Subject: [removed] Digest V2003 #374
From: <[removed]@[removed]>
Date: 10/16/2003 12:01 PM
To: <[removed]@[removed];

------------------------------


                            The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                              Volume 2003 : Issue 374
                         A Part of the [removed]!
                                 ISSN: 1533-9289


                                 Today's Topics:

  Re: Zeroes                            [ "Brian L Bedsworth" <az2pa@[removed]; ]
  Empire Builder                        [ <welsa@[removed]; ]
  A serendipitous moment                [ <otrbuff@[removed]; ]
  Re: Here's Morgan                     [ "Brian L Bedsworth" <az2pa@[removed]; ]
  Fred Foy Radio Appearance             [ Sean Dougherty <seandd@[removed] ]
  shortwave radio reception             [ "ellsworth o johnson" <eojohnsonww2 ]
  One Man's Family                      [ Richard Carpenter <newsduck@[removed] ]
  Re: Ciro's                            [ Jim Widner <widnerj@[removed]; ]
  Go get some Pop, at the Groshery sto  [ Wich2@[removed] ]
  Sack it to me                         [ "Irene Heinstein" <IreneTH@[removed] ]
  Space Binoculars                      [ "A. Joseph Ross" <lawyer@attorneyro ]
  Thanksgiving twice in 1939?           [ "Matthew Bullis" <matthewbullis@run ]
  Powered AM antenna                    [ "A. Joseph Ross" <lawyer@attorneyro ]
  Regional and ethnic accents on OTR    [ "MICHAEL BIEL" <mbiel@[removed]; ]
  Henry Morgan-I've Got a Secret        [ "timl2002" <timl2002@[removed]; ]
  Mini-disc                             [ "Bob & Carol Taylor" <qth4@comcast. ]
  MP3 Players?                          [ "Bob & Carol Taylor" <qth4@comcast. ]
  Green Hornet Episodes characters      [ Herb Harrison <herbop@[removed] ]
  Ciro's Restaurant in Los Angeles      [ Herb Harrison <herbop@[removed] ]
  Today in radio history                [ Joe Mackey <joemackey108@[removed] ]
  comments re Digest 372                [ Herb Harrison <herbop@[removed] ]
  RE: Re: "Farkin'"                     [ "Garry Lewis" <glewis@[removed] ]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 19:47:16 -0400
From: "Brian L Bedsworth" <az2pa@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Re: Zeroes

 "Jennifer Pope" <ifearonlyhim@[removed]; tried to Stump The Band with the
following:

    I keep hearing about this Los Angeles restaurant while listening to
Jack Benny, Burns and Allen, etc.  It seems to be rather famous (or
infamous), but I can't find a website that mentions the place, no matter how
I spell the name (Zero's, 00s, etc.) - is/was it real?  Can anyone point me
to further information?

The place was named "Ciro's" and was, as you speculated, both famous and
infamous in its day. Today, it's considered by some to be even more outre
than ever, as the following history of the site claims:

[removed]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 19:47:29 -0400
From: <welsa@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Empire Builder

Has anyone ever heard of a radio show called "Empire Builder"?  If so, I'd
like some info on it--and in particular are there any copies and/or scripts
available.

Thanks.

Ted

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 21:26:00 -0400
From: <otrbuff@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  A serendipitous moment

While buying today (something I loathe but occasionally have to do) I
visited a major shopping center in our town where another of those quite
upscale national emporiums opened an outlet recently.  I hadn't seen it but
had heard it was characterized by polished floors, spacious aisles of
grandeur where you can see from one end of its vast expanse to its far side
without displays and shelves blocking your view, fashionable clothing and
all of it enhanced by a grand piano in the center of the main floor with
someone constantly tickling the ivories.  It was all like I had been told.
As I stood in awe, the tune being played on that fabulous grand was none
other than "Thanks for the Memories."  It reverberated throughout that huge
venue like they had designed a facility for that sole purpose.  I had to get
close enough to see who was playing that marvelous instrument.  Would you
believe it was a little old white-haired lady who looked as if she could be
in her 80s?  I smiled, knowing she knew the history of that tune if anybody
did.  It was one of those pleasant reveries one can scarcely anticipate.
While I liked some other comics better than Bob Hope, I got a thrill that
"our music" is still in vogue in such fashionable places!

