------------------------------
The Old-Time Radio Digest!
Volume 01 : Issue 37
A Part of the [removed]!
Today's Topics:
re: 33, 45, 78 [Tyrone Settlemier <settlet@[removed];]
Re: Dr. Watson's Birthdate [RobertWGee@[removed] ]
Harpo on Radio [JJJ445@[removed] ]
Ward Bond ["McGuffin, Steve" <smcguffin@vsdbs.]
John, John, John - Marsha, Marsha, M [KENPILETIC@[removed] ]
Harpo Speaks ["J. Randolph Cox" <cox@[removed]]
Re: Disc Speeds [Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed]]
Re: Harpo Speaking ... or not? [Wboenig@[removed] ]
Re: The Bowes Collection [Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed]]
Re: Harpo on Burns & Allen [Wboenig@[removed] ]
Re: Chico Marx, non-Italian style [Wboenig@[removed] ]
Suspense -- The Waxwork ["Harry Machin, Jr." <harbev5@earthl]
Tragic Tags [Udmacon@[removed] ]
Mark 56 and ... ["Ted Kneebone" <tkneebone1@[removed]]
Harpo and Murro [John Henley <jhenley@[removed]]
re Jell-O [John Henley <jhenley@[removed]]
Chico's voice [John Henley <jhenley@[removed]]
The cold shoulder? ["Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@]
Re: Orson Welles and prunes ["Michael Ogden" <michaelo67@hotmail]
more on Tonto's horse [Joe Salerno <salernoj@[removed]; ]
33-45-78 [Elliot S Ferber <otrcollector@juno.]
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 11:05:03 -0500
From: Tyrone Settlemier <settlet@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: re: 33, 45, 78
From: Dan Hughes <danhughes@[removed];
Subject: 33, 45, 78
Okay, first there were 78 rpm records, then 33, then 45. Is it just a
coincidence that 33 plus 45 equals 78? Or did choosing speeds that added
cleanly make it easier to engineer 3-speed record players?
I'll keep it very brief, as it may be off-topic. The 78 speed was finalized in
the 1920s. The first discs rotated between approximately 60 and 80 rpm. 33rpm
was used in the 20's also, and by the 40s was used almost exclusively by radio
stations, until Columbia introduced the vinyl microgroove LP commercially in
'48. 45rpm was developed in the 40s by RCA. I believe it is just coincidence,
since RCA did not intend to utilize a three-speed player.
For what it's worth, I'm 30, and was introduced to OTR through my record
collecting. Now I actively search for old radio transcriptions, so I can
loan them to the First Generation Radio Archives.
Tyrone Settlemier
settlet@[removed]
settlet@[removed]
[removed]~settlet/[removed]
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 11:36:58 -0500
From: RobertWGee@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Re: Dr. Watson's Birthdate
A second question I have is about Doctor Watson. How old would he have
been in the 1940"s?
According to the Baring-Gould book, Dr. Watson was born 7 August 1852, so he
would have been in his nineties in the 1940s.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 12:22:44 -0500
From: JJJ445@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Harpo on Radio
One of my favorite recollections of Harpo Marx on radio was a Command
Performance Broadcast where Jack Benny is host. He introduces Harpo and then
says because Harpo doesn't speak that he'd bring out a translator. Before one
line is said the audience is howling because out walks Gary Cooper. As you
know, Coop's on-screen personnae was a man of few words and the absurdity of
him being Harpo's translater was apparent to all.
Sure enough, Benny asked Harpo a question, who in turn made noises, whistled,
squeezed his horn and so on for some length of time. There was a moment of
silence as Coop determined how he would respond. Even though the audience
already knew the only think that Coop could possibly say, it still brought
down the house when he said, "Yep."
The rest of the skit was Jack asking the question, Harpo doing his noises and
Cooper responding "yep" and "nope." By the time it was over, the audience was
in hysterics.
John Jensen
Federal Way, WA
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 12:50:04 -0500
From: "McGuffin, Steve" <smcguffin@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Ward Bond
I don't think there was a movie made between 1930 and 1960 that did not have
Ward Bond in it. But I don't think I've ever heard him on any radio
programs. Anyone out there have any evidence to the contrary? Or did Ward
just not do radio?
Steve
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 12:50:06 -0500
From: KENPILETIC@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: John, John, John - Marsha, Marsha, Marsha
Hi Gang - February 2, 2001 - Friday - 11 AM cst
Stan Freberg often recorded parodies of radio programs.
