Subject: [removed] Digest V2002 #64
From: "OldRadio Mailing Lists" <[removed]@[removed];
Date: 2/19/2002 7:20 PM
To: <[removed]@[removed];

------------------------------


                            The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                              Volume 2002 : Issue 64
                         A Part of the [removed]!
                                 ISSN: 1533-9289


                                 Today's Topics:

  Thanks! I [removed]                    [ Charlie Summers <charlie@[removed] ]
  Re: Book                              [ Kenneth Clarke <kclarke5@[removed]; ]
  Re: Father Knows Best                 [ stewwright@[removed] ]
  one more Groucho                      [ John Henley <jhenley@[removed] ]
  Chimes-inspired reveries              [ leemunsick@[removed] ]
  Re:15 minute Fibber and Molly         [ Eric J Cooper <ejcooper2002@[removed] ]
  RE: The man of Bronze                 [ "Jeff Bankens" <jeff_bankens@thenew ]
  Newspaper Radio Listings              [ Grbmd@[removed] ]
  Radio System Cues                     [ "Russ Butler" <oldradio@[removed] ]
  Theme Songs                           [ "Russ Butler" <oldradio@[removed] ]
  Forget Loomis! Here's Radio in 1853!  [ GEORGE WAGNER <gwagneroldtimeradio@ ]
  Re: The one, the [removed]!     [ "Rodney w bowcock jr." <rodney-self ]
  Re: Questions                         [ "bygeorge" <bygeorge@[removed]; ]
  Re: Steve Allen show                  [ "tas richardson" <tasrichardson@spr ]
  Howard K. Smith                       [ Jim Widner <jwidner@[removed]; ]

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 16:32:08 -0500
From: Charlie Summers <charlie@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Thanks! I [removed]

Folks;

   A quick "Thank you!" to Tom Heathwood for his kind words about the OTR
Digest in the most recent edition of Heritage Radio Theatre (available on the
web at [removed] ). And it was great to hear our
dearly-missed old friend Lon Clark in the episode of "2000 Plus" that he's
airing this week.

   But I _am_ a little concerned about that mental patient's [removed] he
trying to tell me something?

         Charlie Summers

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 12:13:12 -0500
From: Kenneth Clarke <kclarke5@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Re: Book

          I'm still looking for a book called "Verse By The
Side Of The Road".  Every book store I've checked
out so far lists their inventory by the author's name and
not the title.  Unfortunately, I don't know the author of this
book.  If anyone knows who it is, please contact me off list
at kclarke5@[removed] with this information.

          Also, someone asked me a question regarding one
of the lesser known/lesser reported performers on OTR
Arnold Stang the other day.  As far as I know, he was on the
"Henry Morgan Show" in a second banana capacity.  Sort of
a nerdy character, as I recall.  I remember him performing
on "The Milton Berle Show", "The Eddie Cantor Show",
"Let's Pretend" and "The Rise of the Goldbergs", too.  As far
as movies are concerned, wasn't he also in "The Man With
Golden Arm" with Frank Sinatra, in a supporting role? I think
he wore glasses and a cap with a large bill.  Please correct
me, if I'm wrong.  When asked if he was still alive, I had to
say I wasn't sure.  If so, and anyone has an address, I'd like
to know about it.

          I've heard several differing stories regarding Eddie Cantor.
I'm not sure about the voracity of them though.  For the most
part, the reports I've heard are very good.  His comedic talent,
his penchant for publicly supporting various charities on his
radio program, and ability to hold an audience are well known.
I've also heard that during rehearsals for his show he'd steal
other players lines and assign them to himself  and was quite
arrogant.  Which is closer to the truth?  From what I've actually
heard, he was quite funny and public spirited.

As always,

Kenneth

"Never place a period where God has only put a comma."
---Gracie Allen

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 14:41:35 -0500
From: stewwright@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Re: Father Knows Best

Just heard an episode of the Jack Carson show.
The character of Norma Jean, sounds awfully
similar to Kathy (the youngest daughter) on Father
Knows Best ...

  The actress who played both roles is Norma Jean
Nilsson.  She will be attending the Radio Enthusiasts of
Puget Sound (REPS) Showcase in Seattle June 28-30.

