------------------------------
The Old-Time Radio Digest!
Volume 2005 : Issue 144
A Part of the [removed]!
[removed]
ISSN: 1533-9289
Today's Topics:
Re: Least favorite shows [ Cnorth6311@[removed] ]
harlem hospitality club [ "ed carr" <edcarr@[removed]; ]
Disliked Programs, ENOUGH ALREADY!! [ "Paul Thompson" <beachcrows@sbcglob ]
One Man's Family [ <otrbuff@[removed]; ]
ABC is a Mickey Mouse organization [ "MICHAEL BIEL" <mbiel@[removed]; ]
Re: Best and worst old time radio sh [ "Jan Bach" <janbach@[removed]; ]
Worst program [ davesline@[removed] ]
Re: Disney and Copyright [ "David Tower" <dtower@[removed]; ]
Re: least favorite [ Dixonhayes@[removed] ]
RE: FRED ALLEN at Boston Public Libr [ "thomas heathwood" <HeritageRadio@m ]
Best shows I never heard as a [removed] [ "Ted Kneebone" <tkneebone1@[removed] ]
BBC7 [ "Mike Hobart" <zines50@[removed]; ]
Re: For what it's worth. [ Hal Stone <otrjug@[removed]; ]
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 18:56:57 -0400
From: Cnorth6311@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Re: Least favorite shows
If I felt the way _ARago17320@[removed]_ (mailto:ARago17320@[removed]) feels
about OTR shows, I wouldn't even bother listening. Guess I am not PC enough
to
worry about such things. I just enjoy the shows for what they are, and do not
read anything into them. If that were the case, I probably wouldn't watch
many movies, nor read many books. What a dull life that would be, huh?
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 19:36:34 -0400
From: "ed carr" <edcarr@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: harlem hospitality club
hi
is anyone familiar with harlem hospitality club
with little miss corn chuck, willie bryant, amanda randolf
ed
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 20:21:07 -0400
From: "Paul Thompson" <beachcrows@[removed];
To: "OTR Digest" <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Disliked Programs, ENOUGH ALREADY!!
In the last digest Al Ragonnet said it as well as it could be
expressed when he said in part:
Some of us are old enough to have heard these shows as children.
Some have
been born after OTR died and are coming to OTR as adults or
teenagers. This
means that when listening to the shows it is impossible (yes, I
really think
it is impossible) to judge them by the standards of the times they
were
broadcast. We hear them with all the modern thought patterns we now
deal
[removed] <<
As one having been born before many of the shows recently categorized
as worse, disliked or otherwise came into existence, I can appreciate
what Al said in his post. Many of today's OTR's fans are hearing these
programs with modern ears and sensibilities and will hear them much
differently than those of us that grew up listening to them. When that
wonderful piece of talking furniture graced our living rooms there
were programs that some members of the household wouldn't listen to
while others wouldn't miss an episode. It's a matter of personal
preference. It's no different today with television or music. Perhaps
the irritant for some of us in this recent outpouring of disliked show
listings is that they seem more like an ongoing hit list (as [removed]
come, add your candidates before the nominations close).
[removed] one man's junk is another man's treasure, and vice
versa.
Paul Thompson
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 20:22:21 -0400
From: <otrbuff@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: One Man's Family
>From Those Were The Days --
5/8
1959 - The final broadcast of One Man's Family was heard on NBC after
being on the air 27 years. The show had completed 3,256 episodes since
its beginning in 1932.
Subsequent investigation in recent years has caused me to become convinced
that most contemporary scholars, including (if I may be so bold) this
researcher, have gotten this wrong. There is compelling evidence to the
contrary, including some documentarians on this list who specialize in
studying One Man's Family, that claim NBC wiped away the final vestiges of
its open-ended (continuing storyline) daytime serials not on May 8, 1959 as
has been so frequently repeated but two weeks earlier, April 24, 1959.
