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------------------------------
The Old-Time Radio Digest!
Volume 2001 : Issue 396
A Part of the [removed]!
ISSN: 1533-9289
Today's Topics:
OTR Stars on I've Got A Secret [ Tom and Susan Kleinschmidt <tomkle@ ]
WJSV and CBS [ "Eric Cooper" <ejcooper2001@[removed] ]
Re:searching for mp3's again! [ Charlie Summers <charlie@[removed] ]
Today in Radio History [ Joe Mackey <joemackey108@[removed] ]
Virigina Grey on Bickersons [ Ben Ohmart <bloodbleeds@[removed]; ]
Re: MP3 [ OTRChris@[removed] ]
Vocalists' offspring [ Al Girard <agirard@[removed] ]
Fred Caposella (sp?) [ Peter Kinder <pdkinder@[removed]; ]
Re: CARDBOARD RECORDS Redeux [ "Michael Hayde" <mmeajv@[removed]; ]
the MAD record [ John Henley <jhenley@[removed] ]
Re: Paper and flexible records [ Michael Biel <mbiel@[removed]; ]
Red Skelton on Cardboard [ Roo61@[removed] (Randy Watts) ]
Re: Judy Garland Radio Shows [ alo <alo@[removed]; ]
Re: Marconi [ "Dave" <davewh@[removed]; ]
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 10:14:57 -0500
From: Tom and Susan Kleinschmidt <tomkle@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: OTR Stars on I've Got A Secret
Every night I tape the "Overnight In Black and White" segments on The Game
Show Network aired between 4 and 6 AM. This morning, the I've Got A Secret
show was a salute to Old Time Radio, originally broadcast on 7/31/57 and it
was hosted by Henry Morgan as Garry Moore was on vacation. The show was
opened by Westbrook Von Voorhees in a March Of Time style and he made a
brief curtain call, but did not appear on the panel(as Henry stated he had
a radio show to do). Panel members were asked to Identify Theme Songs and
Sound Effects of OTR shows and they had two sound effects men on stage
showing how the sound effects were created. Other guests included Arthur
Tracy(The Street Singer), Adele Ronson(John's Other Wife), Julie
Stevens(The Romance of Helen Trent), Virginia Payne(Ma Perkins), and [removed]
Kaltenborn, whose secret was that he hosted the first radio quiz show in
1923. After his segment they listened to and identifyed great radio voices,
Jay Jostyn(Mr. District Attorney), Pat Barrett(Uncle Ezra), John J.
Anthony(Court Of Human Relations), and Parker Fennelley(Fred Allen Show)
appeared in this segment. The end credits included a voiceover stating that
"Mr. District Attorney continues on both television and radio". The panel
included Bill Cullen, Faye Emerson, Carl Reiner, and Jayne Meadows. Overall
a very enjoyable 30 minutes.
Tom
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 10:15:34 -0500
From: "Eric Cooper" <ejcooper2001@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: WJSV and CBS
On the recordings of what is often referred to among collectors as the
"Complete Broadcast Day" of WJSV in Washington (1939) the sign on and sign
off announcement mentions that WJSV was owned and operated by the Columbia
Broadcasting System. Was this announcer mistaken?
Numerous station lists and records out there in radioland refer to WJSV and
WTOP as being a CBS owned station for a period of time although indeed a
separate news facility was and is operated by CBS in our nations capital. It
is true that the call letters referred to John S. Vance. WTOP Radio is now
owned by Bonneville International Corporation, but remans an Infinity (CBS
Radio/Westwood One) affiliate.
Eric Cooper
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 10:19:47 -0500
From: Charlie Summers <charlie@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Re:searching for mp3's again!
At 12:28 PM -0500 12/12/01, [removed] is rumored to have typed:
Bear in mind that those shows have
been "shrunk" down so far that any quality audio has been lost. I am sure
that they really don't care though. Sadly, it's these cases that give the
mp3 format a bad name.
Actually, I've been watching this discussion for quite a while now
quietly, and find I finally have to speak up. This comment, that 32k/s MP3s
must sound lousy and only 128k/sec or higher are the "holy grail" is, quite
bluntly, a crock.
I did some experimentation a long time ago, with a _licensed_ encoder codec
on a close-to-original source recording (third generation, done by someone
who _really_ cares). I carefully recorded it into the machine as a 16-bit
44kHz AIFF file, normalized and centered the waveform, and then converted to
MP3 in a variety of formats.