Jim Cox

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 21:27:00 -0400
From: "Brian L Bedsworth" <az2pa@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Re: Here's Morgan

The mighty Dixonhayes@[removed] reminded this list of the following:

On the other hand, he did continue to make TV appearances into the '70s, on
shows like the Wally Bruner/Larry Blyden version of "What's My Line?" and the
70s version of "Match Game."

If Morgan hadn't benn such a confirmed New Yorker, his game show appearances
might well have been more numerous in his latter years. As it was, he was as
frequent a panelist as possible on the occasional Goodson/Todman show
originating in Manhattan (rather than [removed]) into the 1980s; these would
include the abbreviated Ed Sullivan Theatre run of "I've Got A Secret" and
the more successful early-80s revival of "To Tell The Truth".

He also frequently appeared on talk shows like
"The Tomorrow Show" and I think even "Late Night With David Letterman."

His final Letterman appearance in 1982 (8 Feb 1982, for nitpickers) seems to
have been his last national TV or radio gig, though he was active as a
performer (or, I suppose, more accurately, a "personality") in and around New
York for several years thereafter.

Still, it's a shame Morgan never got his full due.  I always thought he was
radio's most underrated comedian ever.

Two of America's most celebrated comedians tried to out-Morgan Morgan on the
radio and were disasters (Groucho on "Blue Ribbon Town", and Milton Berle in
his 1947-48 incarnation) trying to recreate Morgan's "formula" -- because it
=wasn't= a formula; it was Henry being Henry. It's a testament to the esteem
in which Morgan was held among his peers that the best looked to him for
inspiration (even if they couldn't pull it off).

Another testament came from Fred Allen. For what he knew would likely be his
last ever program as a radio headliner in 1949, he chose as guests the two
comedians with whom he wanted to be remembered: his great faux-rival and
friend of nearly three decades' standing, Jack [removed]

...and one Henry Morgan. (And his moose head.)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 21:41:55 -0400
From: Sean Dougherty <seandd@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Fred Foy Radio Appearance

Fred Foy, soon to be a guest at the 28th Friends of Old Time Radio
Convention in Newark, [removed], will be heard on WTAG Worcester, Mass., AM-580
this Friday, October 17, at 8:15 [removed] being interviewed by local talk show
host Hank Stolz.

You should be able to tune in the program here:
[removed].

So listen up everyone in Central Mass., and computer users around the world.

And then come meet him live in Newark, October 23-26, 2003, at Friends of
Old Time Radio!

Sean Dougherty
SeanDD@[removed]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 22:32:48 -0400
From: "ellsworth o johnson" <eojohnsonww2@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  shortwave radio reception

Folks

If you think just because the numbers are on the dial of a radio you are
going to receive something from that frequency or maybe even the name of the
country or radio call letters are there-- ask for a demonstration. Of course
nowadays this is almost impossible because there are no old fashioned radio
stores left. However there is Radio Shack where you can ask for a
demonstration. You will see for yourself that the radio will pull in
virtually nothing in the way of  shortwave reception--because it requires a
good outdoor receiving antenna and not just that little pull-up wave rod.

Back in the 30s my family owned and operated a radio store in Spokane, Wa. I
recall customers frequently asking if we had a radio that would pull in
Seattle, Wa so they could listen to a ball game-- they would buy said radio.
I had to say no we did not. Seattle was less than 300 miles away but it  was
impossible to receive it from  Spokane--- with one exception--sometimes at
night it could happen if atmospheric condition were just right. By the same
token there were what were called " clear channels " from radio stations in
Salt Lake City, Utah.  KSL  ,  and Los Angeles, Calif. KFI  with lots of
radio power in watts and you could receive them as soon as  the sun went
down. I also recall receiving KDKA Pittsburg with the same circumstances.