One such parody was "John and Marsha". The question is this:
What radio program was he parodying? Was it any particular
Soap Opera, or was it a "general" sort of thing? I'm thinking
perhaps "John's Other Wife", but her name was Elizabeth.
If anybody knows what was the "original" program was, please
let me (and all of us) know. Thanks.
Happy Taping -- Ken Piletic - Streamwood, Illinois
kenpiletic@[removed]
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 12:50:07 -0500
From: "J. Randolph Cox" <cox@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Harpo Speaks
I am delighted to learn that so many of you recommend reading and re-reading
Harpo Marx's autobiography _Harpo Speaks_. It is a true gem. I remember when
it was published and every bookstore seemingly had stacks of the hard cover
edition. I bought one of these for my brother as a gift My brother is not
one for much reading, but he has read and re-read this for years. I later
acquired the paperback and have read it about as many times as he has. We
have added a number of phrases from the book which we drop into our
conversations from time to time (you know, the sort of references which can
only be understood within a family) Every so often one of us decides that
it's time to read _Harpo Speaks_ again.
I'm not really surprised to learn that George Garabedian never paid anyone
for the use of those programs on vinyl -- it's something I had suspected all
along.
Randy Cox
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 13:14:23 -0500
From: Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Re: Disc Speeds
Steve Kallis observes,
Well, the lowest of these speeds was 33 1/3, so there'd be a 1/3 RPM
difference. I know that in terms of revolutions per hour, it'd be 2000,
2700, and 4680; in this scenario, the first and second don't add up to
the third.
The 33 + 45 = 78 equation is purely coincidental.
33 1/3 rpm was developed in the mid 1920s by Western Electric for the
Vitaphone sound-on-disc process. A WE research technician by the name of
Stanley Watkins is believed to have been the individual who decided on
that speed -- and it was chosen based on (1) the need to fit ten minutes
of audio on a single side, that being the average length of a standard
reel of motion picture film running at 90 feet per minute, and (2) the
need to avoid audio degradation at the center of the disc. Watkins
determined by experimentation that a 16" disc running at 33 1/3 rpm, with
the inner groove having a starting diameter no less than eight inches
would best achieve this purpose. In 1929, this system began to be used
for radio syndication discs, and eventually became the industry standard,
even as it fell out of favor with the film industry (Vitaphone went to
12" 33 1/3 rpm discs in 1930.)
Interestingly, at the time the Vitaphone system was being developed, the
[removed] rpm speed had yet to be standardized, and it can be a real
challenge to figure out the proper speed for playing back "78 rpm"
records of pre-1930 vintage. Recording speeds ranging from 71 to 80 rpm
were common, and all phonographs were equipped with adjustable speed
regulators for those who wanted to be sure they were playing their
recordings at the correct pitch. (This was especially important to
collectors of classical recordings!)
45 rpm was developed by a trial-and-error experimental process as well,
one that had been underway at RCA Victor for nearly a decade before the
45 rpm speed was commercially introduced in 1949. Speeds as low as 40 rpm
had been used during the experimental period, but 45rpm on a 7 inch disc
yielded the best quality of sound for the groove width used.
Now to bring an OTR twist to get this on-topic: the transcription disks
for OTR shows were huge 78 RPM affairs, and the George Garabedian (and
other) LPs were, of course, 33 1/3.
78rpm 16" discs were very rare, although I have encountered one or two,
usually test cuts never intended for commercial use. I believe Mike Biel
has actually seen a pressing of a 16" 78rpm disc, but it was also an
experimental recording,
Most 16" discs were 33 1/3 rpm, with the 78 speed reserved for 10" and
12" sizes --- but just to show that there are no hard and fast rules, the
12" size discs are also often found recorded at 33 1/3, many years before
the so-called "invention of the LP." (There were even experiments with
microgroove recording, twenty years before the supposed breakthru by
Peter Goldmark.)
Anybody know of any OTR
manifestations in 45 RPM other than novelty songs sung on OTR shows, like
Phil Harris' "The Thing" or "The Old Master Painter"?
The "Amos 'n' Andy" Lord's Prayer sequence was released on a Columbia
45rpm disc, complete with A&A picture sleeve, and was still available in
at least some stores well into the 1960s. Likewise, a number of popular
Stan Freberg routines -- St. George and the Dragonet, Green Chri$tma$,
and such -- were released in the 45 rpm format.
