Subject: [removed] Digest V2002 #143
From: "OldRadio Mailing Lists" <[removed]@[removed];
Date: 4/15/2002 10:21 AM
To: <[removed]@[removed];

------------------------------


                            The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                              Volume 2002 : Issue 143
                         A Part of the [removed]!
                                 ISSN: 1533-9289


                                 Today's Topics:

  Eddie Cantor SHows From the 1930s     [ Tsunami1000@[removed] ]
  Mr. Harry Bartell                     [ Oliver <joliver@[removed]; ]
  Re: Blondie on TV                     [ "Michael Hayde" <mmeajv@[removed]; ]
  Today in radio history                [ Joe Mackey <joemackey108@[removed] ]
  OTR Book                              [ Ron Sayles <bogusotr@[removed]; ]
  Re: conventions                       [ HRRMIKES@[removed] ]
  Re: Sinatra on the Music Hall         [ Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed] ]
  Long Ago and Far Away                 [ leemunsick@[removed] ]
  Re: Of Idols and Lions                [ Ga6string@[removed] ]
  Quiet, [removed]                      [ "Ted Kneebone" <tkneebone1@[removed] ]
  Just a thought                        [ "George Coppen*" <gacoppen@[removed] ]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 10:50:17 -0400
From: Tsunami1000@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Eddie Cantor SHows From the 1930s
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain

Hello everyone!  I am trying to find and acquire Eddie Cantor shows, and I
want particularly to acquire those from the 1930s but I will eagerly snap up
the later stuff, too.  I find Cantor's humor and family-styled humor to be as
refreshing now as it was back then, and he was a superb singer.  Does anyone
know where I may find his shows?  Those I have seen are few and far between.
I collect on standard audio CD and cassette, so I am willing to work out
trades or outright purchase!  Hopefully this inquiry will produce some guides
and leads.  By the by, am I correct in adjudging that not many of his '30's
shows exist?  Thanks all, JIM F

  *** This message was altered by the server, and may not appear ***
  ***                  as the sender intended.                   ***

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Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 10:56:39 -0400
From: Oliver <joliver@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Mr. Harry Bartell

I occasionally see a post from Mr. Harry Bartell and it always reminds me
how very lucky we are to have someone of his magnitude in otr to interact
with us on this list.  He is an otr veteran of the first order who was at
the core of the business for many decades and turned out wonderful work.  I
am so grateful he is willing to be apart of this group.

I first heard Harry Bartell around 1972 while I was working as an announcer
at CBS affiliate WREC in Memphis.  The network ran a daily program called
"Dear Abby."  The first time I heard the show I took notice of this
wonderful voice that hosted the show and fed the questions to Abby.  I
thought, "that guy is a terrific announcer. What a beautiful voice. I
wonder if he's done much other work in radio!"  About a week later I heard
on network closed circuit a feed of an old Suspense show (they were trying
to revive it in syndication, I guess); the show was called "Frightened
City-starring Mr. Harry Bartell-"  That show let me know that Bartell was a
little more than just an announcer.  He played the lead in this show.

I, like countless others of you on this list, rarely have a day pass that I
don't hear the magnificent voice of Harry Bartell.  You can't hear otr
every day and not be treated to the wide-ranging and wonderful work of this
prolific radio veteran.
What a legacy.  Mr. Bartell, I salute you.

Joe Oliver
Professor of Communication

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 10:57:28 -0400
From: "Michael Hayde" <mmeajv@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Re: Blondie on TV

A. Joseph Ross writes:
The question isn't whether (Arthur) Lake died before the (1957 "Blondie")
TV series, but whether (Penny) Singleton did.

Certainly not: she was, after all, the voice of Jane Jetson during the
1960's and beyond.  In fact, isn't she still alive?  (That question is
probably answered elsewhere in this digest!)

My guess is she wasn't in need of whatever meagre salary was being offered
for the series, and turned it down.

Michael

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 10:57:40 -0400
From: Joe Mackey <joemackey108@[removed];
To: otr-net <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Today in radio history

  I am a bit late with some of these.  I've been having connection
problems since last week.  Sorry for the delay.

