------------------------------
The Old-Time Radio Digest!
Volume 2001 : Issue 257
A Part of the [removed]!
ISSN: 1533-9289
Today's Topics:
Agatha Christie OTR [ "Philip Railsback" <philiprailsback ]
LOC Holdings [ dabac@[removed] ]
Re: Early Stereo [ Cnorth6311@[removed] ]
Stereo Radio-TV [ "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@ ]
Paul Frees on Jack Benny? [ Ben Ohmart <bloodbleeds@[removed]; ]
Early Stereo TV sound [ Paulurbahn@[removed] ]
KMOX signal [ "Bob Watson" <crw912@[removed]; ]
"FAKE" BROADCASTS [ "Owens Pomeroy" <opomeroy@[removed]; ]
some observations [ "Mark Kinsler" <kinsler33@[removed] ]
WJZ [ "A. Joseph Ross" <lawyer@attorneyro ]
Old Time - Stereo???? [ "A. Joseph Ross" <lawyer@attorneyro ]
Old-time stereo [ "roncarol" <roncarol@[removed]; ]
Re: Old Time - Stereo???? [ "James B. Wood, [removed]" <woodjim@ ]
Archie Rothman [ "B. J. Watkins" <kinseyfan@hotmail. ]
NARA [ "B. J. Watkins" <kinseyfan@hotmail. ]
tapes in water: what you don't know [ "Art Shifrin" <goldens2@[removed] ]
Michael Biel, History [ dabac@[removed] ]
Koss CDP-3000 CD--update [ Bob Noble <bobnoble@[removed]; ]
Simulcast [ "David L. Easter" <david-easter@hom ]
"Schaub-Lorenz" Radio [ "David L. Easter" <david-easter@hom ]
Stereo TV - Radio [ "Ted Kneebone" <tkneebone1@[removed] ]
Another word on WJZ [ John Henley <jhenley@[removed] ]
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 21:34:24 -0400
From: "Philip Railsback" <philiprailsback@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Agatha Christie OTR
On another note, in considering all of the detectives appearing on >the
airwaves, the Agatha Christie folks, Poirot, Marple, et al, are
conspicuously absent from radio. Does anyone know why?
I probably won't be the first to mention this, but there was an OTR show
starring Poirot. I don't know the network or when it was on or how long it
lasted -- though my guess would be the mid forties and it didn't last long.
I've heard a couple of episodes and they're not really that good, at least
nowhere near the quality of the more recent BBC adaptations. The shows I
heard were not adapted from Christie's stories but were original. In fact
Hercule was relocated to New York for the series.
Much as I like OTR, they did miss the boat in a lot of areas. For instance,
it seems to me that when when books were adapted for radio it was almost
always because they were already popularized in the movies. Imagain all the
thousands of books and plays that could have been done, but weren't. And
when books were adapted they were far too condensed. I suspect that 2 hours
of sitting in front of the radio for one show was just too much for most
people. Was that the case? I know I've never heard a show longer than an
hour.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 21:34:22 -0400
From: dabac@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: LOC Holdings
Elisabeth McLeod previously had mentioned the fact that these programs
were unavailable to the general public and expressed the opinion that
they were unlikely to ever be released on the commercial market, which
causes me to wonder: Were this the case - what possible benefit would
it be to the copyright`s holders (or to anyone else) of such an
arrangement, having the programs essentially locked up in this manner?
While I understand the function and intent of the loc, given the extent
of the otr community and the state of modern recording technology, I
cannot understand why this would longer be necessary? D. Bacca
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 23:31:21 -0400
From: Cnorth6311@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Re: Early Stereo
>From charlie@[removed] Wed Aug 8 23:33:18 2001
Return-Path: <charlie@[removed];
Received: from [[removed]] ([removed] [[removed]])
by [removed] ([removed]) with ESMTP id XAA29470
for <[removed]@[removed];; Wed, 8 Aug 2001 23:33:17 -0400
X-Envelope-From: charlie@[removed]
Old-X-Envelope-To: <[removed]@[removed];
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Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 23:30:07 -0400
To: [removed]@[removed]
From: Udmacon@[removed]
Subject: Stereo on TV and Radio
Tom Barnett asks:
I remember my Great Grandfather telling me of days when (at the
beginning of Television) radio was used to add dimension to television
sound.
