------------------------------
The Old-Time Radio Digest!
Volume 2003 : Issue 440
A Part of the [removed]!
ISSN: 1533-9289
Today's Topics:
Ellen Drew [ "RBB" <oldradio@[removed]; ]
Easter Sunday [ otrdude@[removed] ]
"Famous Christmas "S"'s, for 0 Dolla [ Wich2@[removed] ]
OTR Epithets [ "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@ ]
BBC archives (again) [ "Phil Watson" <philwats@[removed] ]
12-10 births/deaths [ Ron Sayles <bogusotr@[removed]; ]
swearing in OTR? [ "[removed]" <[removed]@[removed] ]
Sedate detectives [ Kenneth Clarke <kclarke5@[removed]; ]
Irish Mail [ "David H. Buswell" <dbuswell@rivnet ]
Radio Happenings sample [ "B. J. Watkins" <kinseyfan@hotmail. ]
BBC Archive [ "david rogers" <david_rogers@hotmai ]
Flocking is NOT painting [ "MICHAEL BIEL" <mbiel@[removed]; ]
Gunsmoke [ "Katja and Tom" <kattom@[removed] ]
Re: Foul Language [ BryanH362@[removed] ]
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 12:45:19 -0500
From: "RBB" <oldradio@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Ellen Drew
Ellen Drew has died at age 89 in Palm Desert, CA. She was discovered
serving hot fudge sundaes in a Hollywood Boulevard ice cream parlour. Her
film credits include "Buck Benny Rides Again" as a straight woman to Jack
Benny in the comedy film.
She also appeared on early, dramatic television shows.
Was she also on the Jack Benny radio shows, does any one know? Thanks.
Russ Butler oldradio@[removed]
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 12:45:47 -0500
From: otrdude@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Easter Sunday
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I found an eccliastical calendar calculator at
[removed]~[removed]
It says:
Ash Wednesday is 26 February, 1941.
Laetare Sunday is 23 March, 1941.
Palm/Passion Sunday is 6 April, 1941.
Good Friday is 11 April, 1941.
(Western) Easter Sunday is 13 April, 1941.
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 13:28:37 -0500
From: Wich2@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: "Famous Christmas "S"'s, for 0 Dollars!"
Folks-
I'm late in reacting here; hustling to prep THE BLUE CARBUNCLE for WBAI
airing just after Christmas, as well as A CHRISTMAS CAROL for WYRS this
Friday night(!).
My intent is not to ignite a flame(-ing yule log) here, but I have to respond
to a recent unfair jab at fellow OTR lover Carl Amari. I'm not naive, & grasp
why some folks in this group may not want to consider him a "Santa"; but,
having played Dickens' "squeezing, grasping, clutching, covetous old sinner"
several times, I'll reference a quote from a presidential campaign not too
long [removed]
"I've known Ebenezer Scrooge; I've worked with Ebenezer Scrooge; and Sir,
Carl Amari is no Ebenezer Scrooge!"
Blessed Holidays to you & yours,
Craig Wichman
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 15:58:51 -0500
From: "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: OTR Epithets
Speaking of exclamations, Joe Salerno notes, anent "Leaping lizards!"
We all know who said that one - Orphan Annie!
On the Captain Midnight program, the Secret Squadron leader's phrase was
"Great Scott!"
Chuck Ramsay's was "Looping loops!" This was an aviation oriented
phrase.
Joyce Ryan's was, "Gee-manee!" [This was once quoted by a prominent
writer as "Gemini!" It was too drawn out for that.]
Ichabod Mudd's was "Blazing beacons!" Chuck occasionally used that one,
too. Another of Mudd's was "Leapin' sawfish!" Well, he was a good
fisherman.
Stephen A. Kallis, Jr.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 16:00:11 -0500
From: "Phil Watson" <philwats@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: BBC archives (again)
"MICHAEL BIEL" <mbiel@[removed]; recently wrote
I have often said in print that there is no archive in the world which has
embarrassed itself more than the BBC when it is discovered what they have
not kept. ......
