Subject: [removed] Digest V2003 #164
From: "OldRadio Mailing Lists" <[removed]@[removed];
Date: 4/19/2003 12:26 PM
To: <[removed]@[removed];

------------------------------


                            The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                              Volume 2003 : Issue 164
                         A Part of the [removed]!
                                 ISSN: 1533-9289


                                 Today's Topics:

  Re: Cincinnati Convention             [ Tedshumaker@[removed] ]
  Press Release on-line                 [ "Martin Grams, Jr." <mmargrajr@hotm ]
  Calling All Western Fans              [ lynn wagar <philcolynn@[removed]; ]
  25 Lone Ranger ETs for $25            [ "joe@[removed]" <sergei01@earthli ]
  "sharing" and other topics.           [ gad4@[removed] ]
  Gay (?) Characters on Radio           [ "david rogers" <david_rogers@hotmai ]
  Re: Blackface                         [ GEORGE WAGNER <gwagneroldtimeradio@ ]
  Re: Gay Characters on the Radio       [ GEORGE WAGNER <gwagneroldtimeradio@ ]
  Today in OTR History                  [ Joe Mackey <joemackey108@[removed] ]
  Hummerts                              [ Phil Harris <ozradio1@[removed]; ]
  GI Jive                               [ "Harry R. Keller" <hrkeller@earthli ]
  Re: Free OTR                          [ littlejc2@[removed] ]
  Digitech thanks                       [ "Nemesis@[removed]" <nemesis@[removed] ]
  Filter mikes                          [ hal stone <dualxtwo@[removed]; ]
  Dastardly dis's                       [ hal stone <dualxtwo@[removed]; ]

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 14:09:04 -0400
From: Tedshumaker@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Re: Cincinnati Convention

Maybe they thought attendence was down because we had so much LARGER ROOMS
for the dealers and the recreations. Wasn't that GREAT. So was the air
conditioning.

Ted

[ADMINISTRIVIA: A little _too_ good; over by the door where I set up my video
camers, I was directly underneath a vent. It got pretty chilly under there
when it was [removed]  ;)   --cfs3]

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 14:10:17 -0400
From: "Martin Grams, Jr." <mmargrajr@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Press Release on-line

Pasting a press release dated a couple weeks ago:

Wake up, America! The biography is almost here!

INFORMATION PLEASE, the popular radio quiz program that played experts for
fall guys, was capital, dependable, adult radio fun for more than a decade
(1938 - 1952). The fast-cracking experts - John Kieran, omniscient sports
columnist for the New York Times; Franklin Pierce Adams, New York Post
columnist; Oscar Levant, composer, pianist, gag-stacked Broadwayfarer - were
acknowledged by listeners as the most knowing of know-it-alls. Master of
Ceremonies Clifton Fadiman was famous for beating the experts to the pun
while he picked the questions submitted each week by listeners. Information
Please spawned a short-lived series of film shorts (1940-1943), a summer-run
television program (1952), at least two card games, and the long-running
Information Please Almanac.

Bearmanor Media is proud to announce an up-and-coming publication scheduled
for a tentative October 2003 release, documenting the history and antics
behind the radio program, INFORMATION PLEASE. Assigned to the task - under
an exclusive contract - is the academically-acclaimed researcher/author
Martin Grams, Jr.

Martin Grams, Jr. is the author and co-author of numerous books about
Old-Time Radio and Old-Time Television, including The Have Gun - Will Travel
Companion (2000), The History of the Cavalcade of America (1999), The Alfred
Hitchcock Presents Companion (2001), Radio Drama: American Programs (2000),
Invitation to Learning (2002), Suspense: Twenty Years of Thrills and Chills
(1998), The Sound of Detection: Ellery Queen's Adventures in Radio (2002),
Inner Sanctum Mysteries: Behind the Creaking Door (2003), The CBS Radio
Mystery Theater: An Episode Guide and Handbook (1999), and more magazine
articles than could possibly be counted.

To the average fan of Old-Time Radio, Mr. Grams is no stranger and his many
of his books come to mind at the sound of his name. Mr. Grams has already
gained access to the private collections of Dan Golenpaul, the creator of
the INFORMATION PLEASE series, including other definitive sources that will
provide superb historical documentation.

Bearmanor Media is responsible for the popular It's That Time Again, The
Great Gildersleeve biography, and the Bickersons Script Book. To pre-order
your copy of the INFORMATION PLEASE book and other Bearmanor Media
publications, as well as learn about the new up-coming releases, check out
[removed].

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 14:10:31 -0400
From: lynn wagar <philcolynn@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Calling All Western Fans

Working in a library I get to see the new books we
buy. One caught my eye.  If you enjoy Westerns/Cowboy
singers, check out this book.

