Subject: [removed] Digest V2003 #332
From: "OldRadio Mailing Lists" <[removed]@[removed];
Date: 9/4/2003 8:05 AM
To: <[removed]@[removed];

------------------------------


                            The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                              Volume 2003 : Issue 332
                         A Part of the [removed]!
                                 ISSN: 1533-9289


                                 Today's Topics:

  Clayton Moore                         [ "A. Joseph Ross" <lawyer@attorneyro ]
  Today in radio history                [ Joe Mackey <joemackey108@[removed] ]
  Ron's 20:1 OTR Trading Post           [ "Ron Vanover" <rvanover@[removed] ]
  On the economic impacts of .mp3 on R  [ "[removed]" <[removed]@[removed] ]
  A Question about Failing CD's         [ "David Easter" <DavidEaster@comcast ]
  Woman Of The Year                     [ Kenneth Clarke <kclarke5@[removed]; ]
  Re:CD Live expectancy                 [ jlsalley@[removed] ]
  New vs. old technology                [ Ron Sayles <bogusotr@[removed]; ]
  Gildersleeve trivia                   [ Steve Salaba <philmfan@[removed] ]
  Re: CD Life                           [ Shenbarger@[removed] ]
  Rhonda Fleming                        [ "Walden Hughes" <hughes1@[removed]; ]
  Hastings credits                      [ hal stone <dualxtwo@[removed]; ]
  Re: A Question about Failing CD's     [ "MICHAEL BIEL" <mbiel@[removed]; ]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 10:22:21 -0400
From: "A. Joseph Ross" <lawyer@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Clayton Moore

Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:26:02 -0400
From: Sandy Singer <sinatradj@[removed];

On this day in 1979, an LA Court ordered Clayton Moore to unmask

Well, not quite.  On suit brought by Wrather Corporation, who were about to come out with 
the Lone Ranger movie starring Clinton Spilsbury, the court ordered Moore not to make 
public appearances wearing the mask.  That's not quite the same as ordering him to 
unmask.  Until the order was lifted (after the movie bombed), Moore made his public 
appearances wearing aviator sunglasses.

-- A. Joseph Ross, [removed] [removed] 15 Court Square, Suite 210 lawyer@[removed] Boston, MA 02108-2503 [removed] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 10:22:31 -0400 From: Joe Mackey <joemackey108@[removed]; To: otr-net <[removed]@[removed]; Subject: Today in radio history From Those Were The Days -- 1954 - (New episodes of) The Lone Ranger was heard for the final time after 2,956 episodes spanning 21 years. Joe -- Visit my homepage: [removed]~[removed] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 10:22:39 -0400 From: "Ron Vanover" <rvanover@[removed]; To: <[removed]@[removed]; Subject: Ron's 20:1 OTR Trading Post I want to advise all friends of oldtime radio that my website, Ron's 20:1 OTR Trading Post, is up and running at a new address. Our relocation from Pennsylvania to Ohio was a far longer process than I thought it would be. Because I've lived away from home for much of this calendar year, my OTR activities have been on hold for several months. I'm pleased to say that life is beginning to feel normal again. The new address for The Trading Post is [removed]. I am still offering 20, 10, or 2 episodes of programming (digital format only) for each episode I receive for selected programs I'm trying to obtain. Currently I'm looking for episodes of The Life of Riley, Father Knows Best, The Adventures of Ozzie and Harriet, The Great Gildersleeve, Bill Stern's Colgate Sports Newsreel, Adventures in Research, Best Plays, Life with Luigi, The Lux Radio Theater, Screen Director's Playhouse, The Radio Reader's Digest, and The Whistler. Please stop in and visit the Ron's 20:1 OTR Trading Post anytime. Regards, Ron ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 11:55:08 -0400 From: "[removed]" <[removed]@[removed]; To: <[removed]@[removed]; Subject: On the economic impacts of .mp3 on Radio Spirits In 331, Jim Widner said:
I would only expect as much. Despite their high market presence,
I suspect they are no different from even our friendly vendors.
It is simply that the Internet and the free mp3's floating around
make it very tough to sell in such an environment.  <SNIP>

I'm afraid I have to disagree with some of Jim's analysis.  To argue that
Radio Spirits sales are down due entirely to .mp3's is, IMHO, an
over-simplification.

This argument seems, to me, to be very similar to the one being made by the
RIAA.  In any report about CD sales being down, the RIAA issues a statement
blaming it on file-swapping.  However, I've seem multiple reports about sales
of books being down as well.  I don't think anyone could say that
file-swapping networks like Kazaa or Gnucleus are responsible for the drop in
book sales.