I could _clearly_ tell the difference between the original tape and the
MP3 when encoded at 24k/sec. It was _very_ difficult to tell the difference
at 32k/sec, and impossible at 64k/sec and above. The 32k/sec copy of the
recording was _considerably_ better than most cassettes sold by most dealers
(I had a couple to compare it to) BECAUSE OF THE GENERATIONAL LOSS FROM THE
ORIGINAL. Read that again - the 32k/sec encoding was BETTER than stuff being
sold by most dealers. Not worse, but BETTER.
This is the primary reason there's so much crap out there in MP3s;
although there are people who care a _lot_ about the quality of their encodes
(you know who you are; Paradyme, JohnGalt, to name a few), there are a lot of
"kids" who used to trade high-generation cassettes recorded on off-speed
machines recorded at double-speed sourced from a modern AM transmission of the
highly-edited "When Radio Was" program who are now encoding this junk on
non-licensed encoders in real time while surfing the Net at the same time.
[removed] wonder why the quality of many of these MP3s is non-existant?
People like Shawn have legitimate gripes about the low-bitrate MP3s on the
newsgroups. And they have SERIOUS gripes about the "dealers" who sell
collected works on eBay and other auction sites (they didn't do any work,
they give nothing back to the hobby, they are just leeches) - but those who
complain are then extropolating irrationally that the low-bitrate is the
problem, when in reality the problem is high-generational lousily-recorded
source cassettes, "noise reduced" by people without a clue, encoded in real
time by people who don't know any better, and sold by people who don't give a
d*mn. Let's quit knocking 32k/sec MP3s for pleasure listening (archiving is a
_completely_ seperate issue - archived copies should, IMHO, NEVER be
compressed and should be stored at 16-bit 44kHz with no mucking around with
the audio), and stick the blame squarely where it belongs.
Charlie
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 10:22:39 -0500
From: Joe Mackey <joemackey108@[removed];
To: otr-net <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Today in Radio History
From Those Were The Days --
1937 - The Federal Communications Commission was a bit upset with NBC
radio. The FCC scolded the radio network for a skit that starred Mae
West. The satirical routine was based on the biblical tale of Adam and
Eve and, well, it got a bit out of hand. So, following its scolding by
the FCC, NBC banned Miss West from its airwaves for 15 years. Even the
mere mention of her name on NBC was a no-no.
Joe
--
Visit my home page:
[removed]~[removed]
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 21:22:24 -0500
From: Ben Ohmart <bloodbleeds@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Virigina Grey on Bickersons
I have a few Bickersons tv shows on which Virginia
Grey appears as Blanche, but I was curious when she
first appeared as Blanche. Tv or radio? When? Any
leads appreciated. Thanks.
TV & film stills western & nostalgia books
[removed]
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 21:32:19 -0500
From: OTRChris@[removed]
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Re: MP3
12-11-2001
In listening to MP3 files I have heard many OTR shows recorded at a 32 rate
that are excellent. In fact one such show is as good as my radio spirits
tape. Sometimes it is the mini speakers on the computer that restict the
sound . However, I have also heard quite a bit of MP3 that is muffled,
chopped , tinny, too low [removed] But I have also received second hand tape
recordings with the similar problems. So the lack of quality is not simply
an MP3 problem.
My question is :
Can quality exist at a rate of 32 if handled correctly?
Is it also possible that the sound problems are due to other outside
influences other than the rate of encoding used? Anyone have any thoughts?
My biggest complaint with MP3 dealers is that many do not listen to the
files.
Often wrong files abound (such as another program altogether and in a few
cases some rock music
downloads in place of the listed OTR program.)
Repeats listed as other shows is a common error.
Errors in transfer to MP3 also are regular .
Examples: endings cut off and the the openings replaying in their place,
middle sections of the program missing .
It can be a grab bag at time.
But its cheap.
-Chris
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 21:34:11 -0500
From: Al Girard <agirard@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Vocalists' offspring
As I was listening to an Edgar Bergen and Charlie
McCarthy show, where the vocal offering was done by
Gary Crosby, I couldn't help but notice that Gary
sure didn't have the talent that his dad Bing did.
Another singer's offspring that comes to mind is
Nancy Sinatra. We all know how talented her famous
father, Frank was, but his talent didn't rub off on her.
Can anyone think of a vocalist's offspring that
was any good at all? I sure can't.