In the early days of videorecordings the tape reels were very expensive and
cost more than the programmes they contained, and of course the artists'
contracts did not include right to rebroadcast clauses, so it was expedient
to reuse the tape reels.
On Mon, 14 May 2001 , I wrote for the digest
Further to recent posts of mine about the BBC clearing their archives, only
this morning there was a feature on BBC's breakfast TV show.
The BBC is launching a nationwide hunt to unearth lost programme gems such
as episodes of Dr. Who or Steptoe and Son which have disappeared from
television archives.
In an interview the BBC Archive Manager, Paul Bland (phonetic) said "It was
a different culture in those days, it was thirty years ago, and people saw
pop culture and comedy in a different light to that we see today. I am told
that it wouldn't happen today. They were massive tapes they were recorded
on, there was a lot of pressure on funding for the BBC, they found it very
difficult to keep them and they didn't value them. They just re-recorded
over them. The whole ethos was that actors would come in out of the West End
(theatres), they would work during the afternoon, and we used tape in those
days just to record it then to shift it to an evening transmission, and then
next week we would record over the top again. That's why there are so many
of the Dr. Who and other series missing. I think also it was how people
valued it, and I think that's what's really changed. Hancock, and other most
wonderful stuff, they wiped. I think it is worth a lot finding them, in
terms of cultural heritage, it is worth a lot in the commercial world as
well. I think we're more motivated by trying to fill these gaps. The missing
shows could be in people's attics, and people were able to take them home,
didn't return them, people weren't chased up for them. When people have
passed on their families have come forward and said "Are these of any value"
and we found a lot of things overseas, from when the BBC sold things
overseas, Australia had a lot of Dr. Who, and the Merchant Navy had a lot of
things to show at sea" (edited from a discussion)
Of course the same applies to radio. Many acetates were in the hands of
producers, scriptwriters etc. However acetates and transcription discs were
never made in the same quantities as in America, where I understand they
were made in the hundreds. Here in the UK up to the 60s there was one
broadcaster, and when it was broadcast it may have been kept for repeat, or
it might not. I think it's tragic to think that a reel of tape was thought
too expensive to store for the future and it was more expedient to re-use
it."
American film stars Ben Lyon & Bebe Daniels had a wonderful BBC comedy
series "Life With The Lyons" That ran from 1950 to 1961, over 250 episodes.
The BBC hold around 4 episodes. In the 1980's Ben Lyon's own tapes of the
series were given to the BBC but after listening to a few they rejected them
for future broadcast and were about to destroy them. An OTR club in the UK
heard of it and persuaded the BBC to donate them, where they have been
transferred to cassette for rent to members.
I remember hearing with horror that used Transcription Service LPs returned
after foreign broadcasts were routinely smashed on Saturday overtime, with
no attempt being made to check if the original master tapes had been
retained in the archives. In many cases the only versions of some shows that
are available are TS versions "liberated" by staff in the 1960s/70s instead
of being smashed and returned to the BBC in the last few years.
The most recent Treasure Hunt has had several lost series or shows returned
by home tapers, including a Kenneth Williams comedy series, and these have
been broadcast on the digital BBC7 station with extracts on Radio 4.