Elizabeth
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 13:18:50 -0500
From: Wboenig@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Re: Harpo Speaking ... or not?
In a message dated 2/2/01 11:11:18 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[removed]@[removed] writes:
John Henley mentioned that he found a 30 second recording of Harpo
speaking to the public. It seems to me that there was a TV interview in
the 1950's with Harpo at home in Palm Springs. My memory may be faulty
but it seems to me that it was a Ed Morrow Person to "Person to Person"
show.
Does anybody else remember this?
Harpo was indeed interviewed on Edward R. Murrow's "Person To Person" on
January 3, 1958, but he did not speak. That duty was left up to his wife and
four children. The recording to which John Henley refers was broadcast
recently on a BBC documentary, and (to the best of my understanding) was a
home recording of Harpo dictating his memoirs for his biographer around 1960.
There is one other instance of Harpo's voice being recorded. It was at the
opening of The Ziegfeld Follies in 1936, and Harpo was in attendance. He was
just about to be introduced to a crowd outside the theater, and he said to
the (unnamed) MC "You're going to have to do all the talking." About ten
seconds later he walked back to the microphone and said "Honk! Honk!" A
newsreel camera was rolling and captured this on film. The film was aired
some years ago on Leonard Maltin's segment of "Entertainment Tonight"
But Harpo never "officially" talked on camera or before a live microphone,
unless you count the opening scene of the Marx Brothers movie "Monkey
Business", where the ship's first mate tells the captain that there are four
stowaways hiding below. The captain asks him how he knows that there are
four, and the first mate replies "Because I heard them singing 'Sweet
Adeline'!" But this is a debate for another time ....
Wayne Boenig
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 13:20:00 -0500
From: Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Re: The Bowes Collection
Joseph Scott wonders
Would any of Gaillard's appearances on Major Bowes still exist? I think I'm
correct in saying that they'd be his earliest recordings, from before he
recorded commercially as a band singer or appeared on Vallee's show.
Essentially all of the Major Bowes programs survive, beginning with the
first network broadcast of the program on 3/24/35, and continuing to the
end of the run. (The pre-network WHN shows from 1934-35 are not known to
exist.)
The Bowes collection is held by the Library of Congress, along with all
the paper documentation connected to the series. If you can find the
specific dates you're interested in, it's usually an easy matter for the
LOC staff to check and see if the specified recordings are available.
Interesting trivia note: although Bowes is credited with starting the
"amateur hour" craze of 1934-36, his program was not the first *network*
amateur hour. While Bowes was still airing as a local feature on WHN,
both Fred Allen and Ray Perkins, "the Old Topper," had begun their own
amateur features at the network level -- Perkins' "National Amateur
Night" began on 12/30/34 and Allen began his "Town Hall Amateurs" segment
on Town Hall Tonight with the broadcast of 1/2/35. While both of these
features were responses to the popularity of Bowes' WHN show, it must
have seemed to listeners *outside* New York that when the Major began his
network run, he was actually riding the coattails of Allen and Perkins.
Elizabeth
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 13:20:17 -0500
From: Wboenig@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Re: Harpo on Burns & Allen
In a message dated 2/2/01 11:11:18 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[removed]@[removed] writes:
Chuck Schaden a year or two ago played a "Burns and Allen" show with Harpo
as the guest. Amazingly, it was one of the funniest shows I've ever heard.
It's probably the B&A show that Wayne Boenig just had on his list.
What is the date of that show?
May 9, 1946 -- "Gracie Hires Harpo Marx To Be An Investigative Reporter"
(and yes, that is the one on my list)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 13:21:20 -0500
From: Wboenig@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Re: Chico Marx, non-Italian style
In a message dated 2/2/01 11:11:18 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[removed]@[removed] writes:
It was great to hear the 30-second spot of Harpo speaking on
<[removed];[removed]. This got me to
wondering
whether there are any recordings of Chico speaking in his normal speaking
voice ([removed] sans the fake Italian accent)?
Obviously this is a judgement call, but the best example I can think of is
when Chico was in London in 1959, and he was interviewed by the BBC. A clip
of this interview appears in the documentary "The Marx Brothers In A
Nutshell" (now out of print, but available at finer web auction sites
everywhere). I also have a video copy of his appearance on the game show
"The Name's The Same" from 1954 or 1955 where it seemed he had to keep
reminding himself to speak with an accent. The common bond here is that in
both cases, Chico was an older man, and probably didn't want to put the extra
energy into speaking with a somewhat fabricated accent.