  From Those Were The Days --

  April 12, 1932 - The thrill-comedy, "Joe Palooka", which would also be
a popular comic strip, made its debut on CBS.
  April 14, 1922 - Soprano Jeanette Vreeland sang the first radio
concert from an airplane as she flew over New York City.
  Joe

--
Visit my home page:
[removed]~[removed]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 10:58:07 -0400
From: Ron Sayles <bogusotr@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  OTR Book

I see that Kevin Michaels has me contributing to a new book coming out about
OTR. Don't get me wrong, I would love to contribute, but the talent is just
not there. I have learned a long time ago to live within one's limitations.
Simply put, I cannot write, at least so it would be of interest to other
people. I dabble in an article or two, but that is not writing, that is
research. What you are talking about here is creative writing which is an
entirely different kettle of fish. Maybe someday I will get out of my shell
and give it a try, but for now I will leave the creative writing to the people
who have creative minds.
--
Ron Sayles

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 10:58:44 -0400
From: HRRMIKES@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Re: conventions

To Don
who asked about a list of coventions.  Don't have the exact dates for all the
others, but in Seattle The Radio Enthusiasts of Puget Sound (REPS) will host
our Radio Showcase X on June 28-30.  Approximately 25 performers will be
re-creating 7 programs and there will be panels of all sorts plus a vendor
room.   Details are added to our website at  [removed]

If you or anyone else would like more detail just let me know.
Mike Sprague

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 10:59:38 -0400
From: Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Re: Sinatra on the Music Hall

Richard Carpenter wrote:

 One thing I did notice, though: When Frank Sinatra
was the guest star, he apparently wasn't in the studio
with A&A. A careful listening leads me to believe that
Sinatra had recorded his comments, questions, and
answers before the show and they were played at the
appropriate time to make it sound as if he were
interacting with Amos, Andy and the Kingfish.

This was precisely how it was done -- the Music Hall was recorded in
segments and then spliced together piece by piece for broadcast. It was
possible to do a week's worth of programs in an afternoon by this method,
and when guests were featured they were often pre-taped, sort of like the
"Your Local DJ Interviews Joe Celebrity" open-ended interview records
that many of the movie studios and record labels were distributing around
this same time. The method was a far cry from the old days of the
chainless chain, when A&A worked on disc: where every nuance had to be
perfect or the whole recording would be thrown out and they'd have to
start over again.

  Interestingly, a little later in his career Sinatra
would imitate the Kingfish on stage, as would Sammy
Davis Jr.

Freeman Gosden and Frank Sinatra were very close friends -- which is
unusual, since Gosden ordinarily didn't mix much with other showbiz
people: it was Correll who dearly loved the Hollywood scene, while Gosden
preferred to play golf with President Eisenhower or stay home and tinker
with his ham radio, his darkroom, or his tropical fish. (Gosden was
certainly never a Rat Pack type.) But Gosden and Sinatra became friendly
as part of the Hollywood colony in Palm Springs during the forties, and
during Gosden's retirement they became even closer -- with Gosden serving
as Sinatra's best man at his last wedding in 1976.

Elizabeth

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 11:02:34 -0400
From: leemunsick@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Long Ago and Far Away

Friend Harry Bartell responded to a poster's question about how original
radio performers react to all the interest in what they did 40-50-60 years
ago, and did they ever think then there could be such a reaction.  First of
all, I don't know why Harry felt qualified to answer such a question.  What
the heck does he know about those golden years?   Just kidding, Harry.

 From my discussions with these performers at FOTR, the first answer is
that they're stunned, and the second response is, no, how could they ever
have entertained such an idea.  For one thing, how could they feel that
their programs could or would be recalled in the future.  And why, since
there were simply more coming each day.

First, it should be stated that we all owe a tremendous debt to the advent
of the tape recorder, initially reel-to-reel and more recently
cassette.  Without them, most of these things would never be collected, and
the original discs would have remained in people's closets or
landfills.  And while certain people don't like to admit it, if it weren't
for people "illegally" copying and distributing the programs, the
collecting hobby would not have started, there would be no OTR conventions,
no periodicals, no OTR Digest.

Just like the phenomenal success of The Beatles.  If it weren't for
Americans picking up their early things in England and bringing them back
here and "pirating" copies, they would never have achieved their fame (and
incredible wealth, and a knighthood to boot!).   Every company putting out
retrospective albums of "Golden Oldies" has to rely on avid collectors to
get the recordings to begin with, because the original companies either
don't exist anymore, and probably wouldn't have the originals in their
vaults if they did.   Certain businessmen should not be too hard on people
distributing old programs.  If it weren't for them and their predecessors,
those businessmen wouldn't be in business earning their cushy incomes.

Back to the "old folk".  We at FOTR tried for years to get Dwight Weist to
come to the convention.  He was still active in New York and ran a
broadcasting school.  Friends who knew him reported back the typical
reaction of these OTR stars.  That was then, they didn't live in the past,
and who cared?  Quite understandable, until one actually sees an OTR
convention and we excited and adoring but generally very considerate fans.

Finally, our dear friend Jackson Beck said he would try to get to his
friend Dwight.  I guess he called in some IOUs or something, because he
finally got Dwight to come, probably kicking and screaming all the way
across the Hudson River from New York to Newark, [removed]  Thanks, Jack, and
thanks for your loyal participation for so many years.  We miss you!