Al Girard
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 21:26:13 -0500
From: Peter Kinder <pdkinder@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Fred Caposella (sp?)
Fred Caposella, indeed, called races for the New York Racing
Association ([removed], Saratoga, Belmont & Aqueduct race tracks) at least from
the mid- to late-50s into the 70s. In those days, the NYRA was the top of
the US heap, and Caposella would have been the best in the business. I have
a recollection that in the days before winter racing at Aqueduct, he called
races at Hialeah -- but I could be wrong on this. He had a wonderful nasal
New Yawk voice and spoke with the authority of a Brooklyn cabbie.
I have a nagging feeling that his first name was "Frank". The years
haven't been kind to my race track memories, but not as unkind as the ponies
and the puppies were to my ego -- and wallet.
"Announcer" doesn't in any way capture the level of skill
Caposella's job required. Calling eight to ten races a day is one of the
most difficult jobs in sports. It demands mastering upwards of 100 horses'
names and saddle-cloth numbers and then using, say, ten at a time correctly
in an action-filled event lasting between 60 and 120 seconds. When the
audience has real money riding on something, they don't tolerate mistakes.
At least on TV and radio, I never heard Caposella make one. It's also why
you'll never hear the network types call a race. There's too much skill
required.
Peter D. Kinder
[removed]
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 21:34:43 -0500
From: "Michael Hayde" <mmeajv@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Re: CARDBOARD RECORDS Redeux
Responding to Ian Grieve, I wrote:
the disc was actually in OUI [removed]
After which, Dave Walter wrote:
the magazine in question was not Playboy, but one of its competing
cheapjack clones in the skin rag trade, Gallery.
Dave's right, of course. Mea culpa. Dave also mentioned the source of my
confusion:
an issue of Oui that contained a cardstock single of one of the tracks from
The Beatles' audition session for Decca [removed]
THAT issue, I bought; I was not yet an adult when the Gallery came out. My
memory juxtaposed that with Cronkite's narration in the NOVA JFK special.
Thank you, Dave. Next time, I'll just keep my trap shut.
Michael
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 21:33:38 -0500
From: John Henley <jhenley@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: the MAD record
Roby McHone wrote,
Ian Grieve remembers a cardboard record from Playboy magazine. Mad magazine
also gave away a "free" record with each magazine sometime in the late '50s
or early '60s. I don't remember if it was coated cardboard or some type of
plastic, it was quite thin and flexible. As I remember, it mostly consisted
of maniacal laughter.
This is veering off-topic so I'll just say this and go no
further: I don't know if Mad had more than one of these
record inserts, but in the mid-sixties the magazine parodied
(for the ?th time) the rock'n'roll scene by issuing
a record insert that I think was titled "Alfred E. Neuman 'Sings'."
It was on stiff cardboard. (After some time went by, our copy
warped and developed creases.)
I never even got the thing to play all the way through, but what
I remember hearing was a cheezy surf-like rock instrumental
that every few measures did a stop-time so that "Alfred" could
insert a loud belch, hiccup or the like.
You can see a black-and-white repro of that issue's cover illustration
here: [removed]
- scroll down, on the left. Some of the faces on there put it in the
1964-66 range.
--
John Henley
jhenley@[removed]
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 21:32:47 -0500
From: Michael Biel <mbiel@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Re: Paper and flexible records
There's been a lot of confusion and comments about cardbord and flexible
plastic records, and this info might help.
Often called by the generic name "Flexi", "Soundsheet" was the trademark
name of the EvaTone company, which originally was in Deerfield, Illinois
and in the 1980s moved to Clearwater, Florida. While the company is
still in business they ceased production of Soundsheets about two years
ago. They produced many tens of thousands of different ones including
talking magazines for the blind at 8 1/3 RPM in 8-inch size. They
probably were one of the busiest record companies during that era. They
come in many colors, sizes, and thicknesses. Sometimes they were loose
and sometimes bound into a booklet or magazine.
The idea of manufacturing records on thin flexible plastic goes back
into the teens. Around 1924 there was a company [removed] Advertisers
Recording Service which made small plastic records with spoken
advertisements that were stapled to postcards. The also recorded some
excerpts of the 1924 Democratic Convention. The Tuck company in England
moulded plastic records into postcards in the 1920s, and in the 1950s
and 60s in Poland the national record company made record postcards out
of a stiffer and thicker plastic. These are a solid unit of one color
each, not the kind where pictures from a printed cardboard are visible
thru a cellophane coating
on which the grooves were pressed. That type of record usually gives a
much noisier surface.