While the longrunning Pepper Young's Family died on January 2, 1959 and most
of NBC's other durable serials expired in 1955 or 1956 (or were transferred
to CBS in that era), yet another Carlton E. Morse creation, The Woman in My
House, was allowed to persist also through April 24, 1959. At that juncture
new episodes of daytime serials that had lasted nearly three decades over
NBC appear to have ceased. CBS, meanwhile, continued airing a handful of
soap operas to November 25, 1960, often dubbed "the day radio drama died."
I have attempted to set this record straight in a forthcoming volume.
Jim Cox
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 20:25:02 -0400
From: "MICHAEL BIEL" <mbiel@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: ABC is a Mickey Mouse organization
Thanks to Doug Leary for his comments about my Library of
Congress/Copyright post. It is appropriately ironic that he uses Walt
Disney as an example of someone who profited from the Public Domain,
because inadvertently Disney became the focus of the Eldred case which
tried to fight the Sonny Bono Copyright Extension Act. The idiots in the
mainstream corporate press made it appear that if Eldred won the case then
Disney would LOSE Mickey Mouse. That asinine falsehood, which became the
headline of every news story about the case, sidetracked everybody enough
that the one hour that the Supreme Court grants was partially wasted. All
that would have happened is that one-by-one after 2003, the individual
FILMS would go into the public domain. The CHARACTER and image of Mickey
Mouse, being a TRADEMARK, would remain Disney's property. I don't know who
brought up the fake Disney story first, but certainly nobody at ABC could
be blamed.
If you believe that, I have this bridge near my daughter's apartment in
Brooklyn . . . . . . . .
Michael Biel mbiel@[removed]
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 21:07:56 -0400
From: "Jan Bach" <janbach@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Re: Best and worst old time radio shows
Hello again --
I have to jump into the fray here and add to the ongoing discussion re the
best vs. the worst shows of OTR.
I agree with Kermyt Anderson's point that Bob and Ray must be inferior to
Vic and Sade if the number of "guys talking" is any measurement of a radio
show as Ron Sayles suggests. Of course, Ron is measuring OTR by story and
sound effects, but they aren't the only measure. Bob Hope had one of the
most popular programs on the air in his heyday, and the programs bore me to
tears today . . . this was funny? Of course, all of Bob's topical humor
became as old as yesterday's newspaper and in about the same amount of time.
So very little of it is funny today, whereas Jack Benny's situations (and, I
might add, those of Vic and Sade and Easy Aces) are timeless in their
faithfulness to the human condition, which never really changes. That is the
continuing power of Shakespeare as well, despite his often (to us) obscure
language.
Among the worst OTR shows I can mention is, I believe, Mr. Keene, Tracer of
Lost Persons. He was introduced as one of the most famous characters of
fiction, in one of radio's most exciting dramas. Famous? Perry Mason,
Sherlock Holmes, and Ellery Queen were famous. One of radio's most exciting
dramas? Listen to two or three of these in a row (easy to do now with the
number of mp3 disks available) and you quickly realize the formula which
remained the same week after week -- a character is killed off in the first
five minutes (No! Don't kill me with that gun you're holding! Oh! You just
killed me) after which Mr. Keene, who long ago apparently abandoned his
"missing persons" function, is called in and quickly solves the case despite
the misunderstandings of his embarrassing stooge -- sorry, his partner --
Mike Clancy. That was really "over the top" radio acting! Phooey!
Jan Bach
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 21:30:46 -0400
From: davesline@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Worst program
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain
The subject of which is the worst program in radio is a totally subjective
one. What I love, you may hate, and with good reason. It all depends on your
personal interests, personality and background. When I was a kid, I would
come home from school and Mom would have The Eddie Arnold Show on, boy I
hated that show, likewise I disliked The Grand Ole Opry. But I really like
them both now and whenever possible I try to add one to my collection. I was
a real fan of The Rail Road Hour back then, now I find it sort of corny.