  Here is a brief biographical sketch on Norma Jean that
I wrote for last year's REPS Showcase Program.

Norma Jean Nilsson - Since she comes down from Canada,
Norma Jean adds an international flavor to this, her 8th
Showcase.  Last year she was a recipient of REPS Radio
Appreciation Award.  Her mother was a bit of historian,
because she kept so many clippings and photos from Norma
Jean's days in radio, television, and motion pictures.
On her first radio show, Norma Jean worked with Rhoda
Williams, Lou Merrill, Diana Shore, and Fred McMurray on
Arch Oboler's Free World Theater "Your Day Is Coming."
She had featured roles on Baby Snooks, Blonde, The Jack
Carson Show, and Father Knows Best.  She appeared on 28
times on the prestigious Lux Radio Theatre.  Just a small
sampling of NJ's many shows are:  The Aldrich Family,
Edgar Bergen and Charlie McCarthy Show, Escape, Eternal
Light, Gunsmoke, Honest Harold, Lady Esther's Screen
Guild Players, Screen Director's Playhouse, Stars Over
Hollywood, Suspense, and The World's Greatest Mother.
The only Have Gun, Will Travel script to air twice was
"Stardust" aka "Lola Blackwood."  Both Norma Jean and
fellow Showcase guest Anne Whitfield played the same
role, the niece Laurie, in the different productions of
this episode.  Norma Jean remembers, "When I was about 15
or 16, Jack Webb directed this unbelievable Christmas
show.  The whole show sounded just like Dragnet.  It was
so emotional.  It was the only time on radio that I could
not control my tears.  I don't know if it was the writing
or the directing. The show just seemed to write itself,
which probably meant that Jack Webb was a good director."
Norman Jean mentioned as a child, she was frightened of
directors.  "I remember Arch Oboler terrified me, so he
must have been great."

  For more information on the upcoming Showcase, go to
the REPS Web Site at:
[removed]

  One of the items in this year's REPS Showcase silent
auction will be a specially signed copy of John Dunning's
book "On The Air."


Signing off for now,

Stewart

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 14:46:07 -0500
From: John Henley <jhenley@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: one more Groucho

My offhanded remark the other day about Groucho and
his ad-libs seems to have provoked a few people, who
I guess are non-fans, to respond that, in so many words,
his reputation as an ad-libber is undeserved.

Since much of this argument seems to center around
"You Bet Your Life" and its heavy compliment of "scripted" ad-libs,
I would contend that it's the wrong example.  The fact
that much of YBYL was scripted was, I believe, no secret at the
time, but the information wasn't picked up by most celebrity
writers, who continued with the old "he makes it all up"
line.  The need for the scripted remarx has more to do with
the pressures of tv production than being any reflection on
Groucho's ability.

And while he was pretty much slacking off by the end of YBYL's run,
this fact was pointed out in such a way as to suggest that his later
lackluster performances were somehow typical - which they weren't.

Therefore, I will let him stay on the pedestal he occupies
in my own opinions.

Regarding the panel show mentioned as being "from the sixties or seventies"
in which it was said that Groucho couldn't hold his own with the
other panelists:  If it was really that late, then Groucho was the
oldest member of said group and in poorer health than the others,
so it might be understandable if he didn't participate as much.  His
tv appearances at that stage of his life veered between being fun and
being just depressing, depending upon how he felt that day.

(To be fair, speaking for myself, I no longer have much patience
with writers and fans who still claim to this day that a lot
of the dialogue in the early Marx films is ad-libbed.  Repeated viewings,
and some knowledge of how movies are made, assure that the
ad-lib content of the films is Zero.)

And as I suspect Charlie's tiring of this thread, I'll sign off
on the topic.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 16:35:08 -0500
From: leemunsick@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Chimes-inspired reveries

Eric Cooper commented here on the fact that only NBC in the USA had a
"radio logo" (the famous NBC chimes), but several South American stations
used audible trademarks.

My family vacationed in Florida in the late 1950s.  As was my wont then and
now, I was DXing all over the radio seeking interesting things, certainly
far more than one finds nowadays.  I settled in on a Cuban station which
played good music.  They had a unique chiming bell ID from which I got a
kick.  Nearly a half-century later I do not recall what it was, just that
it was delightful.