The stereo effect was achieved by broadcasting one channel as part of the
television feed - and the second channel was sent out over radio. If you sat
your radio set near the TV you could here the (then) truly amazing sound
spectrum and separation (as much as possible with the low fidelity
speakers)
My question is two-fold:
a) is this true (or was Pappy fibbing again)?
and
b) Would a broadcast station turn over their airwaves to be a symmetrical
leg to television?
Maybe part time (evenings?) but I don't think a station would broadcast in
this manner all day long, would they?
TOM: I remember that in the '50s WQXR occasionally fed stereo through its AM
and FM signals, but that doesn't answer your questions. But your post DOES
tweak memories, and I vaguely recall a few occasions wherein a TV station
would send out a stereo broadcast via the TV audio and a "friendly" AM or FM
station. It probably was PBS Channel 13 and WNYC or WQXR. Just guessing.
Bill Knowlton, "BLUEGRASS RAMBLE," WCNY-FM: Syracuse, Utica, Watertown NY
(since Jan. 1973). Sundays, 9 pm est: [removed]
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 23:31:23 -0400
From: "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Stereo Radio-TV
Tom Barnett, speaking of radio & television simulcasts to get a stereo
effect, asks,
) Would a broadcast station turn over their airwaves to be a
symmetrical leg to television?
Some shows were simulcast on TV and radio; one example was the early
1950s Arthur Godfrey show. This was not to get a stereo effect, but it
could have by using separate microphones from those used for the
television audio.
I believe that in some major cities, there was some experimentation on
using a TV as a central channel, an AM channel as one directional and the
FM channel for the other. The telecasts, as I recall, were of orchestral
numbers, which would work as well on radio as television.
Stephen A. Kallis, Jr.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 23:31:14 -0400
From: Ben Ohmart <bloodbleeds@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Paul Frees on Jack Benny?
I have an interview with Paul Frees in which he states
that he was on some Jack Benny and Burns & Allen
episodes, but I don't know which ones. Can anyone make
a guess which these might be?
Thanks.
Check out Fibber McGee's Scrapbook, a new otr book!
[removed]
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 08:51:26 -0400
From: Paulurbahn@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Early Stereo TV sound
Tom wrote:
The stereo effect was achieved by broadcasting one channel as
part of the television feed - and the second channel was sent out over
radio.
If you sat your radio set near the TV you could here the (then) truly
amazing
sound
spectrum and separation (as much as possible with the low fidelity
speakers)
Tom it's true and still goes on today in a modified form. I remember in the
late 50s and early 60s bringing the radio (AM then) into the living room from
the kitchen for one of these similicasts. I don't remember a particular
performance but seems like they were generally on NBC (someone can correct me
if I am wrong).
NBC TV stations frequently had a radio affiliate in the same building so the
idea of running stereo sound by microwave was no big thing. They were not
regular shows but specials. Seems like the left channel was on the TV and the
right was on the mono AM radio station. It may have been easier if you had
one of those big console radio/tv/record player cabinet stereos but we didn't
have one. The stereo effect was there and the quality probably depended on
how good your radio was. stereo does not require a wide fidelity range, the
back channel speakers in a surround sound system are quite restricted and
provide very dynamic effect.
Recently A&E broadcast the Live By Request Special with Neikl Diamond. Though
produced as a TV show, the audio sound was carried by the Jones Radio network
(a major syndicator of satellite feed programming).
Some of our newspaper rearchers on this list can probably cite some actual
broadcasts using this method, as they were highly [removed] I have a book
on WQXR and it may mention such broadcasts in New York, but I can't put my
hands on it right now.
Paul Urbahns
paulurbahn@[removed]
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 08:51:30 -0400
From: "Bob Watson" <crw912@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: KMOX signal
While Ivan was listening to KMOX in Ravenswood WV, maybe I should have
mentioned that I was listening to KMOX slap dab in the middle of Georgia.
Ah, the wonders of the AM radio signal. And the variety that could be found
there.
Bob
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 08:51:37 -0400
From: "Owens Pomeroy" <opomeroy@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: "FAKE" BROADCASTS
In reference to the many recreated history events on OTR that have been
mentioned in the last few postings (March Of Time, You Are There), there was
a very unique network that recreated Sports events right off the AP Wire.
It was the Liberty Broadcasting Network (Do any of those broadcasts still
exsist?). It consisted of an engineer/announcer and a SFX man sitting in
the studio relating the sports event on a delayed basis. The effect was
perfect and made you think you were actually listening to a baseball game,
fight, football game, track meet, horse race, etc. This was really a perfect
example of what was meant by "the magic and power of radio" and the
imagination of the "theatre of the mind."