Once at the convention, Dwight was amazed at the reaction he received.  He
said, "First, while radio was certainly a lot of fun, it was just a job we
did.  Once done, we forgot that program, script, or series.  Second, we
figured our work went out into the cosmos and was [removed]".

Any of us who has worked in radio gets the feeling after a while that there
really isn't anyone out there listening, anyway.  But to come to the
convention and find people who recall and ask about not only story plots
from shows aired in 1941, but even quote specific lines of dialogue!  That
remains mind-blowing.

Like many other recalcitrant performers, musicians, directors, writers, and
SFX performers who came reluctantly their first time, thereafter Dwight
returned every year for the several years remaining in his wonderful,
active life.   To our delight, he happily participated in panels and
re-creations each year.  One fascinating result was a reunion of and
re-creation of "The March of Time".  These were the absolute top people in
the field, and it gave this observer goosebumps to watch and hear as they
performed for us.  I lived not far from New York City, and was able to
and  considered it an amazing honor to get to know Dwight quite well, along
with many others of my childhood idols.

This might be a good time to revive a comment I've written here
before.  Being fairly visible as a member of the originally very small
committee at FOTR, I like my colleagues would often get this question from
newcomers:  "These people are so nice!  So pleasant and cooperative and
ingratiating!  Was everyone in radio 'way back then so nice?"

First of all, I didn't know these people in the 30s, 40s and so on.  So I
can't speak from their perspective at the time.  I do know that the
business could be highly competitive.  Those who really worked at it hard
and sometimes ruthlessly came out on top.  Some of his contemporaries, for
instance, have told us that they resented Dwight Weist at the time, because
he was really aggressive, and in many cases got jobs they thought they
should have been given.

The same with other people.  No doubt there were many actors who resented
the incredible schedule of work that Orson Welles did, which except for him
probably would have required a half-dozen other performers seeking payment
for those roles!   And they wouldn't have had to use ambulances!

But my stock answer to this question was simply logic:  "These great people
come to FOTR and other OTR conventions because they want to, and they know
they will have an enjoyable time.  There are others who don't want to have
anything to do with all this, and were they here--which they won't be--they
would obviously not be so pleasant.  And finally, there were undoubtedly
people back in the golden age who weren't nice then and aren't nice
now.  They aren't here either."

Of course the moral in all of this is, go to as many conventions and meet
as many of these wonderful people as you can.  Sadly, there are fewer of
them every year.  In another ten years probably the only one left will be
dear Arthur Anderson!  Bless him.  And bless all those who still come out
despite illness and infirmity.

We loved them all, then and now.  Thank heaven for their participation!

Lee Munsick

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 12:01:15 -0400
From: Ga6string@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Re: Of Idols and Lions

Hi all,

I agree with Hal Stone's comment --

<< Idolized and Lionized are words that makes me feel incredibly
uncomfortable. I'm [removed] with simply feeling "appreciated". >>

-- regarding the concept of "idolizing" OTR performers (or anyone else, for
that matter). Respectfully I submit that, IMHO, worshipping any person for
his/her accomplishments is a misuse of good intentions and good energy. I've
never understood, for example, why a grown man would go to a sports event
wearing another grown man's name on his back on a sports jersey. Ever thought
about that? For me, at least, it's much more important to be my own man, to
be a participant in life, rather than a spectator! I don't always accomplish
this feat, or do it very well at all, but I do try, and I certainly keep it
in mind.

A better use of the aforementioned energy and intentions, as Mr. Stone says,
is to "appreciate" a person's accomplishments and, if I may elaborate, to
learn from those accomplishments in a constructive manner and apply that
knowledge to one's own goals and ambitions. Take a close look at the work of
the person you admire and ask, "What is about this work, and this individual
or group, that I appreciate? Why is it meaningful to me? What skills,
attributes, values, etc., can I take from this experience for my own personal
use?"

For example: In many of the OTR works that I appreciate, one can track
pervasive and consistent moral themes and codes of behavior. Take "Gunsmoke"
or "The Adventures of Philip Marlowe," for example, and you'll see a
protagonist who doesn't always win, who doesn't always save the day, but who
has a sense of right and wrong that guides his behavior, even if it does not
result in material reward. Both Marlowe and Matt Dillon acknowledge that life
isn't pretty or glamourous or pleasing, but you do the best you can and make
the most of it, and refuse of surrender your dignity along the way. Somehow,
in embracing such a life, one can make it seem attractive, but really, how
many of us would have wanted to live in the emotional isolation and material
deprivation of such characters?

These values I mention are not consistent throughout OTR. Many OTR detective
stories feature a different type of hero, one who is simply smarter and/or
stronger than everyone else. I won't name names, but I bet you can think of
several. These characters do not appeal to me.

Further, such values are not unique to OTR, but existed on radio as in other
mediums, including fiction and (later) TV and film.