There was in the 1960s--may still be--a delightful station in the San
Francisco Bay Area called KABL, with a station ID of the ringing of a Cable
Car bell.  Get it?  [removed] perhaps it was [removed]  station
identification pauses with charming brief descriptions of sailboats darting
about the bay, Fishermen's Wharf, Ghirardelli Square, and other things
around San Fran ([removed] "Frisco!").

Anent the chimes, perhaps older posters and lurkers will pardon me, while
for newcomers I re-tell the story of NBC radio being sold.  In the
negotiations with the proposed new owners, there was discussion about the
use of the famous NBC chimes.  I believe the new people were from Westwood
One, for a time owners of MBS, and now somehow tied in with what used to be
CBS.  Who can keep track?

The RCA representatives assumed that the "new" NBC Radio Network would want
to use those famous NBC chimes.  There was concern about confusion, because
the ongoing NBC Television network also wished to do so.  RCA, of course,
is the company which for years couldn't make up its mind about using the
famous "His Master's Voice" logo with "Li'l Nipper" who has more recently
squired a scion.  And for a time Channel 4 in New York wavered back and
forth on call-letters, alternating WNBC and WRCA.

The representatives of the proposed new owners of NBC Radio said they could
care less about the chimes.  Keep 'em, they said!

But they DID want to have the use of the NBC logo, the strange one with the
sharp-angled "N" and the famous Peacock.  Of course these are strictly
visual--or TELEVISION--trademarks.  The peacock even more so, being the
indicator for COLOR television.

Amazingly, the RCA people agreed to let them use it!  So much for worry
about consumer identification confusion.  Now, when you see a picture with
a newsman or speaker's stand displaying a microphone with the NBC color
logo on it, this could be someone from NBC TELEVISION nee GE nee RCA nee GE
(that's another whole story).....[removed] could be someone from NBC RADIO
which is a totally separate, unconnected company.

But these radio folk did NOT want to use the NBC RADIO chimes!   Go figure
corporate logic, if any.  Mr. Spock would give up!

And to which of these no longer existing radio products did you listen in
on all those great old programs?  Admiral, Crosley, Emerson, Fada,
Packard-Bell, Philco, Radiola, Silvertone, Sparton, Stewart-Warner,
Stromberg-Carlson, Wilcox-Gay, even Atwater-Kent?

Brings to mind confusing, surprising things like Post Cereals made by
Kraft.  Kleenex Tissues and  Scott Paper products from
Kimberly-Clark.  DaimlerChryslerJeeps (my "Spelchek" ironically suggested
this name perhaps should be "disenchanted").

Remember the running Jack Benny gag about Merrill Lynch Pierce Fenner and
Beane.  The latter seemingly changed his name to Smith, only to join Pierce
and Fenner in ignominy, along with Batten, Barton, Durstine and
Osborne.  Where are they now?

How long before we see Ford Chevrolets?  Or GM Mercurys, a possibility
since Ford desires to let the Mercury line die.   This is the company which
in those nifty fifties desperately wanted to have four lines, the same as
the then Chrysler roster, to compete with General Motors' five
brands.  This panicky undertaking was so badly managed that it practically
wrecked Ford:  the birth (and death) of the Edsel.  We're informed of the
bad condition Ford is in [removed] knows what will happen next?  Perhaps
young Mr. Ford will change his name to Olds, or even Duryea, to scoop his
illustrious ancestor.

It boggles!   As I said, go figure.  And hang in [removed]'s
undoubtedly worse still to come!

On that joyous note, all the best to you all!  Lee Munsick

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 16:35:10 -0500
From: Eric J Cooper <ejcooper2002@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Re:15 minute Fibber and Molly

David in Memphis has inquired:
I have been listening to some of the 15-minute episodes of Fibber McGee
& Molly from 1953.  What prompted the change in format?  Was their
popularity waning?  Did they loose their sponsor?  What was the time
slot of the quarter-hour programs?