Singing In The Saddle-The History Of The Singing
Cowboys.  By Douglas Gree.

Lot and lots of otr info and references!!

Just thought you might like to know??

Lynn Wagar

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 14:10:54 -0400
From: "joe@[removed]" <sergei01@[removed];
To: "OTR List" <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  25 Lone Ranger ETs for $25

My gosh, Ed, I'm so green with envy, I can't even see straight.

Joe Salerno
[removed]

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 14:11:00 -0400
From: gad4@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  "sharing" and other topics.

Well, this has been a very busy week for the digest. We start off with the
old "2 MP3 or not 2 MP3" conversation. I think we really handled that topic
better than in the past. However that wasn't enough for poor Charlie.  He
now has the "privilege" of moderating the "2 share or not 2 share" and "2
hoard and not 2 hoard". I'm sure he needs us to send him an aspirin bottle
and I appreciate him putting up with us. :)

I originally wrote a long letter to get a lot of pet peeves out. I waited
before mailing, and I'm kind of glad I did. I have many good friends on both
sides of these conversations and in no way do I want to offend anyone.

There are people on both sides that have really good intentions. Some who
believe selling is good to get more out. There are some who are against
selling because they want to save others money. There are also people on
both sides who have their opinion for selfish reasons. I don't want to list
them here, but they're basically concerned about either some one getting
shows for nothing, or someone making money off of shows. I believe most of
us, deep down, love this hobby and really want to help it.

I have an opinion probably in the middle on these topics. I have been a
collectible dealer since 1979 (not otr). Because of that, many people see me
as pro-dealer. But I have also been a collector of collectibles since the
early 70s. The reason I got into collectibles is because I like it. I enjoy
watching old TV and movies and listening to old radio shows. I love the
memorabilia attached also. And from a financial point of view, I think there
is a LOT of other ways to make more money than can be made in this hobby if
the same effort is put in.

I'm listening to what Ted says. I'm hearing Laura's concerns. And I
understand Ed also.  I hear where Ed Carr comes from when he says his
collection is his and no one has a right to tell him to share it. I can't
argue with Ed. His collection is his. When people tell me my collection was
given to me, with the greatest respect, I have to disagree also. I primarily
collect mp3s, but I have spent several years looking for shows, looking
through lists, trading, downloading, and copying cds and, yes, even encoding
my shows and sharing them. My time too has a value and I think that needs to
be respected. I believe ALL of us put time into our collection to make it
what it is.

On the other side of the coin, I do have to give credit where credit is due.
I would probably have squat if it weren't for the nice people out there.
People who have taken the time to allow others to copy their shows or trade
with me. These people have allowed me to build a collection off of their
work. They have traded with me. They have lent me cds. They have posted
shows in newsgroups.  They have supported trading groups. And I even
appreciate dealers who have put stuff up for sale. And this comes not just
from the mp3 world but also from the tape world.  If it weren't for the
people out there (dealers and collectors included) who have got the shows
out in circulation, very few of us would have much.

If I may take your time, Id like to ask everyone to look back to when they
started. When they first fell in love with otr.  I would like to think that
all of us met different kinds of people. We met people who were selfish, who
wanted to brag about all that they had but wouldn't let us have anything. We
met dealers who might have sold material. But I hope most of met fellow
collectors, who supported one another. Who helped each other get more shows
and be friends.

Tapes are expensive. I'm sure we could never ask people to give us the
physical medium that the shows were on. The same thing I don't think anyone
wants from anyone. The same thing is true of cds. No one can ask anyone to
give physical cds to anyone.  On the other side of the coin, I hope we met
people who were willing to trade with us, or lend us shows. Examples are the
fine people who have started collectors clubs. When I look back at my
collecting, the people who have been good to me I appreciate the most.
Those are the people I'd like to be like.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying I want to be leaching source #1. Nor do I
think anyone should be treated that way. But on the other side of the coin,
I believe helping someone who will really appreciate my help and be a friend
in return is worth more than any otr show that I could get. Even if the
person is a dealer who will be making money and I'm able to help him survive.

This reminds me of a little story that was told me. There used to be a comic
book show promoter that went to a collectible show handing out flyers. The
collectible show promoter graciously allowed the man to promote his comic
show at the show. The next month, the collectible show promoter went to the
comic book show to hand out his flyers. The comic promoter said, "no". "But
you handed out your flyers at my show?" he replied. The comic promoter said,
"That was your decision".  I wasn't there to verify the story, but in the
story, how do we think the comic promoter treated the other guy? Yet
hopefully none of us are unintentionally like that.  How many groups and
collectors, who are taking a stand against dealers, are in reality sharing
copies made off of tapes that they took from dealers? How many collectors
with the couple of shows that they're hoarding have added numerous shows to
their collection by the open sharing of others or the open selling of
dealers. How many dealers with the handful of shows they're hoarding are
selling tapes in their catalog released to them by other collectors, dealers
and groups. How many are taking mp3s that others have encoded yet refusing
to give back a little bit in a tiny way.