Times- they- do- change and so do people. Best wishes, Dave Palmer
*** This message was altered by the server, and may not appear ***
*** as the sender intended. ***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 21:56:04 -0400
From: "David Tower" <dtower@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Re: Disney and Copyright
In response to Doug Leary's post on Disney and copyright law:
"What struck me is that if the same copyright terms had applied to
literature when Walt Disney was a young man, the Disney empire as we know
it would not exist today. Mickey Mouse notwithstanding, the foundation of
Walt's fortune was public domain material from the likes of Mark Twain,
Hans Christian Anderson and the Brothers Grimm, all of which would have
been under copyright in the [removed] Disney has the money to
negotiate rights to just about anything they want, but that wealth exists
because Walt had the freedom to build upon the legacy of the
past -- a freedom Americans no longer have."<<
Of Disney's first features, only Snow White seems to have been in the public
domain. Bambi (1942) and Dumbo (1941) were clearly under copyright, and
likely Pinnochio (1940) as well. Collodi dying in 1890.
Walt in the thirties was not interested in competing head-to-head against
the majors. You do not produce an animated Treasure Island when MGM in its
prime casts Wallace Beery, Jackie Cooper, Lionel Barrymore, Lewis Stone and
Nigel Bruce for the live-action feature. Looked at closely, I think the
argument that Disney's success was based on exploiting public domain sources
simply falls apart.
Those who object to the studio's stand on copyright might want to consider
this: There are no "lost" Disney titles.
Because the backlist remains commercially viable, there is the incentive to
protect it. The Bambi DVD includes extraordinary things drawn from the
Disney archives, such as the original multiplane background paintings on
glass. Transcripts of story sessions, sheet music, concept art. How many
times have you wished that anything of the sort had survived from your OTR
favorites?
David Tower
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 23:12:40 -0400
From: Dixonhayes@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Re: least favorite
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain
In a message dated 5/8/05 5:18:28 PM Central Daylight Time,
[removed]@[removed] writes:
By the way, I've really been digging Rocky Fortune,
but it doesnt seem to be a very popular show in OTR
circles.
I have always recognized it to be fairly lame and ridiculous but for some
reason I still find it entertaining. I once found a whole batch of episodes
for
download and couldn't stop listening, even after the insanely preposterous
episode about the spaceship. It was really a hoot.
Dixon
*** This message was altered by the server, and may not appear ***
*** as the sender intended. ***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 23:14:22 -0400
From: "thomas heathwood" <HeritageRadio@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: RE: FRED ALLEN at Boston Public Library
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain
Re: The Question about FRED ALLEN SHOWS at The Boston Public Library:
I (and others) have been working on the problem of the NBC programs held
"hostage" at the Boston Public Library for many years. When newsman. Robert
Taylor (THE BOSTON GLOBE) wrote his book
on Fred several years ago, he came on our local version (AM Radio Boston) of
Heritage Radio Theatre
and discussed the book and the holdings at the Boston Public Library. This
led to my initial campaign
to get the famed library to let Fred out of bondage. His programs which were
supplied (as Alan Chapman mentioned) by Allen's wife, Portland Hoffa, were,
however, they were a set of dubs
made by NBC for Portland. The tapes at the Library are NOT NBC "Masters" - in
fact, these were not great copies at all. Portland also supplied most (if
not all) of Fred's personal papers which were a great acquisition. They
decided everything would be placed in the rare
book section and only be seen/heard under supervision. Portland also supplied
$10,000 for the library to make copies of the programs to cassette from the
NBC reels. This project was begun - but only a small number of shows were
professionally transferred. The Library then decided that they were spending
too much money having this done professionally, so they hooked up a reel
machine to a cassette recorder and began making their "own" cassettes. Alas,
this project didn't go far either, and only a couple of dozen tapes were made
in the "home-made" fashion. The Library contemplated having copies of some of
the cassettes that had been made, sold through the gift shop. This plan was
never executed either.
This took us back to "step one" with the tapes all in the restricted stacks,
without members being able to borrow even the "copies of copies".
Now, as mentioned, the only access the ALLEN programs is to listen to the
cassette dubs IN the Library withoiut any possibility of "borrowing" or
copying any of the material for home use.