Ellsworth

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 22:45:19 -0400
From: Richard Carpenter <newsduck@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  One Man's Family

     Yesterday and today I listened to two broadcasts
of "One Man's Family," one from 1941 and one from
1950, and was struck by the difference in tone of the
shows. The earlier one consisted of a warm discussion
by an obviously wonderful family. The later, however,
seemed a typical sitcom. I was reminded of the
difference between the early Amos & Andy shows and the
later ones. I wonder: Was the decision to jazz up "One
Man's Family" made to save a show that may have been
slipping in the ratings?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 23:21:11 -0400
From: Jim Widner <widnerj@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Re: Ciro's

At 07:49 PM 10/15/2003 -0400, you wrote:

I can't find a website that mentions the place, no matter how
I spell the name (Zero's, 00s, etc.) - is/was it real?  Can anyone point me
to further information?

If no one else points to it, check this web location, Jennifer:

[removed]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 23:21:42 -0400
From: Wich2@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Go get some Pop, at the Groshery store
 acrosst the [removed]
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain

From: "B. J. Watkins" kinseyfan@[removed]
(Any comments from Craig, who grew up just down the road a piece?) <

(Howabout the subject heading - which contains no misspellings!)
Great subject - and not really off topic. The NW Ohio-ism that gets noticed
the most by my NY friends is the partial sentence like: "The floor needs
sweeped" (not "to be sweeped", nor "needs sweeping").
The regionalism I've fought ever since studying with Stella Adler, is a
marked tendency for sentences to flow downhill, energy-wise. Can sound damned
enervated, in an actor. (Hope none of you notice it in my FOTR work next
[removed]).
And when I'm home in Defiance, I'm still struck by how almost shrill the
local commercials sound; "vairy short vowls".
Best,
Craig Wichman

  *** This message was altered by the server, and may not appear ***
  ***                  as the sender intended.                   ***

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 00:47:00 -0400
From: "Irene Heinstein" <IreneTH@[removed];
To: "OTR" <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Sack it to me

[removed] Watkins wrote in reply to my comments about paper bags being called
'sacks':

As for "brown paper bags" They were sacks when I lived in Ohio and are
still sacks here in California. Is that really different elsewhere?

I went to Ohio from the greater NYC area where we definitely did not leave
the market with our stuff in sacks, but in bags.     I've lived in
California since 1958.    Where in California do you live?    In Northern
California, at least in the Bay Area,  we also leave the market with our
stuff in bags, [paper or plastic]  not sacks.     Must be So Cal.  :))
Truthfully, though I've never heard bags called sacks in Northern CA.

As for wanting 'off' I actually say that myself now, but at the time it
sounded funny to me.

-Irene

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 01:21:56 -0400
From: "A. Joseph Ross" <lawyer@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Space Binoculars

Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 10:28:03 -0400
From: "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@[removed];

I don't believe that he's dreaming, yet I don't believe it was a Captain
Midnight TV premium.  The closest match I can make of this is a Space
Patrol set of Space Binoculars, which performed this function.  

I remember these binoculars.  I never had one, but I remember some other kid had one.  It 
was really badly built and came apart easily.  I seem to remember an episode of Space 
Patrol where Cadet Happy sat at the controls of Terra 5, with the binoculars strapped on his 
face.