One thing I've learned is that no matter how much I've given, its impossible
to compare to the amount of shows that I've gotten from others. Even if it's
a trade. When you think about it, look at your collections. How many of them
actually came from your original transcription disks? Most of them are there
because someone else found the disks, someone else made the tapes, and (if
you're an mp3 person) someone else encoded it.

Without criticizing other's decisions, I want to just say that I want to be
like the nice guys. I'm very thankful to those who have shared with me
unconditionally. While there are still shows that I may want, there is VERY
little that I feel the need to run through hoops for. Through the kindness
of many I have more than enough to enjoy for the rest of my life, and no
show has control over me where I have to promise numerous conditions to get
it. Eventually, everything will get out, but regardless, some will be the
heroes and some will be the villains. And to me the honor of helping others
is more important than any show that I could add to my collection.

I'm thinking back to the late 80s when I first attended the FOTR convention.
People would go up to me then and say, "how nice a young person is
interested in us" (that's when I was young (grin)).  Well, thanks to the
Internet, we've gotten a lot of young people into this. In the early 70s,
otr was only about 10 years old. Now, many of the people who are old enough
to remember it are retirement age.  What we decide actually keeps the shows
alive and vibrant to future generations. As even I'm feeling old, I hope
pass the torch successfully to the next generation. Hopefully OTR does not
die out with us.  Not just the shows in a hostile relationship, but
including the love and caring that we put into it.  Hopefully, we set the
example so that the OTR hobby enjoys peace and unity in the future. Not a
"separate but equal" attitude but one where we all can support one another.

Does anyone have to give anyone anything? No. But Id like to simply say
"thank you" to those who have shared unconditionally and let them know
they're appreciated.  There's a lot of good people in this hobby and I'm
honored to know them.   And I hope all people on all sides respect one
another and help one another and try to see where the other is coming from
so they can treat each other, as they would like to be treated and bring the
best out of each [removed]

Thanks for allowing me to talk.

Sincerely,
George

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 14:11:23 -0400
From: "david rogers" <david_rogers@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Gay (?) Characters on Radio

I made a joke about this before but nobody picked up on it. The Julian and
Sandy characters (played by Kenneth Willams and Hugh Padock) from "Round the
Horne" were more than a little questionable with regards to their sexuality.
I do not know where gay ends and effeminate begins. However, you may also
want to consider a character played by Kenneth Williams in Hancock's Half
Hour. Also on the effeminate side but I do not think is neccesarily gay is
the "Bluebottle" character from The Goons. This last one is very debatable
and I will stand corrected on how other people view the character. Whatever
Bluebottle's he was a great comic character.
In all of the above examples the characters are comic characters, played for
laughs. In fact Julian and Sandy are two of my favourite radio characters
who still make me laugh out loud after listening to them for many years.

Love as always, David Rogers

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 14:12:17 -0400
From: GEORGE WAGNER <gwagneroldtimeradio@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Re: Blackface

     Elizabeth mentioned that corked-up minstrel
shows were performed in American high schools as
late as 1976, although they must have been an
extreme rarity by that time.

     The very first burnt-cork roles I ever saw
live on stage were in a Spring, 1956, production
of YOU CAN'T TAKE IT WITH YOU as performed by my
lily-white high school's dramatics club. It's
really the only way to enact this classic comedy
with an all-white cast (without seriously
re-writing the play), but even then there were a
few muted voices of protest within the community.
(The make-up was quite convincing and even
respectful.)

     Burnt-cork was quite common during the first
four or five years of network television. Here in
Cincinnati, it was common on local television as
well - with many of those local productions being
fed out along the Dumont and early ABC wires.

     I remember a routine that John Arthur (he of
radio's NO SCHOOL TODAY) did on an early WKRC-TV
slot. He'd darken one side of his face only, then
use two cameras in order to carry on a
White-Black comedy dialogue with himself (in
profile, obviously).

     It was about 1953 (I was 11 or 12) when the
kibosh came down on all of this. It all stopped
cold and suddenly, and after that I never saw TV
blackface again, other than in old movies and
historical reprises.

     Sincerely,

     George Wagner
     GWAGNEROLDTIMERADIO@[removed]

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 14:12:45 -0400
From: GEORGE WAGNER <gwagneroldtimeradio@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Re: Gay Characters on the Radio

     I think that many of us may have a tendency
to confuse "gay" speech-pattterns with
traditional or even stereotyped "Thespian," the
stage-actors' patois which has evolved down the
centuries.