Over the several years there has been no change in policy, despite the
publicity from Taylor's book and his comments in THE BOSTON GLOBE, as well as
many, many requests/demands/suggestions from interested members of the Library
and the general public. Fred, sadly, still remains inder wraps at Boston
Public Library, despite periodic rumors that the policy was going to change.
Fred, of course, was employed as a young man, as a "stack boy" at BPL and did
some of his first public "entertainment" at a BPL annual Christmas Party,
where fellow-workers encouraged him to pursue a career in show-business - but
not in his original role of a juggler, but as a funny-man on stage.
How sad, I have always thought, Fred would see his "fate" at the Library -
being relegated to a musty
restricted area of one of the World's great libraries. Many of the rest of us
feel the same way.
Luckily - many other sources have since surfaced that give us a wide selection
of FRED ALLEN radio
and TV programs. One can only suppose that someday, the BPL will be more
responsive to its
memebers and people worldwide who would love to know and have access to
everything that was
given to the Library for that purpose.
Tom Heathwood / Heritage Radio Theatre / Heritage Radio Classics
HeritageRadio@[removed]<mailto:HeritageRadio@[removed];
[removed]<[removed];
*** This message was altered by the server, and may not appear ***
*** as the sender intended. ***
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 08:00:27 -0400
From: "Ted Kneebone" <tkneebone1@[removed];
To: "Old Time Radio Digest" <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Best shows I never heard as a [removed]
How about a new category: the best shows I never heard as a kid? As a
collector and trader of old time radio, I was happy to [removed]
"Quiet, please."
What a delightful mix of horror, science fiction, comedy, and even religion!
The acting by Ernest Chappell and the writing of Wyllis Cooper were superb.
And I never heard this show as a kid. Thank God for the gift of growing old
and electrical transcriptions (even the scratchy ones)! And for people who
saved them.
Ted Kneebone. OTR website: [removed]
1528 S. Grant St. - Aberdeen, SD 57401 - 605-226-3344
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 08:01:06 -0400
From: "Mike Hobart" <zines50@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: BBC7
Latest ratings in British radio show an increase in listeners for the
digital station BBC7 which devotes a lot of its day to Old Time Radio. From
391,000 BBC 7 listeners in the last quarter of 2004, They have leapt by 41%
to 556,000 listeners from January - March 2005.
Mary Kalemkerian (Head of Programmes BBC7) attended the European
Broadcasting Union Conference, where she delivered a presentation on how an
archive network can attract new listeners to speech radio.
The delegates were all from public service radio throughout Europe, and many
ideas were shared and discussed. A common theme was, unsurprisingly, that
"content, content, content" is the key to the success of any radio station.
Amen to that!
[removed]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 08:55:15 -0400
From: Hal Stone <otrjug@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Re: For what it's worth.
Some time ago, I posted another of my brief mentions about how to obtain a
copy of my book, "Aw!, Relax Archie. Relaxx!!!.
My "Down Under" Buddy, Ian Grieve, the Awesome Aussie, followed that up with
a funny (to me at least) response, kidding me about mentioning my book
(again) and in his ramblings, he printed my book ordering web address (link)
about 4 or 5 times more.
Unfortunately, I was heavily involved (still) in my home remodeling
projects, and didn't have the chance to zing Ian in return. Besides, I was
looking for the Aussie to English dictionary he sent me, so I could respond
in a language he would understand, but it's buried under packing boxes.
At any rate, since I didn't react and have a come-back for Ian, he must have
thought I was miffed at his publicly teasing me here in the hallowed pages
of the Digest. Hence, last week, he recently sent me this private message
off list.
Here are a few excerpts.
G'Day Hal,
I saw your post today in the Digest and it reminded me to email you.
I hope you didn't take offence at my post about your plugs for your book.