Al Girard will probably be in a better position to answer this question,
but as an FMG fan, I will take a stab at it. It was getting tough by 1953
for even the big stars and the big shows of radio to find ONE full half
hour sponsor. The Tuesday night adventures with the McGee's had slipped
from about a 16 rating in 1950 to about a 5 rating in 1953 (Niesen
figures). Television competition in the fall of 1953 in the Tuesday night
9:30pm slot fomerly inhabited by Fibber and Molly included SUSPENSE,
ARMSTRONG CIRCLE THEATRE and the US STEEL HOUR, all big shows.

 So as television was growing across the country, radio audiences were
dwindling (by the fall of '53, all major cities had one or more TV
stations broadcasting full time). The radio networks were trying to
experiment with new formats to retain what audiences they had left. Bob
Hope also had a 15 minute daily daytime radio show during this period as
well. The 15 minute format, while not allowing for orchestral
accompaniment, singers or a studio audience, did allow for participating
sponsorship (so that more than one sponsor could pay the bills--Tums and
PaperMate pens in the case of the McGees). When you look at it another
way, 15 minutes 5 days a week amounts to 1 hour and 15 minutes per week
or 45 more minutes per week than Fibber and Molly had before that point.

Another factor was Marian Jordan's slowly deterioratiing health. Doing a
daily 15 minute pre-recorded show in a quiet studio with no audience must
have certainly been easier than the full fledged comedy-variety program
they had been doing.

The time slot was generally 10:00 to 10:15pm Monday through Friday,
possibly different in the different time zones

Eric Cooper

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 16:35:24 -0500
From: "Jeff Bankens" <jeff_bankens@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: RE: The man of Bronze

Mr. Tolin,

Thank you very much for the Doc Savage info!  You are truly a gentleman, and
a scholar!

Jeff Bankens

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 16:35:57 -0500
From: Grbmd@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Newspaper Radio Listings

Jim Cox wrote:

 He mentioned the newspaper schedules of radio programs that were
 often squeezed into small spaces.  I recall that The Charlotte Observer
 and The Charlotte News abbreviated those listings, fitting them into tiny
 rectangular boxes for every hour of the day for each station.  Thus, on a
 weekday, they'd alter "Arthur Godfrey Time" to just "Arthur Godfrey,"
 "Art Linkletter's House Party" to "House Party" and drop the "This Is"
 before "Nora Drake" and "The" before "Brighter Day."

At least in the old days the papers itemized the list of programs, however
abbreviated they might have been.

Nowadays the Baltimore Sun, for instance, occasionally prints a list of the
AM and FM stations and summarizes the kind of programming for each in a box
headed "Radio Dial."  For instance, in a recent box:

WCAO    600   Gospel music.
WCBM    680   News, talk, information, business, sports.
............
WAMD    970   Oldies rock, adult contemporary.
...........
WWLG   1360  American pop standards.
...........

(Incidentally the last example is the best Baltimore station I've found for
music from the Thirties through the Fifties.)

How about the papers from other cities?  Do any of your papers still list
radio stations program by program?

Spence

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 16:39:16 -0500
From: "Russ Butler" <oldradio@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Radio System Cues

Eric Cooper asked why no other network except NBC used a musical or network
cue:  CBC in
Canada, of course, has sounders as system cues and many of the European
broadcasters also have identifiable, distinguishable audio signatures.

I've always been impressed with the private stations(independent) both
English and French broadcasters in Canada who have major production ID's and
audio intros to news, programming segments, etc. as compared to just station
jingles and drop in sfx, tags and music bits on the USA stations.

A great station ID production is radio quality and the slogans or "names"
(The Hawk, The River, 95-Triple X, D-99, The Buzz, et al) is not "real
radio."  Terrific production jingles like KSFO's "Sound of the City" with
the Johnny Mann Singers, and, the original WNEW's "Eleven Three-Oh" musical
bumpers and ID's with jazz and vocals are "real radio."  Even "77 WABC"
makes you tingle when you hear the production.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 17:06:17 -0500
From: "Russ Butler" <oldradio@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Theme Songs

