------------------------------
The Old-Time Radio Digest!
Volume 2002 : Issue 370
A Part of the [removed]!
ISSN: 1533-9289
Today's Topics:
Replies To Selected Posts in 2003,#3 [ James Hunt <jameshunt@[removed] ]
Me and my Shadow [ "Holm, Chris " <[removed]@delphiau ]
OTR recreations [ "Holm, Chris " <[removed]@delphiau ]
best and worst [ Bill Beard <wnbeard@[removed]; ]
List posting [removed] [ "Robert J. McKee" <mckee137@mindspr ]
FOTR Newark & Sperdvac convention [ Howard Blue <khovard@[removed]; ]
the SHADOW some more [ CHET <voxpop@[removed]; ]
Re: MGM Radio Movie Club [ Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed] ]
over/under [ "BirdWalk" <Birdwalk@[removed]; ]
Re:SMALLVILLE's Michael Tollin [ SanctumOTR@[removed] ]
Questions Re Lone Ranger Episodes [ "David H. Buswell" <dbuswell@rivnet ]
Singers on Comedy shows [ "rcg" <revrcg@[removed]; ]
Roses and Drums [ otrbuff@[removed] ]
Phillip Marlowe info needed [ "Rodney w bowcock jr." <rodney-self ]
Best vs Rest [ That Guy in LynnwOOd <thatguy77@yah ]
Orson Welles [ "alanladdsr" <alanladdsr@[removed] ]
SEcond Opinions [ "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@ ]
Underrated shows [ "Jim Widner" <widnerj@[removed]; ]
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 13:06:15 -0400
From: James Hunt <jameshunt@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Replies To Selected Posts in 2003,#368
Re: The Lone Ranger: Anthony Tollin writes about actors replacing John Todd
as Tonto. I did not realize
that oneof them was Louis Morango. This is the first time that i have heard
that name-in any context. I
would like to know more about him.
I have-on an mp3 disc-"The BraceBeemer Memorial"-aired shortly after Mr.
Beemer's death in 1963.
Host "J P McCarthy" asks Rollan Parker something to the effect if he subbed
for Todd most or nearly
all of the time. Parker answers that that was probably the case. But
remember this was recorded in '63.
Joe Salerno was asking asking about the horse sounds. It has been a while
since i have heard "The Beemer
Memorial" but as i recall this question drew a response from Most everyone
present-Parker,
Jay Micheal, Ernie Winstanley and Paul Hughes. The consesus among the
group-and I could be wrong-
was that-in this case-the sound of the horses' hooves was reproduced with
the use of plungers in a box full
of sand. At one end of the box were pebbles whereby the plungers were used
to represent the changes in terrain.
In certain situations the well known hand slapping of certain body
parts-chest, thighs. legs-was employed by
a sound man or even one of the actors. I welcome corrections, additional
details from anyone.
Micheal Prsakies lists "LR" as being an Underrated show. If one compares it
with "Gunsmoke" the Unequivecal
Answer is yes. Granted that listening Is In the perspective of what the
listener hears I can make No such comparison.
While many of the ranger scripts were trite many were also very well
done-with excellent character developement.
He vocalizes the extent of his knowledge of the series by referring to it as
a twice a week boadcast.
Again, as a fan of the of Mr. Stewart and Strictly as a faithful listener I
do not classify "The Six Shooter" as being underrated.
The writing, production values, acting all bear this out. The same applies
to "Tales of The Texas Rangers"
Don Hunt
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 13:09:07 -0400
From: "Holm, Chris " <[removed]@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Me and my Shadow
I've been thinking about the favorite Shadow thread, and I have to join with
the Welles camp. Here's why:
1) I like my heroes flawed. Consider Superman vs. Batman. Superman is
perfect, he's indestructible, and he's motivated by the noble beliefs of
truth and justice. He doesn't seem human, and therefore less interesting as
a character. Batman, on the other hand, is very human. He's driven by the
horrors of an early childhood trauma. Outside of Alfred and Robin, he can't
sustain any real relationships, and the only thing left in his life is an
unquenchable thirst for vengeance for the death of his parents. Batman isn't
a hero as much as he is a tragic figure, and that makes the character much
more interesting.
The Shadow is a similar character. Driven by guilt over the atrocities
he committed in the East (Nepal? Tibet?), he is desperately trying to make
up for his crimes. (BTW - I've always wondered if he did all this bad stuff
to the people of the East, why did he come to New York to try and cleanse his
soul? Shouldn't he tried to help the same people he hurt?) Anyway, it seems
to me that the earlier Shadow stories had this same flavor. He seems just a
little bit darker, a little bit crueler, a little bit more haunted. It's
hard to point to specifics, it just feels that way. Later Shadows feel more
like a frat boy who thought it might be fun to fight crime until it's time
for cocktails.
2) The early shows seem less formulaic. Later shows seem to follow a pattern
of two Shadow appearances. One around the middle of the show, and the second
at the finale. The specifics change, but the pattern always seems to remain.
