Subject: [removed] Digest V2004 #88
From: <[removed]@[removed]>
Date: 3/10/2004 5:39 PM
To: <[removed]@[removed];

------------------------------


                            The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                              Volume 2004 : Issue 88
                         A Part of the [removed]!
                                 ISSN: 1533-9289


                                 Today's Topics:

  Pearl Harbor/CBS                      [ Jim Widner <jwidner@[removed]; ]
  Bob and Ray. And Tom.                 [ "Dan T Gillespie" <GillespieDT@mail ]
  Real Sound Effects Man                [ "Brian Johnson" <chyronop@sbcglobal ]
  Re: more virgil reimer                [ "Brian L Bedsworth" <az2pa@[removed]; ]
  SFX lessons                           [ "A. Joseph Ross" <lawyer@attorneyro ]
  #OldRadio IRC Chat this Thursday Nig  [ charlie@[removed] ]
  3-10 births/deaths                    [ Ron Sayles <bogusotr@[removed]; ]
  re: G. Washington Coffee              [ Mr Dan <teac35@[removed]; ]
  Lone Ranger Creed?                    [ "joe@[removed]" <sergei01@earthli ]
  Re: SFX lessons & "King for a Day"    [ "Michael J. Hayde" <michaelhayde@ea ]
  New "Old Time Radio" Musical          [ jameshburns@[removed] (Jim Burns) ]
  ed (lowe case) carr                   [ Dick Judge <dickjudge@[removed]; ]
  Converting CDs to MP3s                [ Dick Judge <dickjudge@[removed]; ]
  Morse Code                            [ "Bill Orr" <billorr6@[removed]; ]
  Benny & Burns - Television Pioneers?  [ seandd@[removed] ]

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 22:55:04 -0500
From: Jim Widner <jwidner@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Pearl Harbor/CBS

Chris continues to question the clips at a particular web site regarding
the Pearl Harbor CBS broadcast of the Pearl Harbor news.  He says:

The John Daly "east coast" version contains the precise wording,
vocal inflection, and
misprouncing of the word "Oahu" as the 1948 "I Can Hear It Now"
[removed] has rather
clearly been doctored.

The 1948 "I Hear It Now" phony label is in reference to the it being a
bulletin interrupting some program (historically thought to be the New York
Philharmonic). The "We interrupt this program to bring you a special news
[removed]" portion is actually a section of audio from the announcement
of the death of FDR.  The rest "...the Japanese  have [removed]" is the
actual Daly statement. He did in fact mis-pronounce Oahu as "oh ha oo"
instead of "oh a hoo." The clip opens with the opening of the World Today -
followed by the announcement to "go ahead New York." This cues Daly to
normally begin the broadcast, but instead he read the bulletin first before
cutting to Albert Warner.

I am not sure where Chris thinks this is a deception - only that doctored
attempt on the 1948 record with the dubbed interruption is fake. A number
of former CBS news people have since admitted as much and even Robert
Trout, before his death, mentioned how it really happened also mentioning
the fake.

Chris also mentions:

And there seems little reason for separate east coast/west coast
feeds if the program
sponsor was the same, as in both clips.

This I agree with. But the web site does not refer to east coast feeds and
west coast feeds. But rather  states

         "The airing of news bulletins normally called for the CBS East
Coast network to stall thirty
          seconds in order for the West Coast affiliates to plug their
sponsor."

Yet, as Chris points out, the clip begins with the mention of "Golden Eagle
Gasoline."  Now, I don't know if Golden Eagle was available in the west,
but from what the web site implies, there was a different sponsor. What
does seem plausible to me is the 15 - 30 second delay, however. If as the
web site states:

         "However, in the ensuing chaos of the morning's events, the East
Coast launched into
          the initial flash bulletin immediately, leaving stations such as
KIRO in Seattle to jump
          in frantically."

there was a surprise by the west coast expecting time to introduce their
sponsor, the time needed to try to quickly jump into the broadcast could
account for the delay. Normally, they would have been informed, but
remember, the news was just now breaking and there was indeed chaos.