It was in jest and wasn't meant to offend. I enjoy your posts and I love it
when you sneak in a plug :) I can't for the life of me understand why you
have copies left, it was a great read and I enjoy your writing style. I
have hundreds of OTR related books and one day I hope to write a couple, but
yours has pride of place on one of my bookshelves because you included so
many other people instead of concentrating on yourself, I can refer back to
it often looking for a picture or a little info on a person. (SNIP)
Now I call that high praise indeed. For those of you who don't know about
Ian, he is considered to be the Grand Poo Bah of Australian OTR. To prove
that [removed] goes on to say.
I still read the Digest but most of my spare time is spent documenting
Australian OTR, we have a lot of years of documenting to do to catch up with
what the [removed] collectors and researchers have done. So far we have databased
over 4,000 Australian Series/Serials and the list will probably go over
5,000. Then it will be a matter of adding the fine details.
I have always believed in the old [removed]"A pleased customer is your best
advertisement". When my book pleases a reader who is considered to be a
paragon of OTR knowledge, I feel I have arrived as an author. :)
But then again, he is an Aussie, and they definitely march to a different
drummer. (Or is it marching to the strains of a didgeridoo?)
But what I think will tickle Ian (Hey Ian, the word "tickle" is "American"
for pleasing) is that following Ian's post, when he mentiond my book site at
least 4 times, I received 4 book orders the following week.
And honestly folks, there really are only a few copies left, and frankly, I
want to close this chapter in my life, and get rid of them. I don't need the
money. I just need the space. :)
Bottom line, I notice that New subscribers are always being added to the
Digest list. So for their benefit solely, I should mention that my book
about my life in OTR was written at the urging of many Digest members, and
was written expressly for Digest members. So, if you young un's out there
wanna know what it was like to work as a radio performer in those good old
days, and get a feel for OTR celebrities and characters I met along the way,
you might want to check out this site and see if the book has any appeal to
you. And, I happily inscribe and autograph each copy.
[removed]
Hey Ian, I didn't disappoint you. I snuck in another plug. And it probably
will be the last. (Do I hear applause in the background?)
Incidentally, I should also mention how excited I am to be a guest again at
the upcoming REPS Convention in Seattle. (June 24th-25th @ the Seattle
Convention Center)
Ordinarily, I'd say I was "Pleased" to be invited. At my age, it takes a lot
to "Excite" me. :) But in this case, I'm really hyped up. I'll be directing
(And Co-starring in, I might add) what will probably be the last performance
of an "Archie Andrews" recreation that will be performed by three of the
four surviving original cast members. Bob Hastings (Archie), Rosemary Rice
(Betty) and yours truly (Jughead). Unfortunately Jane Webb (Veronica) can't
make it, but she will be there in spirit. They are flying Rosemary all the
way out from NY for this special event. It's a fun script, and we will have
some super talent in all the other roles.
This presentation goes hand in hand with the release of about 10+ newly
discovered recordings from the early days of the Archie Show, that are in
the process of being digitally re-mastered from NBC air check discs. (Or
else they were originally used for DB broadcasts to the West Coast). These
new CD's will be available at the Convention, and Bob, Rosemary and I will
be autographing them.
Hastings and I have also been asked to do our "Bob any Ray" routines, and
the Convention producers have put together a host of other entertaining
shows.
So, if anyone from the West Coast area (or anyplace else for that matter)
wants to attend this always fun OTR Convention, I suggest you contact a
super nice guy named Mike Sprague for Convention details, costs, etc.
You can reach him at
<HRRMIKES@[removed];
OK? Look forward to seeing you there. And be sure to come up and introduce
yourself as a fellow "Digester".
Hal(Harlan)Stone
Jughead
--------------------------------
End of [removed] Digest V2005 Issue #144
*********************************************
Copyright [removed] Communications, York, PA; All Rights Reserved,
including republication in any form.
If you enjoy this list, please consider financially supporting it:
[removed]
For Help: [removed]@[removed]
To Unsubscribe: [removed]@[removed]
To Subscribe: [removed]@[removed]
or see [removed]
For Help with the Archive Server, send the command ARCHIVE HELP
in the SUBJECT of a message to [removed]@[removed]
To contact the listmaster, mail to listmaster@[removed]
To Send Mail to the list, simply send to [removed]@[removed]