To bring this back on topic, Clifton Fadiman was the host on this episode of
TNTS. Rumor has it that he did a little radio work as well .... ;-)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 13:22:51 -0500
From: "Harry Machin, Jr." <harbev5@[removed];
To: "Old Time Radio" <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Suspense -- The Waxwork
I recall someone posting a comment some time back
about William Conrad playing all of the parts on
"Waxworks." The show was entitled "The Waxwork"
and was broadcast twice. First, May 1st, 1956, and
second, March 1st, 1959. William Conrad played all
of the parts in the first broadcast; Herbert Marshall
played all of the parts in the second. (The host for the
Wm Conrad show is also the host for Inner Sanctum.)
Harry
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 13:22:49 -0500
From: Udmacon@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Tragic Tags
Sayeth Owens Pomeroy:
Here then is what happened when an item backfired on a newsman in a
small station ion Winston-Salem NC, in the Forties:
NEWSMAN: '. . . AND FINALLY, THIS ITEM OF LOCAL INTEREST MAY AMUSE
YOU. THE COUNTY DOG CATCHER WAS QUITE EMBARRASSED YESTERDAY, WHILE HE
WAS ROUNDING UP A STRAY DOG ADJACENT TO ONE OF OUR WINSTON-SALEM TOBACCO
FACTORIES, THE BACK DOOR OF HIS TRUCK SPRANG OPEN, AND 19 DOGS - HIS ENTIRE
DAY'S CATCH' LEAPED OUT AND. . . . DISAPPEARED THROUGH THE TOBACCO FIELD."
(CUE: COMMERCIAL: 30 SEC.)
COMMERCIAL:, , , "FRIENDS,. ,. DOES YOUR CIGARETTE TASTE DIFFERENT, LATELY?"
I remember about fifteen years ago when the final item on a network news
report was the tragic story that one of Bobby Kennedy's sons had had his leg
amputated. This sad report was followed by a singing commercial: "We've got
Leggs! We've got Leggs!!..."
And on another network newscast involving the Kennedy Family, this time
reporting on the funeral of Rose Kennedy. The announcer cut to an actuality
of the funeral, which turned out to be a circus steam calliope and a happily
cheering crowd! He was devastated and apologized twice for the inadvertent
miscue.
I heard both of these goofs; glad I was able to keep control of my [removed]
BILL KNOWLTON, "BLUEGRASS RAMBLE," WCNY-FM: Syracuse, Utica, Watertown NY
(since 1973) Sundays, 9 pm est: [removed]
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 13:39:16 -0500
From: "Ted Kneebone" <tkneebone1@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Mark 56 and ...
I recall this line of LP discs of radio programs. If memory is correct, I
recall one of the progrms was Archibald MacLeish's "Great American 4th of
July Parade." If that is true, I would really like to get a dub of that
program. It was done in 1976 on NPR to celebrate the centennial of the USA
by Strudwick and Geer. The Mark 56 (or whatever label) program featured
other actors.
Ted Kneebone / 1528 S. Grant St. / Aberdeen, SD 57401 / 605-226-3344
tkneebone1@[removed] | OTR: [removed]
[removed] |
[removed]
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 13:39:13 -0500
From: John Henley <jhenley@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Harpo and Murro
George Aust wrote:
It seems to me that there was a TV interview in
the 1950's with Harpo at home in Palm Springs. My memory may be faulty
but it seems to me that it was a Ed Morrow Person to "Person to Person"
show.
A portion of that appears in a Marx
documentary; in the part I saw, Harpo remained in
character throughout, with his wife Susan doing
all the talking.
For myself, I remember seeing as a child a TV
program hosted by Art Linkletter's son, Jack, in
which he would actually go to celebrities' homes
to interview them, rather than do it by video
as Murrow did. And even though I was just a kid
and didn't know from Marx Brothers - only about
a couple of old guys on TV called "Groucho" and
"Harpo" - still I remember that Harpo stayed in
character and even gave Jack a mildly hard time -
you know, giving him his leg and all that.
John
John Henley
Austin TX
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 13:39:11 -0500
From: John Henley <jhenley@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: re Jell-O
Roby McHone said,
I seldom see anything in The Digest about commercials. Those sales pitches
are still powerful, even 60 years, or more, later. My family sometimes gets
a craving for Jello after listening to Jack Benny.