But I still stand by my belief that the clip of the opening of World News
Today with John Daly (which comes from my own web site - not the one
mentioned) is indeed genuine - just not complete.
I do have also the complete broadcast minus that opening. Mine begins about
3 minutes in with Albert Warner. I am not sure about the time frames, but
If the program began at 2:30:05, which is possibly not likely given the
chaos that was occurring within the news room. (Even Trout confirmed this
as happening with less than two minutes before broadcast.) It probably went
on closer to the 2:31 Chris mentions. I have also seen some confirmation of
that time in Ed Bliss' book.

Chris concludes:

Finally, one clip has Albert Warner starting at 2:30:30, which
would (I think, somebody
check me on this) put the 2nd "bombing of Manila" bulletin on the
air before it actually came in!

I also agree with this. The clip has the opening of the World Today as
stated above previously with sponsor, then a 15 SECOND delay followed by
Albert Warner. This is wrong. Warner was brought in at approximately 2:33
PM. At about 2:38:41 he interrupts himself to mention that word has
come  from "President's office that a second air attack has been reported
on Army and Navy bases in Manila."  This makes the time frame more correct
as to actual historic facts.

I agree that there are some issues around some of the material thanks to
the Murrow/Friendly attempt to market radio broadcast journalism. However,
I disagree with taking it all with a grain of salt. I think it is ok to be
skeptical, but it shouldn't interfere with trying to get at the truth by
piecing what happened together. (and I am not talking about "creative
editing" :>  )

Jim Widner
jwidner@[removed]

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 22:52:26 -0500
From: "Dan T Gillespie" <GillespieDT@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Bob and Ray. And Tom.

Several correspondents have posted messages concerning the two-part article
in SPERDVAC's RadioGram about Tom Koch's writing for Bob and Ray.  I'm the
author of that article, and of a somewhat more detailed book/booklet
entitled "Bob and Ray. And Tom." which will be coming out soon from
[removed] (it's at their printers right now).  I'd like to make a
few comments to those of you who are fans of Bob and Ray.  By the way, I'm
one myself.  And like thousands of others, I too feel that I MUST be among
the "top ten"!

There's no question that Tom Koch wrote a whole lot of stuff for Bob and
Ray, and hence that Bob and Ray did not make up all of their stuff
themselves.  This will come as a shock to many B&R fans.  It certainly
surprised me.  I think some of us may even have talked ourselves into
believing that Bob and Ray always improvised everything in real time - in
which case kudos to their amazingly nimble sound-effects person and
organist!

But it's also true that Tom Koch did not write ALL of Bob and Ray's output,
or for that matter even most of it.  And it's true that Bob and Ray did
improvise SOME of their material; they just didn't do that all the time.
Another thing to keep in mind is that Bob and Ray brought a lot more to the
table than script plots and dialogue lines:  They were, first and foremost,
consummate actors.  We fans tended to lose sight of that because they were
so darn good at it.  Remember how you initially marveled at the way they
could voice so many different characters so convincingly?   As time went on,
though, we just took that ability for granted.  Finally, there is the fact
that most non-stars in the radio business back then were more concerned with
getting a paycheck than credits; they were mainly focused on staying
employed, and the best way to do that was to do your job well enough to keep
the show on the air.  Even for Bob and Ray that wasn't always easy.  The
sole mission of radio comedians back then was to make the listening audience
laugh, and telling the audience who wrote the jokes just didn't do that.
(How many times do you recall Bob Hope telling his audience who wrote his
jokes?)  I'm not saying that's the way it should have been.  But that's the
way it was.

In any case, many of you may now be debating whether you should remove Bob
Elliott and Ray Goulding from your list of heroes.  For what it's worth, I
didn't.  And for me it was an easy call.  What I did do, though, was add Tom
Koch to my list.  Of course, you will have to make up your own mind about
this.  But I urge you not to do that until you have given my little book a
careful and thoughtful read.  It's only 57 pages long, so not much of your
time is at stake - and I really think I did a better job on this matter in
the book than in the RadioGram article.

Is this just a come-on to get you to buy my book?  I don't think so, but
then I would say that, wouldn't I?  I guess it comes down to whether or not
you feel like taking a $12 gamble.

- Dan Gillespie

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 22:55:45 -0500
From: "Brian Johnson" <chyronop@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Real Sound Effects Man

Mark Kinsler asks:

You mean that there really wasn't a sound-effects man
named Virgil Reimer?

