of Appreciation
Just a note to let everyone on the list know that I have appreciated
the generally tolerant/polite tone of the posts in the HUAC-Red Channels
thread even as there have been completely different viewpoints on the
subject. It makes me appreciate the people on the list as a great bunch of
nice folks that I would love to meet one day. Tom Brokaw wrote a book about
World War II era Americans as being "The Greatest Generation." I am so
grateful to that generation because They believed in the greatness of the
USA as a nation and defended her honor in any way they could. Unfortunately
it also led to certain abuses and [removed](The blacklist, etc) that
should have never been allowed to [removed] I have learned a great deal from
all the input from folks on the subject. Hope to see some of you at a
convention one day.
Tim Lones
Canton, Ohio
--------------------------------
End of [removed] Digest V2002 Issue #477
*********************************************
Copyright [removed] Communications, York, PA; All Rights Reserved,
including republication in any form.
If you enjoy this list, please consider financially supporting it:
[removed]
For Help: [removed]@[removed]
To Unsubscribe: [removed]@[removed]
To Subscribe: [removed]@[removed]
or see [removed]
For Help with the Archive Server, send the command ARCHIVE HELP
in the SUBJECT of a message to [removed]@[removed]
To contact the listmaster, mail to listmaster@[removed]
To Send Mail to the list, simply send to [removed]@[removed]