Owens Pomeroy
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 08:51:49 -0400
From: "Mark Kinsler" <kinsler33@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: some observations
But I remember my Great Grandfather telling me of days when (at the
beginning of Television) radio was used to add dimension to television
sound.
The stereo effect was achieved by broadcasting one channel as part of the
television feed - and the second channel was sent out over radio. If you
sat your radio set near the TV you could here the (then) truly amazing
sound spectrum and separation (as much as possible with the low fidelity
speakers)
a) is this true (or was Pappy fibbing again)?
Probably, but it wouldn't have been done for anything but a special music
program. My guess is that he's recalling something slightly different: in
the days before FM multiplexed stereo broadcasting, there were a few
experiments with stereo that involved broadcasting one channel of a musical
performance on an FM station and broadcasting the other channel on an AM
station. The listener was instructed to place two radios seven feet apart
and on the same level and tune them such that "the sound of my voice appears
to come from a point directly between the radio sets," as I recall the
announcer saying. (My father swiped my AM radio for the purpose.) There
were only a few of these broadcasts.
The radio stations wouldn't have cared much, because
typically every FM station was owned by a company that operated an AM
station, and they generally broadcast the same programming anyway. The FM
station was maintained as a tax write-off--only the AM station ever made any
money. It's precisely the opposite today.
...................
This radio is a large table top unit called the "Schaub-Lorenz" Radio. >The
instruction manual (carefully preserved in an envelope taped to >the back
of the radio with a single repair slip from the late 1950s or >early 1960s)
is half in German and English.
I'm not familiar with this specific unit, but most of those big German
radios were imported in the 1950's and early 1960's after Germany had
rebuilt some of their manufacturing capacity. They were quite innovative:
some of them had electrostatic speakers on the side of the cabinet and
elaborate tuning-eye arrangements. They were consistent nightmares to
repair. But your radio probably received plenty of OTR: remember, it lasted
well into the 1960's.
.........................
Ask some of your friends who came first - Mozart or Shakespeare, >Mozart or
Beethoven, and, if they're young, Mozart or Einstein.
Beethoven was presented to Mozart as a teenager. Mozart wasn't impressed
with the awkward lad until Beethoven played a few variations he'd composed
on Mozart's themes. Beethoven's earliest music sounds very much like
Mozart's.
M Kinsler
eternal font of knowledge, some of it correct.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 08:51:57 -0400
From: "A. Joseph Ross" <lawyer@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: WJZ
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 22:44:08 -0400
From: Richard Carpenter <sinatra@[removed];
Catching up with a week's worth of OTR Digests, I find a couple of
references to station WJZ in New York City. Those call letters received an
immortality of sorts by being mentioned in the song "Jumpin' with Symphony
Sid,"
The station is also mentioned in the famous "viaduct" routine, done by
Groucho and Chico Marx in "The Cocoanuts." At some point, Groucho
is showing Chico a map of the area and says something about a radius.
He says, "You know what a radius is, don't you?"
"Sure," says Chico. "That's-a WJZ."
And Groucho says, "What you're thinking of is a rodeo."
A. Joseph Ross, [removed] [removed]
15 Court Square, Suite 210 lawyer@[removed]
Boston, MA 02108-2503 [removed]
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 08:52:04 -0400
From: "A. Joseph Ross" <lawyer@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Old Time - Stereo????
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 21:30:10 -0400
From: "Tom Barnett" <barnettl@[removed];
But I remember my Great Grandfather telling me of days when (at the
beginning of Television) radio was used to add dimension to television
sound.
I remember, sometime in the late 1950s, when some AM-FM combos
used to do stereo broadcasts by having one channel on AM and one on
FM, there was at least one episode of "Walt Disney Presents" on ABC
television which featured AM-TV-FM stereo. I don't remember what the
program was about, but I think it was something classical, possibly the
Sleeping Beauty with a classical score. Anyway, the way it was done
was that you were told to place an AM radio on the left tuned to your
local ABC station and an FM radio on your right tuned to your local
ABC station's FM signal. With the TV in the middle, you supposedly
got full stereo sound.
As for why a radio station would do that, in this case, it was probably
arranged by the network with its affiliates. It probably would have
worked best where there was an AM-FM-TV combo, which was not all
that unusual in those days. In Boston, the local ABC radio affiliate at
the time was a daytimer which signed off at sunset. I don't know what
happened, but since the ABC-TV affiliate was WHDH-TV, I wouldn't be
surprised if WHDH and WHDH-FM radio carried the radio end of it.