-- A. Joseph Ross, [removed] [removed] 15 Court Square, Suite 210 lawyer@[removed] Boston, MA 02108-2503 [removed] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 01:22:47 -0400 From: "Matthew Bullis" <matthewbullis@[removed]; To: <[removed]@[removed]; Subject: Thanksgiving twice in 1939? Hello, two Jack Benny programs mentioned the fact that they don't know when Thanksgiving is, because it was twice, or as Mary's poem says, "a double feature," and as Rochester says in the preceeding program "who knew" when Thanksgiving is? Was there some question as to when Thanksgiving should be celebrated in 1939? Thanks a lot. Matthew ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 01:30:04 -0400 From: "A. Joseph Ross" <lawyer@[removed]; To: [removed]@[removed] Subject: Powered AM antenna
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 14:14:57 -0400
From: <exportech@[removed];

Try Radio Shack, Best Buy, or Circuit City. Frank Kelly

Also try Grove Enterprises -- [removed]

--
A. Joseph Ross, [removed]                           [removed]
 15 Court Square, Suite 210                 lawyer@[removed]
Boston, MA 02108-2503           	         [removed]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:40:19 -0400
From: "MICHAEL BIEL" <mbiel@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Regional and ethnic accents on OTR

In discussing regional accents, Mark Kinsler mentioned:

The majority of my radio listening is programs like "When
Radio Was," whose programs don't seem to go back earlier
than about 1944 and are mostly from the '50's. (I suppose this is
because of the sound quality and social content of earlier shows.)

An ironic statement because most of the time when I've come across "When
Radio Was" I've felt the sound quality was rather dreary and sometimes
dreadful.  But then again, if they can make newer recordings sound that
bad, imagine what they would do with earlier programs from the thirties.
Since series like these are meant as introductions to the neophytes,
naturally they would tend to play newer programs which were more slickly
produced as the industry gained experience, and more modern sounding
because they are closer to our times.  But now that you have gotten your
fill of this "sampler" series, you now need to graduate to more adventurous
programing. :-)

Mark continues:  "Ms McLeod commented that the 'correct English' movement
didn't hit radio until the '40's."  This might be an oversimplification of
what she said, and actually is misleading because she and I have discussed
in the past the "Good Diction On The Radio" movement in the 1920s supported
by the American Academy's Gold Medal for announcers.  This organization
realized very early in the era of nationwide network broadcasting that
radio could be used as a tool to get rid of "disagreeable local accents" by
encouraging everyone to speak alike.  Unfortunately the manner of speaking
they were supporting sounded very phony, snooty, and pseudo-British.  What
she actually said was "Speech did become more homogenized by the forties,
though -- probably as a side effect of the overall Hollywoodization of the
medium, and of the ill-conceived class-driven belief that there's only one
"proper" way to
speak English."  Note that she said "BY the forties" not "UNTIL the '40's."
Very important distinction.

This discussion in general has mixed up REGIONAL accents with ETHNIC
accents, and has not taken a clear distinction between announcers and
fictional characters.  The homogenization she mentions is mainly concerned
with announcers, not characters.  Her point was that you would have been
more likely to hear a regional accents spoken by announcers before the
1940s.  Accents in fictional characters continued after that date.  I agree
that it is strange that there doesn't seem to be the expected accents in
westerns, but there were many in both Jack Benny and Fred Allen's programs.
But again, many were ethnic accents, like Mrs. Nusbaum and Mr. Kitzel.
However Senator Claghorn didn't have to TELL you he was from the South!
Just yesterday I heard a British comedian on the new David Frost PBS
program "Strategic Comedy Initiative" say that Americans sometimes comment
on his accent.  Actually, he said, I don't have an accent.  This is what it
sounds like when the words are pronounced correctly.  (That's a JOKE, son!)

Michael Biel  mbiel@[removed]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:40:34 -0400
From: "timl2002" <timl2002@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Henry Morgan-I've Got a Secret

To clarify about Henry Morgan And I've Got  Secret:
There were 3 separate "Secret" series in which Morgan appeared:
The original I've Got a Secret (CBS) from 1952-September [removed] by
Garry Moore and Steve Allen

Appeared (not all the time) on a Syndicated I've Got a Secret (Host Steve
Allen) 1972-73

Four week summer replacement version Hosted by Bill Cullen (1976-CBS)
[removed] did not appear for 24 straight years on I've Got a [removed] too
think he is very underrated

Tim Lones

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:41:05 -0400
From: "Bob & Carol Taylor" <qth4@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Mini-disc

With all the conversation in the past about the life of the recordable c d,
I wonder if any of you have looked in to the mini-disc?  Being blind and no
longer using cassettes for many reasons I have found that the mini-disc can
hold up to 5 hours in l4.  L2 with an 80 minute disc gives you 160 minutes.
L4 is not the best choice for music but it still wins out over the cassette.