There's a great quote from Raymond Chandler, in his essay, "The Simple Art of
Murder," discussing the detective character he helped define with Marlowe,
that characterizes these values better than I can. Here some of it:

"In everything that can be called art there is a quality of redemption. It
may be pure tragedy, if it is high tragedy, and it may be pity and irony, and
it may be the raucous laughter of the strong man. But down these mean streets
a man must go who is not himself mean, who is neither tarnished nor [removed]
He is a relatively poor man, or he would not be a detective at all. He is a
common man or he could not go among common people. He will take no man's
money dishonestly and no man's insolence without a due and dispassionate
revenge. He is a lonely man and his pride is that you will treat him as a
proud man or be very sorry you ever saw him. He talks as the man of his age
talks -- that is, with rude wit, a lively sense of the grotesque, a disgust
for sham, and a contempt for [removed]"

Now, I ask you, does that not describe radio's Matt Dillon equally as well as
Philip Marlowe? Marlowe, of course, is a literary creation that became a
pretty darn good radio character, while Dillon is borne of OTR. If one
applies the above standard to the TV characterization of Dillon, I think it's
clear to see why so many of us prefer William Conrad's depiction to that of
James Arness. There is a darkness in the description above, a complexity that
Conrad captured, while Arness, for my money, did not. This to me, is why
"Gunsmoke" is great OTR, why it succeeded on radio, artistically, in a way
that was not fully realized on TV. (Hard to argue with the COMMERCIAL success
of either, however.) OTR may be a time capsule, in a sense, but these are
timeless themes regarding human behavior. I personally find it fascinating to
look at OTR this way.

Anyway, I've rambled along quite awhile here, and gotten well off-point, but
what can I say? I love this stuff!

Sincerely,
Bryan Powell

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 12:07:32 -0400
From: "Ted Kneebone" <tkneebone1@[removed];
To: "Old Time Radio Digest" <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Quiet, [removed]

Thanks to Jim Widner and John Matthews for their insightful comments about
Quiet, Please.  If one only knows that program by Thing on the Fourble Board,
he or she is missing a lot.  To John's list of favorite episodes, I would add
these:

    One for the book
    Valentine
    Pathetic fallacy
    Little visitor
    Berlin 1945
    Red and white guideon
    Thirteen and eight
    Twelve to five
    Time of the big snow
    Third man's story
    Presto, change-o I'm sure

The Quiet Please fan is faced with poor audio on many of the shows, but some
of the titles have survived quite well and others have been enhanced.  Some
shows have been lost and survive only in script form.  Randy Eidmiller and
Chris Lembesis have published a book on the series with plot summaries and
interesting articles about the writer and cast.  The scripts for the missing
shows are available from Randy, who will likely post his address on this
Digest.

Ted Kneebone
1528 S. Grant St., Aberdeen, SD 57401 / 605-226-3344
OTR:  [removed]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 12:16:27 -0400
From: "George Coppen*" <gacoppen@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Just a thought

I have been hanging around the Digest for a few years now and have really
enjoyed the knowledge and dedication that some folks have put into these
pages of days gone by. Just this past weekend I spent almost the complete
two days on the computer going from web page to web page, site to site and
at the end of the addresses I had to go to I get todays Digest and there is
another address I did not have. Now enter my devious mind, I started to
wonder just how many sites and web pages are out there that I have not
visited. As I am not very talented I do not have a web site or page
dedicated to OTR but I can appreciate that it must take hours and hours of
time, talent and knowledge to put one up on the internet, and I would like
to see them all. How would that be possible I wondered, WELL why not sit
down and put the suggestuion forward to have all OTR SITE owners write  the
Digest and leave their addresses so that Charlie can put them into the
coming Digests so untalented people like me or others  who are interested
folks can go to them. I suppose this suggestion, if acted upon by many
people  might cause Charlie a real headache for a couple of days but Charlie
knows we all love him and his dedication to having a great Digest, dont you
Charlie??
It is a suggestion that I thought might bring forward some small sites that
we dont hear about too often, some of them are just super and well put
together and who knows you might find a program listed that you had never
heard of before or a place to obtain a program that you have been searching
for. On the other hand if you are the owner of such, this is a great way of
exposing your talent and skills to others that are interested in the same
thing as you. Its just a suggestion, if its acted upon who knows where it
might lead to, but one thing is for sure, its a subject we all
[removed]

[ADMINISTRIVIA: It's an interesting suggestion, but it would be reinventing
the wheel. Our friend Jim Widner maintains a database of OTR links at:

[removed]

...which allows for one-stop shopping. There are 550 links listed there right
now. But no links to the OTR Digest subscribe [removed], I can't complain
since there's a link on the main page of Jim's [removed] ;)  --cfs3]

--------------------------------
End of [removed] Digest V2002 Issue #143
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