Phil
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 16:00:19 -0500
From: Ron Sayles <bogusotr@[removed];
To: Olde Tyme Radio List <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: 12-10 births/deaths
December 10th births
12-10-1889 - Ray Collins - Sacramento, CA - d. 7-11-1965
actor: Doc Will Hackett, "County Seat"; member of The Mercury Theatre
12-10-1903 - Una Merkel - Covington, KY - d. 1-2-1986
actress: Adeline Fairchild "Great Gildersleeve"; "Johnny Presents"; "Texaxo
Star Theatre"
12-10-1911 - Chet Huntley - Cardwell, CO - d. 3-20-1974
newscaster, producer: "They Burned the Books"
12-10-1913 - Morton Gould - Richmond Hill, NY - d. 2-21-1996
conductor: "Music for Today"; "Original Amateur Hour"; "Cresta Blanca Carnival"
12-10-1914 - Dorothy Lamour - New Orleans, LA - d. 9-21-1996
singer, actress: "Chase & Sanborn Hour"; "Front and Center"; "Sealtest
Variety Show"
12-10-1914 - Jean Dickenson - Montreal, Canada
singer: (Nightingale of the Airwaves) "American Album of Familiar Music";
"Hollywood Hotel"
12-10-1920 - Dennis Morgan - Prentice, WI - d. 9-7-1994
actor, singer: "Lux Radio Theatre"; "[removed] Steel Hour"; "Screen Guild Theatre"
12-10-1960 - Kenneth Branagh - Belfast, North Ireland
actor: Renaissance Theatre Company in association with BBC Radio Drama
December 10th deaths
05-05-1899 - Freeman F. Gosden - Richmond, VA - d. 12-10-1982
comedian: "Sam 'n" Henry"; Amos Jones "Amos 'n" Andy"
05-08-1895 - Bishop Fulton J. Sheen - El Paso, IL - d. 12-10-1979
preacher: "Catholic Hour"
08-02-1892 - John Kieran - The Bronx, NY, New - d. 12-10-1980
panelist: "Information Please"
08-02-1912 - Ann Dvorak - NYC - d. 12-10-1979 - d. 12-10-1979
actress: "Movietone Radio Theatre"
08-26-1907 - Jack Berch - Sigel, IL - d. 12-10-1992
singer: "Kitchen Pirate"; "Sweetheart Serenade"; "Jack Berch Show"
12-11-1922 - Marie Windsor - Marysvale, UT - d. 12-10-2000
actress: Irma Peterson "My Friend Irma"
Ron Sayles
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 16:01:16 -0500
From: "[removed]" <[removed]@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: swearing in OTR?
In #439, Mike Mackey wrote:
The lack of foul language is one of the characteristics of
OTR that I believe has helped to keep it [removed];SNIP>...
Thankfully we do have otr to not only educate us and enrich
us, but to entertain us as well.
By quoting his message, it is not my attempt to single out Mike Mackey, or to
pick on him personally. I selected his as typical of a class of messages
that have been posted recently, where OTR is praised because of it's lack of
'bad' language. I've been thinking quite a bit about this subject lately.
First, let me say that I don't have any problem with appropriate swearing.
In some situations it can be gratuitous, or even [removed] in other cases, NOT
swearing sounds silly. Take, for example, the typical 'old-style' war movie
(you know the type, where the sweet-hearted blonde white kid always gets
killed to symbolize the horror and senselessness of war), where all the
soldier use these absolutely tortured and forced euphemisms in the place of
swearing. I've never been in a war personally, but a trench full of soldiers
locked in hand-to-hand combat spouting lines like "curse you" and "you dirty
rats" just sounds (and looks) a little silly. Or consider the person who
types something like "bulls***", as if those three asterisks somehow make it
better. If you choose not to swear, that's fine and I respect that. If you
choose to swear, that's fine and I respect that too. But to do something
silly like replacing a few letters with asterisks deserves no respect.
Everyone knows what you're pretending not to type, you don't gain any
acceptability or politeness by not actually typing the entire word. Take a
stand and pick one side or the other, but don't try to do both by swearing
with *'s.
Anyway, that being said, I'm not sure I accept the argument that OTR is
morally superior because it lacks 'bad' words. Since when did whether or not
a program uses a bad word be the sole criteria on which a show's quality,
worth, or morality is judged. It's seem a pretty poor standard to me.
There's some shows in OTR that are horribly racist, xenophobic, and
misogynistic (even if not intentionally). In many cases, there was one
standard of what your color should be, what religion you are, what country
you're from, how your family is made up, and what your politics should be.