Especially for audio buffs is the fact that the disc's are extremely easy to
and erase.

I do a country radio show here in Pittsburgh on the radio reading service
for the blind and do all my editing on the mini-disc and then dump the show
on a cd for the folks at the station to put in to the computer.

I don't think the issue of lasting life time is as critical on the mini-disc
since they use a metal disc.  The disc is enclosed in a plastic shell with a
door that allows access to the laser.

The disc isn't exposed so you can't touch it.

If anyone has any further idea's on this format it would be interesting to
read.

Bob Taylor

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:41:20 -0400
From: "Bob & Carol Taylor" <qth4@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  MP3 Players?

Does anyone know of any mp3 players that would be a good choice for anyone
with out sight?  I have seen one through a audio book sight that claims it
works well with the screen reading program Jaws but I don't want to sign up
for that program and get the player because I'm not interested in audio
books.  I can't keep up with what I have here from NLS.

Bob Taylor

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:41:54 -0400
From: Herb Harrison <herbop@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Green Hornet Episodes characters

David Van Nostrand wrote:

Some of the actors have very distictive voices and hearing
them be a criminal in one episode and being a totally
different character in the next episode, sometimes it is
hard to "get in to the story" when this happens.

I've noticed the same thing in "Gunsmoke" episodes, and it sometimes
interferes with my enjoyment of the story - at least for a while.

Herb Harrison

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:41:36 -0400
From: Herb Harrison <herbop@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Ciro's Restaurant in Los Angeles

Jennifer Pope asked about a Los Angeles restaurant mentioned on many OTR
programs.
She's probably talking about Ciro's, "the hottest nightclub on the
planet"... according to this website:
[removed]
Hope this helps,

Herb Harrison

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:42:05 -0400
From: Joe Mackey <joemackey108@[removed];
To: otrd <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Today in radio history

 From Those Were The Days --

1939 - Radio listeners welcomed The Right to Happiness on the NBC Blue
network. The 15-minute drama turned out to be one of the longest-running
  shows of its kind. It moved over to CBS in 1941, then back to NBC in
1942. Fourteen years later Right to Happiness returned to CBS where it
stayed until its last days in 1960. The show had a theme song, Song of
the Soul, and what seemed like a cast of thousands. It just took a lot
of different actors to play the continuing roles over a 21-year period.

1945 - Barry Fitzgerald starred as Judge Barnard Fitz in His Honor, the
Barber, which debuted on NBC.

Joe

--
Visit my homepage:  [removed]~[removed]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:42:48 -0400
From: Herb Harrison <herbop@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  comments re Digest 372

Barbara asks:

Just curious, how many of you grew up saying "futher" instead of "further"?
I wonder if anyone ever said that in a radio drama?

I don't remember that word, but when I was a kid my elderly neighbor, who
had been born a couple of "hollows" over, always pronounced the word "food"
as "fud". When, as an insolent teenager, I asked him about it, he said, "I
say it like that because that's what it is. Now, do you want my wife to
cook us some fud, or do you want to go hungry?"
I never challenged his pronunciation again.
I wonder if anyone still pronounces the word that way?
(I'm going to assume that it died out under the influence of "standard
pronunciation" in the media in succeeding generations.)
Note: I responded off-list to Al's comments about "I could care less".

Herb Harrison

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:52:23 -0400
From: "Garry Lewis" <glewis@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  RE: Re: "Farkin'"

To "spark" is a common bit of rural
dialect referring to the practice of pitching woo.

Pitching woo? I thought that was something from the Japanese baseball
league.

Then again, there's always-
[removed]

--------------------------------
End of [removed] Digest V2003 Issue #374
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