A. Joseph Ross, [removed] [removed]
15 Court Square, Suite 210 lawyer@[removed]
Boston, MA 02108-2503 [removed]
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 09:08:15 -0400
From: "roncarol" <roncarol@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Old-time stereo
First time posting
I don't think I am as old as your great grandfather, but I do remember that
Walt Disney did a broadcast of "Fantasia" in the early 60's ( or late 50's)
with the method you described. We were unable to take advantage of it
because we could not tune in the radio station
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 09:08:12 -0400
From: "James B. Wood, [removed]" <woodjim@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Re: Old Time - Stereo????
Never heard of this. There was AM/FM stereo radio on an experimental
basis for a very short while, but to the best of my knowledge no TV
production was ever filmed or done live in stereo, let alone broadcast
that [removed] that is until the Zenith MTS stereo system was adopted in the
mid-1980s.
Maybe your grandad was thinking of a few of the early TVs that, at a
reduced price, were available with no audio system of their own, using
the living room radio/phono console for sound.
Jim Wood, INOVONICS, INC.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 09:08:06 -0400
From: "B. J. Watkins" <kinseyfan@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Archie Rothman
On Wed, 8 Aug 2001 Tom Kleinschmidt posted:
This talk about Long John Nebel introducing some
people to OTR reminded me of Archie Rothman. Anyone
know whatever became of him? Archie did a show on WMMS
in Cleveland in the mid to late 1970's called Archie
Rothman's Time Machine. On the show he did a little of
everything.
Archie had a show on KCSN [removed] Northridge (Los Angeles) in the early 1980's
called "Archie Rothman's Time Machine". I started at KCSN in the fall of
1979 and I believe that he was already on then. I can't recall when he left
the station. Probably in the mid-80's, but I still saw him around town. I
saw him most recently within the last year or two at a Pacific Pioneer
Broadcasters' luncheon. As far as I know he's still around.
Barbara
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 09:08:01 -0400
From: "B. J. Watkins" <kinseyfan@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: NARA
As I recall, a few days ago someone mentioned they had heard that Ron Staley
had resigned as president of NARA. This is just a rumor. Ron told me
yesterday that he is still president.
I do add my thank you to Jim Snyder for the fine and difficult job he did as
NARA's newsletter editor. Editor is probably the toughest job in any club.
Barbara
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 09:07:59 -0400
From: "Art Shifrin" <goldens2@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: tapes in water: what you don't know can be
hurtful
Hi,
There are at least two very important reasons why water can be inherently
damaging to tapes:
1. if they're metal formulations
2. if they happened to be made with hydrophilic binders
The plague of 'sticky shed' is due to the binders having become viscous,
'gooey' (whatever) by reacting to environmental humidity. Immersion in
water is a shock to such tapes, and in my opinion, sets off a time bomb of
self destruction.
Tapes that have been stressed as such should be cleaned by people
experienced in recovery techniques and duplicated immediately so that the
survival of their contents is assured.
Best Regards,
Shiffy
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 09:07:54 -0400
From: dabac@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Michael Biel, History
I also wish to commend Mr. Biel for standing up and stateing the facts
as he saw them - did`nt those people realize that their booing was only
a reflection upon themselves? On the history subject, someone mentioned
the need to be able to "see the past without filtering it thru the
present". One example of this that comes to mind is how people -
refering to the famous war of the worlds broadcast, will increduously
ask how people could possibly fall for such a thing? I`m sure that most
people then, as now, believed in the possibility of some type of alien
life form, combine that with the fact that at the time there were no
space probes and no one really knew anything about conditions on mars,
and also considering how in some respects people of the time were not as
"sophisticated" as today, I think it becomes a little less implausable.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 09:07:49 -0400
From: Bob Noble <bobnoble@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Koss CDP-3000 CD--update
Yes, a portable MP3 would be nice, but I was able to find a very
affordable unit at Sam's Club. This just struck my eye when I was there
and I brought in some MP3 CDs to check it out.
Model is a Daewoo DVD player DVG-3000N and it cost about $98 or $99
I didn't need, and wasn't looking for a DVD machine, but when I saw it
played MP3s, I figured I'd give it a try. I knew some of my Suspense
shows were embedded in folders, not directly on the highest level of the
CD's desktop. We were able to get it to play the programs just fine, but
of course had no idea what show we were hearing.
The machine has two headphone jacks with separate volume controls (other
machines with the same playback features had no headphone jacks at all,
and were priced even higher).