If you didn't conform to that particular standard you are at best ignored, at
worst ridiculed, blamed for all of the country's evils and condemned to
eternal damnation. Yet, for some reason I'm supposed to accept these
particular shows as morally superior because they don't have an occasional
damn or hell? I don't buy it.
I love OTR very much, but I don't overlook it's faults and I don't reject
everything modern because it's different than OTR.
[removed] are exhausting.
-chris holm
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 16:01:26 -0500
From: Kenneth Clarke <kclarke5@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Sedate detectives
It really depends on what you mean by 'sedate'.
IMHO, I'd list Nero Wolfe, Mr. Moto, Ellery Queen,
Mr. Keen, and Charlie Chan. In some ways, Hercule
Poirot and Dan Holiday ("Box 13") could be considered
sedate.
There are also some crime detecting couples
who some might consider for this category. In particular,
"Mr. and Mrs. North" as well as Nick and Nora Charles
("The Thin Man").
Are you referring to the amount of activity each
one of them put into their individual cases? Are you
referring to the more cerebral detectives rather than the
more hands on type? Each one of these detectives and
detective couples did a certain amount of sleuthing, but
Nero Wolfe delegated most of the leg work to his sidekick
Archie Goodwin. (If that isn't sedate, I'd like to know what
is.)
Kenneth Clarke
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 16:24:18 -0500
From: "David H. Buswell" <dbuswell@[removed];
To: "OTR" <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Irish Mail
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Following my recent reading about the word "velocipede" and begging
Charlie's indulgence, I have an allied question that is driving me nuts but
somehow I think can be answered by OTR Digest habituC)s. When I was boy in
the 1930s my parents gave me for Christmas what was called an "Irish Mail."
It was in the form of a child's fire engine and was moved by pulling a
handle back and forth in much the same manner as those rail workers' cars.
Here's my question: there is another, more formal, name for this mobile toy
([removed], much like "velocipede," ) but, for the life of me, I can't remember
it. Can anyone help?
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 17:56:43 -0500
From: "B. J. Watkins" <kinseyfan@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Radio Happenings sample
For those of you in the Los Angeles area, here are two items of interest:
1. Saul Levine, General Manager/owner of KSUR 1240 AM, has reached an
exclusive relationship with the syndicator that produced the radio dramas
for KNX. In addition to the "Twilight Zone" shows, the station will also air
Stan Freberg's "Radio That Was" and a nightly original drama from the
Imagination Radio Theatre. Beginning Monday, the three-hour drama block will
air from 8 [removed] to 11 [removed]
2. On December 10 Art Laboe will host an Evening @ the Barn at the
Hollywood Heritage Museum in the Lasky-Demille Barn located across from the
Hollywood Bowl. You are invited to this event that benefits Hollywood
Heritage Inc. There is an $8 fee for non-members. Art Laboe's panel of
Friends will include the following radio broadcasting pioneers and
entertainers: Don Barrett (Los Angeles Radio People), Frank Bresee (The
Golden Days of Radio), Cleve Duncan (The Penguins), Johnny Hayes (formerly
with KRLA and KRTH), Val Poliuto (The Jaguars), Trini Lopez (recording
artist/actor) and Charlie Tuna (KBIG), Johnny Grant (Honorary Mayor of
Hollywood), Casey Kasem (American Top 20) and many others. Art Laboe and His
Friends will take questions from the audience and discuss their amazing
journey through LA radio, concerts, rock & roll, records and their ties to
tv and movies. An autograph session will follow the discussion.
If you'd like to receive my "Radio Happenings" newsletter by email, just ask
to be put on the mailing list.
Barbara
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 18:11:34 -0500
From: "david rogers" <david_rogers@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: BBC Archive
It was very interesting to hear Michael Biel's comments on the BBC archive.