I believe there was. The King's Men, Ken Darby's quartet on Fibber McGee and
Molly, sang an original song on the show called "The Sound Effects Man."
They performed it several times and at the end of the song paid homage to
whatever NBC sound effects man was working the show that night and I
remember them using Virgil's name at least once in the 1942-43 season.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 00:44:43 -0500
From: "Brian L Bedsworth" <az2pa@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Re: more virgil reimer

"Mark Kinsler" <kinsler33@[removed]; suggested that:

My guess is that some contract clause prevented anyone who wasn't an
official actor from speaking over a microphone, and that's why actors played
the sound men's parts.

Unlikely. In the case of the Benny program, for instance, members of Jack's
writing team often made appearances on the show (playing bit parts rather
than themselves, usually, although there were some recurring parts for these
fellows at times, as well). Also, during the war, servicemen sometimes found
themselves called out of the audience to perform routines. On other occasions
during this period (when the regular Sunday show often toured the US and
Canada), prominent local personages (both in business and in politics) were
brought before the mikes fairly routinely.

More likely is that it was easier to write gags for known talents like Nelson
and Blanc; if there's nothing about the person in question that absolutely
requires that the person on the air actually =be= that person, why not take
the easy route? Especially when it meant a better show going out over the
air. (If you've ever heard, for instance, the show with Waukegan's then-Mayor
Talcott or the one with the actual manager of a Palm Springs theatre where
the troupe performed, you'll have a better appreciation for the difference a
top-flight professional can make in those situations.)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 11:06:10 -0500
From: "A. Joseph Ross" <lawyer@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  SFX lessons

Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 18:37:05 -0500
From: JackBenny@[removed]

Do not do this effect if you're actually wearing the zippper, lest you
create a "King for a Day" moment.

What's a "King for a Day" moment?

--
A. Joseph Ross, [removed]                           [removed]
 15 Court Square, Suite 210                 lawyer@[removed]
Boston, MA 02108-2503           	         [removed]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 11:45:00 -0500
From: charlie@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  #OldRadio IRC Chat this Thursday Night!

A weekly [removed]

For the best in OTR Chat, join IRC (Internet Relay Chat), StarLink-IRC
Network, the channel name is #OldRadio.  We meet Thursdays at 8 PM Eastern
and go on, and on! The oldest OTR Chat Channel, it has been in existence
over six years, same time, same channel! Started by Lois Culver, widow
of actor Howard Culver, this is the place to be on Thursday night for
real-time OTR talk!

Our "regulars" include OTR actors, soundmen, collectors, listeners, and
others interested in enjoying OTR from points all over the world. Discussions
range from favorite shows to almost anything else under the sun (sometimes
it's hard for us to stay on-topic)...but even if it isn't always focused,
it's always a good time!

For more info, contact charlie@[removed]. We hope to see you there, this
week and every week!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 11:47:56 -0500
From: Ron Sayles <bogusotr@[removed];
To: Olde Tyme Radio List <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  3-10 births/deaths

March 10th births

03-10-1888 - Barry Fitzgerald - Dublin, Ireland - d. 1-4-1961
actor: Bernard Fitz "His Honor, the Barber"
03-10-1898 - Cy Kendall - St. Louis, MO - d. 7-22-1953
actor: Captain Tracy "Tarzan"; Fred Thompson "One Man's Family"; "Escape"
03-10-1900 - Peter DeRose - NYC - d. 4-23-1953
pianist, singer: "Sweethearts of the Air"
03-10-1903 - Leon Bismark "Bix" Beiderbecke - Davenport, IA - d. 8-7-1931
jazz musician: "Band Remotes"
03-10-1905 - Richard Haydn - London, England - d. 4-25-1985
actor: Professor Carp "Edgar Bergen/Charlie McCarthy Show"
03-10-1911 - Warner Anderson - Brooklyn, NY - d. 8-26-1976
actor: Patrick Ryan "Terry and the Pirates"
03-10-1918 - Pamela Mason - Westgate-on-Sea, Kent, England - d. 6-29-1996
actress: "James Mason and Pamela Mason Show"
03-10-1919 - Marion Hutton - Battle Creek, MI - d. 1-10-1987
singer: (Sister of Betty), (Glenn Miller Orchestra) "Moonlight Serenade"
03-10-1921 - Paul Coates - NYC
writer: "Dragnet"