>From an economics point of view, I would argue that books and CD's (and
slick-packaged OTR sets a la Radio Spirits) are very similar goods
(interchangeable goods?).  The are marketed very similarly (often in the same
store), are media products, non-essential, etc.  Also, they are not
inexpensive: $18 for a full price CD, $25-30 for a hardcover book, $40-60 for
an OTR set.  Under poor economic conditions, sales of these type of goods are
going to decline.  It's almost axiomatic.

I know that to many of us obsessives OTR is an essential good, but I don't
think Radio Spirits is directing its marketing primarily at us OTR-geeks.  I
believe they are going for the book store browsing crowd, and in uncertain
economic times, these types of consumers are going to be spending less on all
types of media purchases.

[To stray off topic for just a moment - I also believe that CD sales are down
due to the music being put out as well.  It is all becoming very similar -
try buying a popular CD without a track produced by The Neptunes.  Hopefully,
another revolution will come along - Like the Nirvana/Public Enemy revolution
of the early 90's - that will re-invigorate popular music]

Am I saying that .mp3's are not at all responsible for declining RS sales?
(Or that Kazaa has no responsibility for declining CD sales?)  Of course not,
I'm sure it has an impact, but I don't believe that .mp3 is the only cause of
all our evils.  I believe that pricing, availability, and economic factors
also have an impact that is at least as big, if not bigger.  Besides, .mp3
just makes trading files easier, it didn't create trading.  How many of you
have swapped copies of OTR shows on cassette or reel that you could have
bought as 1st generation dubs from Radio Spirits or any other dealer???
We've always traded shows, .mp3 is different only in scope.

-chris holm

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Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 13:13:24 -0400
From: "David Easter" <DavidEaster@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  A Question about Failing CD's
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The report that started this thread is in Dutch. Has anyone actually read
it? Or found a translation?

I would like to know the conditions of the tests and the brands tested.

That information could go a long way to explaining the results.

David

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Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 13:13:46 -0400
From: Kenneth Clarke <kclarke5@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Woman Of The Year

Kermyt Anderson asked:

One of the actors shown listening to "Information Please"
in that scene was soon to become a major radio star in
his/her own right.  Who was this person and what was the
radio show?

          That's easy.  The star in question was William Bendix,
who played the ex-boxer, turned bartender named "Pinky"  in
"Woman of the Year".   He is best known for his role as Riley in
"The Life of Riley".

Kenneth Clarke

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 15:18:06 -0400
From: jlsalley@[removed]
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Re:CD Live expectancy

RE: I guess my assumption is wrong; but I was thinking that as long as the
"Plexiglass" material of a cd remains intact or has no holes or defects in
its surface, that the aluminum reflective layer wouldn't be exposed to air,
thereby preventing the deterioration of the information on the disc. Is this
not true?

You will probably get several responses to this, so I'll try and be brief.
A commercialy produced CD, whether music or programs, is not made the same
way you produce your own CDs.  A regular CD that you buy has a layer
(polycarbonate, I think) that is molded with the digital information on the
disk.  This is then coated with aluminum or an aluminum alloy reflective
layer and is then covered with another layer of plastic.  The information is
a part of the CD, molded into it.
A CD-R or CD-RW that you write (or "burn") yourself has a layer of organic
dye which the laser records information on.  It is much more subject to
change from heat, being mishandled, etc.
I know there are people who have never had their CDs go bad on them.  Some
of them seem to last forever.  The fact is I can produce quite a few CDs
that I have burned myself over the years that no longer are playable.  Some
people have never had a hard drive crash - I've had only one myself since I
first started using them.  I imagine there are even people who never lost
any information on a floppy disk.
The simple fact is that any recordable medium is subject to failure - floppy
disks, hard drives, CD-Rs.  Usually they fail after misuse, but they can
fail from extreme use just like a tape or vinyl record will "fail" from too
much use.  And sometimes they just seem to die (hard drives, CD-R's and
floppies) for no reason at all.
My own feelings - CD's are wonderful, but they are not perfect and should
not be considered permanent anymore than any other storage medium.  They
probably are just as permanent as any other medium.  Anything that you are
trying to keep as a backup should be checked just to make sure the
information is still there.

Jerry Salley

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 15:34:35 -0400
From: Ron Sayles <bogusotr@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  New vs. old technology

From: Musiciantoo47@[removed] wrote:

I have made Hundreds of homemade CDs in the last 3 years and I would hate to
think that they're gonna be unplayable in just a few years.