Oh, I confess [removed]'ve tried a few of
those recipes Don Wilson reads at the end
of the 1936-and-beyond Jack Benny shows.
But I suspect that they've changed the formula,
because I also confess my results have been too
liquid. (Any suggestions?)
John
John Henley
Austin TX
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 13:39:10 -0500
From: John Henley <jhenley@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Chico's voice
"George Tirebiter" <tirebiter2@[removed]; wondered
...whether there are any recordings of Chico speaking in his normal speaking
voice ([removed] sans the fake Italian accent)?
It's not much, but in the Brothers' film
"Horse Feathers", there's a scene in which
Chico, as an ice man, tells customer Groucho
"Well, that's the last time we deliver ice
unless you pay the bill" - and it sounds to
me as if he dropped the accent for a second,
but they used the shot anyway.
It cuts to a different shot at that instant,
and the accent is firmly in place.
He gives the line a theatrical delivery in
any case - plenty of projection.
John Henley
Austin TX
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 13:56:59 -0500
From: "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: The cold shoulder?
Owens Pomeroy notes,
I am surprised that there are no musicians on the list that did not
catch the fact that Harpo played the [removed] the wrong shoulder! <<
You don't have to be a musician to notice that. However, he played it
well.
Roby McHone notes,
I seldom see anything in The Digest about commercials. <<
True enough. Commercials came in all sorts of types, from the dignified
old druggist explaining the virtues of Kolynos, to the very modern
sound-effect supported Cheerios commercials in the later Lone Ranger
shows, commercials were an integral part of many radio shows. Some, like
Fibber McGee & Molly, actually squeezed a commercial into the story of
the show. Others kept the commercials completely independent of the
show, such as Roma Wine for Suspense. Others straddled the fence,
particularly those in the Children's Hour, where a commercial might
complement the show, particularly by offering premiums, like the Dragon's
Eye Ring on Jack Armstrong.
Commercials occasionally were the subject of jokes. In one, a character
on a show indicated that a relative or acquaintance had a job, "...
pinching there girl who said, 'Ooooo! That Oxydol sparkle!'"
A good thread.
Lois Culver observes,
You might be interested to know that George's group did not pay a cent
to any of the artists on the shows which they so readily sold. <<
Interesting. Without George Garabedian's records, some of us wouldn't
have entered the hobby, which is a plus. Getting and selling freebies is
a minus.
Stephen A. Kallis, Jr.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 13:56:57 -0500
From: "Michael Ogden" <michaelo67@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Re: Orson Welles and prunes
The story about Orson Welles eating prunes before a broadcast contained the
following statements:
The 1937--38 season saw Orson Welles in the role of "The Shadow" >every
Sunday at 2pm [removed]
....he made a bee-line for the CBS men's room next door to the studio
where the broadcast was originating from.
...through the loud speaker in the studio he [the producer] heard,
.. ."who knows what [removed], in the hearts of men?" coming from >the
CBS men's room complete with the toilet stall echo!
Gee, those prunes must have affected Orson's mind as well as his intestines.
He seems to have been terribly confused that day. What was he doing at WABC
(CBS) when THE SHADOW was broadcast from WOR? What was he doing broadcasting
at 2:00 when THE SHADOW was actually broadcast at 4:00 (for the Yankee
network) and 5:30 (for Mutual)? And what was he doing speaking the words
"Who knows what [removed]" when, in fact, during the Welles season, a
recording of Frank Readick's voice (from the 1934-35 SHADOW series) was used
for the opening pronouncement?
Mike Ogden
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 17:05:51 -0500
From: Joe Salerno <salernoj@[removed];
To: OTR List <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: more on Tonto's horse
I have never heard an ep in which the horse is called Paint, but Scout was
described as a paint horse, which apparently is a variety and/or indicative
of his markings. I'm not an equestrian, I can hardly spell it.
Joe Salerno
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 17:05:54 -0500
From: Elliot S Ferber <otrcollector@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: 33-45-78
I have two 45 rpm records that contain four chapters of a show titled
Cecil and Sally, a show that aired on KYA in San Francisco from 1928 to
1932. The 45 rpm records were put out on a label titled "WHATEVER
WRECK-ARDS. On the jacket included with the records it says that the
company had found 156 episodes of this show and they are available on
cassette. This show was done in five minute broadcasts, so they were able
to fit onto a 45 rpm records.
--------------------------------
End of [removed] Digest V01 Issue #37
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