March 10th deaths

01-02-1904 - Bernardine Flynn - Madison, WI - d. 3-10-1977
actress: Sade Gook "Vic and Sade"; Mathilda Barker "Welcome Valley"
01-15-1913 - Lloyd Bridges - San Leandro, CA - d. 3-10-1998
actor: "Suspense"; "Arch Oboler's Plays"
03-29-1906 - E. Power Biggs - West Cliff, England - d. 3-10-1977
organist: "Organ Program"
06-20-1904 - Matt Crowley - d. 3-10-1983
actor: Mark Trail "Mark Trail"; Buck Rogers "Buck Rogers"
06-23-1876 - Irvin S. Cobb - Paducah, NY - d. 3-10-1944
humorist: "Gulf Show"; "Paducah Plantation"
08-03-1907 - Irene Tedrow - Denver, CO - d. 3-10-1995
actress: Janet Archer "Meet Corliss Archer"; Dorothy Regent "Chandu, the
Magacian"
10-25-1901 - Walter T. Butterworth - Wallingford, PA - d. 3-10-1962
emcee: "Molle Merry Minstrels"; "Vox Pox"; "Take a Card"
--
Ron Sayles
Milwaukee, Wisconsin

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 11:48:05 -0500
From: Mr Dan <teac35@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  re: G. Washington Coffee
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain

Thanks for that interesting and informative piece you wrote. I enjoyed it

  *** This message was altered by the server, and may not appear ***
  ***                  as the sender intended.                   ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 11:48:53 -0500
From: "joe@[removed]" <sergei01@[removed];
To: "OTR List" <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Lone Ranger Creed?

On another list someone has posted the below "Lone Ranger Creed" which I
must honestly admit I have never encountered in either radio or TV shows. Is
this from the comix? Is some owlhoot pullin' my leg?

 If this is authentic, where did this come from?

 ======
The Lone Ranger Creed

"I believe that to have a friend,
a man must be one.

That all men are created equal
and that everyone has within himself
the power to make this a better world.

That God put the firewood there
but that every man
must gather and light it himself.

In being prepared
physically, mentally, and morally
to fight when necessary
for that which is right.

That a man should make the most
of what equipment he has.

That 'This government,
of the people, by the people
and for the people'
shall live always.

That men should live by
the rule of what is best
for the greatest number.

That sooner or [removed]
[removed]
we must settle with the world
and make payment for what we have taken.

That all things change but truth,
and that truth alone, lives on forever.

In my Creator, my country, my fellow man."
 ===========================
Joe Salerno

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:42:31 -0500
From: "Michael J. Hayde" <michaelhayde@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Re: SFX lessons & "King for a Day"

Laura Leff wrote, regarding a sound effect calling for a zipper:

Do not do this effect if you're actually wearing the zippper, lest you create
a "King for a Day" moment.

By coincidence, I happened to hear that sketch for the first time this
morning.  (For those unaware, it's a classic Fred Allen-Jack Benny encounter,
where Fred is the quizmaster for "King for a Day" and Jack passes himself off
as a contestant.)  The studio audience reaction to Jack having his pants
removed was such that I guessed it actually happened.  Thanks, Laura, for
confirming it even before I asked!

Michael

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 17:16:33 -0500
From: jameshburns@[removed] (Jim Burns)
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  New "Old Time Radio" Musical

There's an amazing theatre in New York, devoted to musicals, the York
Theatre Company.

(Actually, that's where the MAX MORATH RAGTIME show we mentioned a few
weeks back, is still [removed])

The whole "mission" of the York is that they're pledged to preserving
the best of our American musical theatre heritage, and also INTRODUCING
new works.

Remarkably, every year, the York presents over FORTY "readings" of new
musicals.

For FREE.

Often, these are learlyversions of a show, but, still, complete plays,
with a full story, and score--often, after years of writing, and
development.

Amazingly, the casts featured are composed of first-rate Broadway
talent.  You walk in for a reading/show, and more often than not,
leading the cast is some gal or guy you just saw starring in a show a
few weeks ago.