We are all so quick to discard old technology for anything new that comes
along. I have over 12,000 cassettes with some dating back to the 1960s. The
cassettes that are from the 1960s play just fine with no problems what ever.
Maybe we shouldn't be so quick to jump on the new technology bandwagon. I will
take cassettes over CDs any day of the week.

Ron Sayles
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Hometown of [removed] Kaltenborn and Jay Jostyn

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 15:56:09 -0400
From: Steve Salaba <philmfan@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Gildersleeve trivia

I seem to recall a movie called "Weekend Pass" or "7 Day Pass" where Gildy
appeared as a supporting character. The flick also starred Victor Mature
and Lucille Ball and a scene took place at a broadcast of radio's "Truth or
Consequences". I'nm sure the more knowledgeable among you will remember the
correct title:)
--
Steve Salaba
SoftWear Toys & Tees ([removed])
Lois Bujold Merchandise, Science Fictional Wearables and Furry Puppets

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 17:54:19 -0400
From: Shenbarger@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Re: CD Life
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In a message dated 9/3/2003 9:26:49 AM Central Daylight Time,  Kenny
writes:

I guess my assumption is wrong; but I was thinking that as long as the
"Plexiglass" material of a cd remains intact or has no holes or defects in
its
surface, that the aluminum reflective layer wouldn't be exposed to air,
thereby
preventing the deterioration of the information on the disc. Is this not
true?

We're talking about CD-R discs here.

The material is polycarbonate, read Lexan-equivalent. It is very tough and
scratch resistant. The risk is to the data layer, which is on top under the
label and reflective surface. The reflective surface is not normally aluminum.
Aluminum is the most corrosion-prone of the materials used and is normally
used
in commercial CDs (not CD-Rs) where it is sandwiched between polycarbonate
discs. CD-Rs use silver, silver combined with gold or 24K gold, gold being the
most corrosion resistant. For archiving, gold is best. For best performance in
the short run on the widest variety of drives, silver is best.

The data is stored in a dye layer between the reflective layer and the
polycarbonate disc. Dyes are subject to patents so there are a variety in use.
Further, dyes used are driven by marketing, so the dye that works in more CD
Drives
is preferred to the dye that is more durable and at least one large
manufacturer says that is the basis for their material decisions.

The risk I have always considered greatest is scratching or scraping the top
layer. It is easy to remove the mirror surface on most discs since the
material does not bind well to the dye. I do not recommend playing a CD-R in
a slot
load type car player. Additionally, I have always considered that dyes are
probably subject to deterioration from sunlight.

The Dutch report that started this discussion is disturbing. They claim they
stored the discs in their original packaging in a cabinet between the tests.
But they don't tell us about the brands used or if they were fresh stock or if
the test equipment is the same equipment used at both ends of the test period
or if it was calibrated the same way. I can't tell from reading it if this is
a valid test of CD-R media or a poor test of test equipment.

We need more answers.

In the mean time, most of the errors I see are to audio CD-Rs intended to be
used with the home Hi-fi. The ones that are troublesome have been recorded
with software that handles buffer underruns with stop and go technology. Nero
is
nice and everyone who uses it likes the idea that they make fewer coffee cup
coasters. But the fact is most audio CD players don't deal with these kinds of
non-continuous recordings gracefully. When burning CD-Rs, I recommend you shut
down all other software, put the anti-virus on pause and let the burner
software have the entire computer power to keep the buffer full. It also helps
greatly to burn from WAV files as compressed files (MP3, etc.) need to be
decompressed and that uses CPU time. Convert them to WAV first.

If it's important, look for real facts on CD-R materials and go to
manufacturer's web sites to see how they are made. Look for durable dyes and
gold.

Don Shenbarger

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Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 19:11:51 -0400
From: "Walden Hughes" <hughes1@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Rhonda Fleming

Hi Everybody,

I am in the process of having Rhonda Fleming as a over at Frank Bresee
studio to record an interview for Yesterday USA.  She is looking for copies
of radio show she work on like Lux Radio Theater ECt.  I have the Screen
Director Playhouse the Great Lover with Bob Hope, and the Bob Hope Christmas
show in 1949.  Is there any other shows out there with Rhonda, and does any
one have a copy of the Lux Radio Theater she did?  Take care,

Walden Hughes

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 19:34:31 -0400
From: hal stone <dualxtwo@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Hastings credits

Fred Berney Posts,

I was watching the Poseidon Adventure the other night and happened to
notice that Bob Hastings name appeared in the credits. (SNIP) How many of you
realized he was in this movie? I wasn't until just now.