     The classic example of the latter is
Vitamine Flinthart of Dick Tracy fame.
Flinthart's speech is an exaggeration, but not by
all that much.

     The first time I ever heard the "natural"
voice of that great actor Barton Yarborough, in
candid recordings made in 1939, it struck me as
"subdued Flinthart," or rather the type of
actor's voice that Chester Gould parodied into
Flintheart.

     Sincerely,

     George Wagner
     GWAGNEROLDTIMERADIO@[removed]

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 14:13:07 -0400
From: Joe Mackey <joemackey108@[removed];
To: otr-net <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Today in OTR History

   From Those Were The Days --

  1924 - The Chicago Barn Dance began airing on WLS.

   Joe

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 14:13:15 -0400
From: Phil Harris <ozradio1@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Hummerts

Does anyone know if a biography has been written about
Anne and Frank Hummert? I have not been able to find
any work devoted specifically to these radio giants.
If one does not exist, is someone planning on writing
one?
Thanks for any leads,
Ryan
Ozradio

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 14:13:22 -0400
From: "Harry R. Keller" <hrkeller@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  GI Jive

I recently bought an MP3 disc containing episodes of GI Jive.

Anyone have any info on "GI Jill?" Who she was, what became of her? She has
a really terrific voice and had a great way of talking to the troops.

BTW a friend of mine who worked for AFRS in Korea in the early 50s was in
my office the other day and I popped the disc in the computer and he named
that show in about three bars of the theme song.

Bob Keller
Waukesha, Wisc.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 14:13:35 -0400
From: littlejc2@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Re: Free OTR

Regarding Mark Stratton's posting of 17 Apr 2003:

In the vernacular: "You Go, Mark."

Chester Littlejohn

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 14:13:41 -0400
From: "Nemesis@[removed]" <nemesis@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Digitech thanks

To all of you who have sent me MP3 player information, thanks!

I think I've found the root problem.  It's spelled MediaBay.  I subscribed
to their MP3 download program last year and stopped when I'd gotten the
shows I wanted.

Each download came with a license.  The files played fine on my computer til
now.  Now I get a "you need a license" message.  When I try, I'm denied.  I
PAID for those files and can't use them.  Have contacted MediaBay and will
wait til next week for their answer before getting really mad.
Linda T.
Preparation = Survival
Learn how at [removed]

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 14:14:10 -0400
From: hal stone <dualxtwo@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Filter mikes

Joe Salerno asked;

how was the Shadow's voice acoustically
isolated from other mics (assuming multi-micing, which has not been shown in
photos generally) so that it would not bleed into other channels and leak
over the air un-filtered? Was he behind a gobo or in a booth or did he walk
into an adjacent room?

Hi Joe. I've been out of town for 11 days, and just catching up on past OTR
digests, so I'm not sure if your question was answered.

Undoubtedly, various filter microphone technique were used in the very early
days. I read someplace that in those early years, CBS used a narrow hallway
adjacent to the studio to isolate the sound.

But my earliest recollections at NBC (from 1940 on) was that we always used
filter booths that were wheeled into studios whenever needed. They ranged in
size from one that was not much larger than a phone booth, to the larger
model that could comfortable hold 4 people. They were totally soundproof,
with a thick pane window so the performer could see the director in the
control room.

We never used an adjacent mic. The only time I've seen that done has been at
OTR recreations, since booths are not readily available. As a matter of
fact, at the recent Cincy Convention, the audio control panel was not
capable of creating the filter effect, so the performers talked into plastic
cups held in front of their mouths and achieved a muffled "tinny" filter
sound that way.

regards

Hal(Harlan)Stone
Jughead

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 14:14:36 -0400
From: hal stone <dualxtwo@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Dastardly dis's

Laura leff couldn't leave well enough alone. She [removed]

Rick Keating wrote:

(Don't deny it, Jughead. I know you're the one responsible
for this morning's blizzard. I don't know how, but I know it was you.))

I know how you feel, Rick.  When I jetted back from FOTR and went to my car,
I found a substantial bird calling card on the roof.  I knew it had to have
been due to Hal Stone's method acting.

(Apolgies to those not at FOTR who won't get the reference.)

Ok Laura. That did it. I was about to give you the autographed picture from
Jack, showing me sitting on his lap, but your out of luck now.
Quoth the Raven nevermore!

Totally innocent Hal(Harlan)Stone
"Johnny Dollar" 2003 :)

--------------------------------
End of [removed] Digest V2003 Issue #164
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