(Broadway actors will often rehearse these readings while appearing in
another show.  Then, the performance, is on an off night.)

Because the acoustics at the York are so great, you get to hear that
rare miracle in today's musical theatre:  unmiked, unamplified
performances.

Oh, yeah.

And did I mention?

It's free!

:-)

The full reading schedule is available at:

[removed]

But, the reason I bring this all up now, is one of thei York's "shows"
next month, on April 12, has an OTR theme.

Here's the info:

WICKED CITY BLUES
Monday, April 12, 2004 • 7:30 PM
Book, Music and Lyrics by Norman Thalheimer
Story by Cornell Christianson

It's 1947 and a radio show detective finds himself in over his head in a
dark city where nothing is what it seems to be. The two worlds of film
noir and live radio collide onstage in a new musical that combines jazz,
comedy and suspense.

R. S. V. P. THE YORK THEATRE COMPANY:

Email Jeff Landsman:  Jlandsman@[removed]

(please remember to mention your name, phone number, the show you want
to see, and the number of tickets you'd like)

or call 212-935-5824, ext. 24.

The York Theatre is at St. Peter's in Citigroup Center (619 Lexington
Avenue at 54th Street).

For more information about the reading series,, and the York Theatre
Company, visit [removed].

Best, Jim Burns

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 19:30:53 -0500
From: Dick Judge <dickjudge@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  ed (lowe case) carr

ed:

i guess if fred allen taught you all you know about using a typewriter, then
it must be ok for you to type that way.

ME, I WAS TAUGHT THE OTHER WAY. THERE WAS NO LOWER CASE.

DiCk JuDgE

MEMORIES OF RADIO/Dick Judge

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 19:31:04 -0500
From: Dick Judge <dickjudge@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Converting CDs to MP3s

I was and am overwhelmed by the number of responses I have had regarding the
conversion of Audio CDs to MP3s. There have been at least 15 off-line emails.

I just wanted to publicly thank all that took their time to offer their
thoughts and suggestions. Thank you, thank you - ladies and gentlemen.

dickjudge
MEMORIES OF RADIO/Dick Judge

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 19:31:46 -0500
From: "Bill Orr" <billorr6@[removed];
To: "OTR List" <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Morse Code

In his posting to Digest # 87 (G. Washington Coffee), Lee Munsick wrote:
"Alfred Vail, by the way, was the uncredited developer of what has been
known as the "Morse Code"".

With all due respect, the sentence is somewhat misleading as there is no
doubt that SFB Morse did, in fact, "develop" the code and some rudimentary
equipment on which to demonstrate the code.

It is true, however, that Vail did contribute substantial amounts of his
parent's money to further the development.  He also suggested and designed
improvements to enable SFB Morse to continue his research and
demonstrations.

Vail's big mistake was that he entered into a legal agreement with Morse
which stipulated that he (Vail) be assigned a one-quarter share of the
telegraph patent. The agreement further provided that anything Vail designed
or improved upon related to the telegraph was to be turned over to Morse,
whose name alone would appear on the patent papers.

Therefore, there is much conjecture among telegraph historians as to exactly
how much credit should be given to Vail.  There is no doubt that Vail's
help, both financial and technical, was of tremendous aid to the development
of the telegraph, but the [removed] way. Morse came up with that idea
aboard ship on a return trip from Europe before he and Vail ever met.

Respectfully,

Bill Orr
Tulsa, OK

Member - Morse Telegraph Club

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 19:32:39 -0500
From: seandd@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Benny & Burns - Television Pioneers?

This article on Howard Stern mentions that Jack Benny and George Burns
boosted early television when they agreed to join it in the same way that
Stern might if he moves his show to Satelite radio.

The comparison seems frivilous to me on many many levels but I pass along for
general comment.

Coverage from The Washington Times follows.

Sean Dougherty
SeanDD@[removed]

STERN flap could benefit satellite radio
Washington Times - Washington,DC,USA
... The move would be similar to those by George Burns and Jack Benny,
two radio stars who helped usher in a new era in entertainment in the
1940s when they moved ...
<[removed];

--------------------------------
End of [removed] Digest V2004 Issue #88
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