In the [removed] the major company making these cardboard pressings into
clear celluloid thru which you could see a printed card was Columbia
Records, and their trademark was "Auravision". I have a sample packet
Skelton Pledge of Allegance record. In Digest 366 I discussed the
Durium Hit of the Week paper records from the early 30s which sometimes
included OTR announcers, and produced advertising records. The
cardboard records with the clear surfaces were a more attractive item in
the 1950s, and these could then be found all over the place, including
cereal boxes and in magazines. The one that was considered the start of
the new trend was a Sunbeam razor advertising record that was in a mid
50s magazine like Look or Sat. Evening Post. Bing Crosby was on it, I
seem to recall.
This type of cardboard record was used for one or two issues of a
talking magazine in the [removed], I think it was called Echo. I have the
first issue. I think they got the idea from the Soviets, but the
cardboard version we did was not successful because of the lousy
surfaces and the records being ruined if the magazine was bent in the
mail.
In the Soviet Union 7-inch flexi's were a major part of their record
industry. There was a very successful monthly talking magazine
"Krugazor" which
was published starting in 1964 with 8 double-sided flexi's bound in.
Until the late 80s you could play the whole magazine on the
turntable--it was spiral bound with a hole thru the whole magazine, but
then they switched to a regular size magazine format with the records
stapled in--you had to cut them out of the stapled binding to play
them. The latest copy I have is April 1990, and it is issue # 313.
Krugazor and Echo are not to be confused with talking magazines for the
blind. These magazines were fully illustrated with written articles.
The records were an important part of the magazine--the articles were
about what was on the records.
Melodiya also issued 7-inch flexi singles called "Gybkye", often in
illustrated sleeves. I have some examples of these including one with
its identical issue as a regular vinyl 33 7-inch single. (Remember, the
Soviets never used the 45 RPM speed.)
I'll end by mentioning that the plastic dictating discs that Owens
Pomeroy mentioned a few digests ago are different from what have been
discussed here because those are individually recorded, of course, while
the ones mentioned here are manufactured in the thousands--and sometimes
the millions--of copies! But the thin flexible plastic itself is fairly
similar. Some of the dictating machines that used them were the
SoundScrober, Gray Autograph, and the Edison Voicewriter. This plastic
was also used in a flexible "cylinder" form by Dictaphone, called the
Dictabelt.
Michael Biel mbiel@[removed]
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 21:26:22 -0500
From: Roo61@[removed] (Randy Watts)
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Red Skelton on Cardboard
As for actual cardboard discs: does
anybody remember when you could get a
Monkees record on the back of a box of
cereal circa 1971?
The only cardboard record I own is of Red Skelton, offering his
interpretation of the Pledge of Allegiance. I have no idea when it came
out, other than that I've had it since I was a child, and it was a
Burger King promo.
Randy
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 21:34:00 -0500
From: alo <alo@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Re: Judy Garland Radio Shows
At 10:21 AM 12/12/2001 -0500, "Rebekah" wrote in part:
I'm a fan of several classic stars and right now I'm trying to
collect every radio show featuring Judy Garland. Unfortunately, I've been
having plenty of trouble finding a few titles. If anyone can help me find
these shows, I'd be very grateful.
As a fair number of the list members know, I've been researching Judy
Garland's radio career for a while now. & I'm happy to report that all the
broadcasts on your list exist, though one is known to be a partial copy only.
As Judy's radio career spanned more than 4 decades, there is certainly
plenty of it, from public service announcements to musical variety work to
radio dramatizations. Perhaps a primer in OTR itself might be helpful (I've
found it so).
There is no better place than this list for general OTR information. :-)
I'll spare the blushes of all the folks who've helped me, but you know who
you are. :-)
Best of luck.
Amanda
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 09:12:35 -0500
From: "Dave" <davewh@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Re: Marconi
CBC " This Morning " gave Guglielmo Marconi a salute this morning. One
hundred years ago today at Signal Hill in St John's, Newfoundland Marconi
received the world's first transatlantic wireless signal, three dots - the
letter " S " in Morse code - and radio was born. The show had a great
interview with Princess Elettra, Marconi's daughter. Among the things she
had to say was that her father loved travelling by boat and took every
opportunity to sail. He made 87 transatlantictrips!
--------------------------------
End of [removed] Digest V2001 Issue #396
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