The recent posts on this list about OTR themes
prompts a recollection of some other radio program musical signatures:
"Jumpin' With Symphony Sid" by George Shearing for Symphony Sid Torin on WJZ
in NYC (and elsewhere); "Jack,
The Bellboy" for the Detroit jazz dj;  "Robin's Nest" for NYC jazz dj Fred
Robbins; "The Milkman's Matinee" by Les Brown for the legendary WNEW all
night show; "The Make Believe Ballroom" with
Martin Block on WNEW in NYC (and elsewhere);  the song, "Moonglow" for Dick
Martin's midnight jazz show, "Moonglow With Martin" on WWL in New Orleans;
"Midnight Blue" introduced Norm Nathan on Boston stations; and of course,
"That's All" for the all night "Music Til Dawn"  programs on CBS stations
for American Airlines.  Any others come to mind?  Who had custom-made theme
songs?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 18:22:15 -0500
From: GEORGE WAGNER <gwagneroldtimeradio@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Forget Loomis! Here's Radio in 1853!!

     I found the following 1913 newsclipping while
perusing an old scrapbook just this afternoon:

     "WIRELESS SIXTY YEARS AGO -

     "James Bowman Lindsay, a Scotchman [sic], began
experimenting with electricity in 1820. In a few years
he produced a 'constant stream of light,' which was
the admiration of scientists. Then in 1853 he invented
a system of wireless telegraphy, regarding which a
Dundee paper of April 12, 1853, said:

     "'The experiment removes all doubt of the
practicability of Mr. Lindsay's invention; and there
is every reason to think  that it will soon connect
continent with continent, and island with island, in
one unbroken line of communication.'"

     Lindsay's most famous lectures were a series
under the general title of "Telegraphing without
Wires." He was also a polyglot's polyglot, familiar
with at least 50 languages.

     Want to do some more research on this fellow, of
course, but thought this bit was well worth passing
on.

     George Wagner
     GWAGNEROLDTIMERADIO@[removed]

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 18:22:51 -0500
From: "Rodney w bowcock jr." <rodney-selfhelpbikeco@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Re: The one, the [removed]!

Some heavy-handed backstage
manipulations saw that the irascible Groucho routinely delivered the
laughs, even when he couldn't think of any guffaws himself.  Almost
everything he said, in fact, was provided by somebody else.  You didn't
think he was staring at the stars when you saw him on TV rubbing his
bushy eyebrows and gazing heavenward, did you?

Actually, I never gave that much thought.  I knew the show was heavily
edited, but yeah, I always did think Groucho came up with all of that
stuff on his own.  Oh, well.  Chalk it up to the blinded eyes of youth.

rodney.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 20:22:12 -0500
From: "bygeorge" <bygeorge@[removed];
To: OldRadio Mailing Lists <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Re: Questions

HELLO, ALL!
I HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO CLEARLY RECEIVE MY EMAIL LATELY AND I HAVE FOUND
 GAPS IN MY ITEMS FROM THIS AND OTHER NEWGROUPS. SO FORGIVE FOR ASKING
THESE QUESTIONS?
1) WHAT IS THE WEBSITE FOR THE CINCINNATI CONVENTION THIS COMING APRIL?
2) WHERE CAN I OBTAIN A COPY OF THE NEW BOOK ABOUT THE GREAT
GILDERSLEEVE?
THANKS, ALL!
RANDY STORY
WEST PLAINS, MO
HOME OF THE 2002 NATIONAL AUDIO THEATRE FESTIVAL IN MAY!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 21:13:27 -0500
From: "tas richardson" <tasrichardson@[removed];
To: "Oldtime Radio" <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Re: Steve Allen show

I am sure I have the complete program of Steve Allen's radio show from KNX
with Al Jolson as a guest.   It's on a cassette, and my cassette collection
is still uncatalogued.

Now in which suitcase is [removed]

[removed] from back surgery in Alberta.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 21:14:03 -0500
From: Jim Widner <jwidner@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Howard K. Smith

He wrote several books includinga bestseller, "The Last Train From Berlin"
in 1942 describing Hitler's rise to power and his own experiences as the
last American news correspondent to leave Berlin after WWII was declared.

There was also his book called "Events Leading Up to My Death" published in
1996 in which he describes his being the selected radio network reporter to
travel to Berlin upon its surrender and report on the surrender proceedings.

Jim Widner
jwidner@[removed]

--------------------------------
End of [removed] Digest V2002 Issue #64
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