I guess I knew. Seeing as how every time I talk to him, he recites ALL his
credits. :)

Hal(Harlan)Stone
Jughead

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 09:17:14 -0400
From: "MICHAEL BIEL" <mbiel@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Re: A Question about Failing CD's

Kenny <Musiciantoo47@[removed]; asked:
I was thinking that as long as the "Plexiglass" material of a cd
remains intact or has no holes or defects in its surface, that the
aluminum reflective layer wouldn't be exposed to air, thereby
preventing the deterioration of the information on the disc.
Is this not true?

Not true.  In fact, you have it exactly opposite.  It is the LABEL SIDE
that is the side that needs to be protected from scratches, dents, holes,
etc.  The reflective surface is right under this thin coating, and it is
this side of the disc that needs to be treated very carefully to avoid
permanent damage.  Scratches on the thicker "reading" side (made of
polycarbonate) can usually be removed without permanent damage.  Not so on
the label side.

On a commercial CD it usually says that with proper care
the disc should last a lifetime.

That is too short a time period.  I have recordings that are several
"lifetimes" old, and would hope that my recordings will outlast me, my
daughter, and other future generations after her.  The record companies
would like it if their records would self-destruct and require frequent
replacement.

Why shouldn't this apply to blank media also,
as long as it isn't abused or exposed to air?

Regular mass-produced CDs have the digital information moulded into the
polycarbonate, which is then coated with the reflective metal, usually
aluminum but sometimes gold or silver.  Recordable CDs work by melting and
deforming the dye layers that are coated onto the blank grooved
polycarbonate.  These dye layers do not hold their shape and variations in
reflectivity as well as would moulded polycarbonate.

I have made Hundreds of homemade CDs in the last 3 years and I
would hate to think that they're gonna be unplayable in just a few years.

We have yet to find ANY recording medium that is absolutely permanent, but
the archival community has been very concerned about digital media which
can fail totally without any warning even if stored properly.  I have been
involved in several of the professional archival organizations, the
Association for Recorded Sound Collections (ARSC) and the International
Association of Sound and Audio-Visual Archives (IASA) for 30 years, and
have been witness to the discussions and arguments over archival media.  We
resisted digital technology for many years because of the totality of the
loss when there is media failure, and the rapid obsolescence of digital
formats.  For many years the only medium that was officially approved was
1/4-inch open-reel magnetic tape, and we all watched in horror as this
medium became compromised by Vinegar Syndrome and Sticky-Shed Syndrome.
BUT, in most cases the recorded sound is recoverable from affected tapes,
whereas digital media failure usually results in immediate total loss of
the recording.

I was there as ARSC and IASA were dragged kicking and screaming into the
digital world about 5 years ago.  These weren't pretty scenes.  But neither
organization has endorsed any specific digital medium as archival.  Any
recommendations on the use of CD-R, DVD-R, R-DAT, etc. are based upon these
media being used only for temporary stop-gap acquisition storage.  Once the
recording is in digital form it would eventually be transferred into
solid-state mass storage devices where it would be maintained as a file
among thousands which would be automatically checked for increasing errors
and automatically migrated onto another mass storage unit should there be
any sign of eventual failure.  The sound recordings would no longer be
artifact-based.  The analog or commercial originals would be maintained for
reference, but the intermediate digital media would not be kept once the
recordings were migrated onto new mass storage units.  Some European
broadcasters and archives are already beginning the transitions, but it is
still mainly in the discussion stage here in the [removed]

This would be enormously expensive for private collectors, but eventually
the costs will decrease.  You would not need to have your collection of
hundreds of CD-Rs, but would have the recordings stored on a remote server
somewhere for a monthly fee or in a smaller unit you could own.
Individual tapes and discs would never again be used.  For the archives and
broadcasters the copyright issues are being worked out, partially because
much of the materials are their own and/or the organizations are branches
of the governments.  Access can still be limited to in-house, but some of
the things you can download from the Library of Congress web site are part
of the pilot programs to test public access to selected files.

There is a down side to this movement.  And that is the archival community
is backing away from forcing manufacturers to continue to develop recording
media with archival lifetimes of 100 to 300 years.  Some manufacturers DO
care, but they are still hoping that their archival customers feed their
recordings into mass storage before the products they are selling fail.

For now, our potential solution is merely this--back-up all your CD-Rs onto
another disc of a different brand.  Because it can be done quickly with no
generational loss, this is a reasonable procedure.

Just remember, when the CD was introduced, Philips advertised it as:
P E R F E C T   S O U N D   F O R E V E R  ! ! !

They lied.

Michael Biel   mbiel@[removed]

--------------------------------
End of [removed] Digest V2003 Issue #332
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