When I got it home, I found out that when it's connected to the TV and
you play MP3s, it will provide a list of all the program files, just as
if you had it on your computer. It doesn't provide the full filename,
but maybe the first 8 characters or so. In my case, the filename had the
show date on it, and that's what I saw on my TV. You also see a list of
all the folders on the disk, and can switch between different ones.
Fairly comprehensive, for an inexpensive machine. It also plays regular
CDs nicely and I'm assuming the DVD part is good too, though I have yet
to try that.
I've hooked it up with a switch on the audio, so I can send it to the TV
or to a separate amplifier. Thus if I want to listen to OTR MP3s or to
regular audio CDs, I can just turn on the amp and not have to listen
through my stereo TV speakers.
Only one downside: after I had the unit a week or so, the little tray
which holds the disk refused to pop out when I hit the eject button. I
explained the problem and Sams exchanged it with no questions asked. The
second unit (so far) is working just fine.
This gives me a nice alternative, because heretofore the only way I
could play my OTR MP3s was to boot up my Mac computer and listen to them
on that.
--Bob Noble
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 09:07:41 -0400
From: "David L. Easter" <david-easter@[removed];
To: "Old-Time Radio Digest (E-mail)" <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Simulcast
In response to Tom Barnett,
But I remember my Great Grandfather telling me of days when (at the
beginning of Television) radio was used to add dimension to television
sound.
The stereo effect was achieved by broadcasting one channel as part of the
television feed - and the second channel was sent out over radio. If you sat
your radio set near the TV you could here the (then) truly amazing sound
spectrum and separation (as much as possible with the low fidelity
speakers)
I remember when I was in my early teens (mid to late 50's) quite a few TV
broadcasts were "simulcast", [removed] broadcast on TV and Stereo-FM. I had to
re-arrange and re-wire the family stereo to properly place the speakers in
the living room. Simulcasts have continued since then and also appear on the
internet.
Whether simulcasts were done earlier, I can't say. They seemed to think it
was pretty innovated at the time.
David L. Easter
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 09:07:12 -0400
From: "David L. Easter" <david-easter@[removed];
To: "Old-Time Radio Digest (E-mail)" <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: "Schaub-Lorenz" Radio
Re: Tom Barnett
This radio is a large table top unit called the "Schaub-Lorenz" Radio.
My references indicate these radios were made from the late '50's through
the '80's.
David L. Easter
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 09:17:21 -0400
From: "Ted Kneebone" <tkneebone1@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Stereo TV - Radio
Tom Barnett asked about the time when radio and TV linked together to
produce stereo.
1. Yes, that did happen in South Dakota for a brief time in the 1950s.
At that time Aberdeen, SD had only one TV station (a sort of satellite)
which also owned a radio station in Sioux Falls. My recollection is that
one channel was broadcast as TV audio/video on KDLO-TV and the radio channel
was on KELO-AM, in Sioux Falls, 200 miles away. Unfortunately, in Aberdeen
we got the TV signal OK but the radio signal was very weak. I assume the
people in Sioux Falls got the "stereo" effect, but that must have been
pretty local.
2. As for coverage, it was a brief experiment. Did not last all day.
I think it was only an hour or two on a Sunday afternoon. Don't know if
they tried other experiments or not. It might have worked if KELO-TV (Sioux
Falls) had had radio stations in other cities, but they didn't.
Ted Kneebone / 1528 S. Grant St. / Aberdeen, SD 57401
tkneebone1@[removed] / OTR: [removed]
Kids radio play: [removed]
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 09:42:30 -0400
From: John Henley <jhenley@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Another word on WJZ
Richard Carpenter wrote,
Catching up with a week's worth of OTR Digests, I find a couple of
references to station WJZ in New York City. Those call letters received an
immortality of sorts by being mentioned in the song "Jumpin' with Symphony
Sid," a paean to the disc jockey who broadcast jazz over WJZ.
Let us not forget the station's other, maybe preeminent claim to
[removed]
the conversation between Groucho and Chico Marx in "The Cocoanuts":
Groucho: Now look, this is a map and diagram of the whole Cocoanut
secion. This whole area is within a radius of approximately, eh, three-
quarters of a [removed] there a remote possibility that you
know what "radius" means?
Chico: Sure, 'ats'a WJZ.
Groucho: Well, I walked right into that [removed]
John Henley
jhenley@[removed]
ph (512) 495-4112
fax (512) 495-4296
--------------------------------
End of [removed] Digest V2001 Issue #257
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