Maybe he or anybody else "in the know" could answer a question that has been
bugging me for a while - well actually there are a couple of questions:
1 - Why does there seem to be a reluctance to release "short run" releases
of limited interest shows? Either TV or radio? In this digital age, surely
it would not be that difficult. For example, I recently got my hands on a
VCD copy of an old BBC science fiction show called "The Nowhere Man." I
went to the net and found that there is a quite a cult following for the
show as well as petitions for its release on DVD. However, the BBC seems
reluctant to release it. Why? Just to anticipate an arguement. The idea
that it takes as much time to prepare a show for a duplication of 100 copies
and 10, 000 copies does not seem acceptable, when there is such a large
archive and so much of it is untouched. If people want stuff and are
willing to pay for it and it is lying there earning no money while it sits
on the [removed] you see what I mean?
2 - This brings me to a second point about many universities etc that hold
archive material and there is limited access to stuff. Radio (and TV) is
broadcast material. I can understand limited access so that stuff does not
get damaged, however, to protect people from hearing it and (God forbid)
copying it, seems to deny what such material is - broadcast material. They
were not created as things that were to be untouched, they are things which
are to be seen and/or heard.
I feel that one of the greatest things that the BBC has done recently is
radio 7 and the rebroadcasting of some of its old shows - particularly
through the Internet. I don't know much about these things but it seems
that setting up an Internet radio is not tough - I know people that do it
from there house. Is it too much to ask that some universities or other
such institutes rebroadcast items that they hpld through Internet radio. I
know that many universities already have an Internet college radio. If they
can play pop music, why not other things. I know that the interest will be
smaller, maybe a few fans and scholars - but that is what such institutes
cater to.
I can already feel Michael Biel reaching for his reply button and saying
"While it may seem common sense, the sad reality is [removed]"
Love as always, David Rogers
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 19:04:39 -0500
From: "MICHAEL BIEL" <mbiel@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Flocking is NOT painting
Chris is very confused with Ted's reference to flocking a Christmas tree
because painting and flocking are two entirely different things. We all
know what painting is, that is just coating an item with a colored liquid
paint which dries and gives it a color. But flocking is when you brush or
spray an item with glue and then you dust it with fibres or powder or
cotton or some substance you want to cover it with to give it a color AND a
fluffy, fuzzy, or sparkling surface. The fuzzy coating that we find on
turntables from the 1930s into the 50s were done this way. In looking up
the definition on the web I find many sites with flocking fiber, powder
flocking, flocking textile, cellulose powder, glitter, mica, pearlscent
flakes, poly plastic, and other such substances with which to flock many
items including Christmas trees.
Michael Biel mbiel@[removed]
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 19:13:51 -0500
From: "Katja and Tom" <kattom@[removed];
To: "OTR Digest" <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Gunsmoke
Someone posted the other day about the recurring "Hi, John" line in Gunsmoke
and whether it was the same John as in the 1952 Christmas episode.
The "History of Gunsmoke" show mentions [removed] so often a producer
would say "Hi, Matt!" in the middle of an episode. Matt would respond "Hi,
John" and move on.
While it may be the same voice/actor as the John character in the Christmas
episode, I don't think it was the same character. It was sort of an inside
joke.
Perhaps the esteemed Mr. Bartell will weigh in on this.
Tom Z.
from the "Oldest Summer Resort in America"
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 23:54:53 -0500
From: BryanH362@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Re: Foul Language
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Well unlike Elizabeth's my family DID NOT talk like that . My grandfather
would never have let anyone into his home with that kind of language . He
viewed such language as crass and ill mannered. People like my grandfather
were quite numerous in those days
and that probably had some effect on why OTR was what it was and is what it
is.
I recall being corrected by an elderly neighbor when I would even say "oh my
god " . It was the lord's name in vain you see. I used to think that these
folks were being nit picky but in the end I prefer it to what I hear from
lips today . So given a choice I''d have given up a few swear words to avoid
what we have today . (if that's all it took ) .
Yes, like some others, I like OTR the way it is. .
Bryan
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End of [removed] Digest V2003 Issue #440
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