Again, this just an impression.
3) The early shows just sound cooler. They're a little more scratchy.
Listening to them in dark, I can almost imagine myself in 1930's, in a house
warmed with Blue Coal, while a winter storm rages outside. Silly, but fun
for one born in 1974.
All of these reasons are entirely subjective, but then so are the reasons for
liking anything, I suppose.
-Chris Holm
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 13:09:18 -0400
From: "Holm, Chris " <[removed]@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: OTR recreations
For those of you in the Michigan area, you might want to check this out:
[removed]
Kirtland community college is hosting some OTR recreations. I don't know
anything about it, but plan on going to check it out.
-Chris Holm
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 17:51:29 -0400
From: Bill Beard <wnbeard@[removed];
To: "radio" <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: best and worst
Kenneth Clarke's list will stir up discussion.
Have Gun will Travel deserves to be on the best list.
And the greatest anthology series of all time wasnt' mentioned.
ESCAPE.
Bill Beard
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 17:51:36 -0400
From: "Robert J. McKee" <mckee137@[removed];
To: "Old Radio List" <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: List posting [removed]
Having been born in 1938 and growing up with a radio in
my room from the time I was about three or four (dad sold
and serviced radios) I have read many comments here
about the quality of programs.
It is my humble opinion that just about anything on the
radio beats today's fare on radio & TV. Radio makes
one think and stirs the imagination. A lot of the theme
and "background" music from those old theatre/studio
(call 'em WurliTzers if you will when they had pipes) was
my first exposure to classical [removed] and why music has
been an important part of my life, mostly as a listener.
The distorted highly compressed things that is called
music today is a poor excuse.
I remember after school I had to run home or to a friend's
home so we would be sure not to miss the ongoing
adventures of everything from Sky King to the Cisco Kid,
Green Hornet and many other names I have forgotten.
It was difficult waiting for the day the mail brought the
latest decoder ring or other involving accessory.
I think that is the secret that keeps us interested and
listening to relive those [removed] Radio involved us
completely and gave us messages. The good guys
ARE GOOD and should win out over evil. Then
as it became time for supper we awaited that familiar
phrase from Gabriel [removed] Ah, there is good news
tonight!!!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 17:51:48 -0400
From: Howard Blue <khovard@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: FOTR Newark & Sperdvac convention
I need two or three actors (amateurs or professionals) to help me out
with my presentations (about radio drama during World War II) in Newark
and [removed]
The presentations will feature excerpts from five or six wartime dramas.
In Newark, the presentation will be on Thursday, Oct. 24 at 2 PM
In Los Angeles, it will be on Saturday, Nov. 2 at 10:00 AM
Please contact me off-line.
Thanks,
Howard Blue
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 17:52:03 -0400
From: CHET <voxpop@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: the SHADOW some more
how come in this SHADOW thread no one has mentioned BRETT MORRISON?
just curious
chet norris
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 17:52:24 -0400
From: Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Re: MGM Radio Movie Club
Jim Cox wonders about --
MGM Radio Movie Club (1936)
This was a local show aired for many years over WHN, New York -- and
dates back at least to 1927. It had its origin in the family connection
between WHN and Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer: the station was owned during the
1920s by the Marcus Loew Booking Office, an arm of Loews Incorporated,
which also controlled MGM. A detailed description of a typical broadcast
can be found in the 6/23/27 issue of "New York Radio Program Weekly:"
"A minature movieland with its grinding camera behind which stood a real
camera man, a shouting director, and actors performing with the aid of
inspiring music was the realistic setting which was put on the air
through the microphone of WHN. All this was part of this station's weekly
movie club hour which can be heard every Monday at 7 pm.
"It is a typical movie fan feature and according to station reports and
the enthusiastic descriptions of M. Wolff, president of the Loew-Metro
Club, is proving a great favorite with the followers of the silent drama.
On this particular evening, the program was announced by Frank J.
Roehrenbeck, chairman of the Radio Movie Club, as it is known."
Other features on the program as of 1927 were "Hollywood Happenings," a
weekly movie news feature conducted by Phil Scheullein, "The Movie Answer
Man," a listener-question-box segment conducted by Ernie Morrell, and
interviews with MGM stars visiting in New York. Perhaps the most bizarre
segment of the program was the presentation of a silent film scene --
enacted in the studio to the accompaniment of mood music by Eli Danzig's
Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer orchestra, and vocally directed by Dave Howard.
Although actual performers acted out the scene -- all the listeners heard
was the music and the voice of the director putting the actors thru their
paces.
The only surviving recording of a program from this series dates to
2/21/36, and comes from a set of discs once owned by Johnny Green, the
songwriter/pianist/orchestra leader who is featured as guest artist on
the program. The program features a "News of Hollywood" segment by Radie
Harris, who interviews Green about his motion-picture work, and is, for
the most part, a musical-variety program plugging songs controlled by
MGM's music publishing companies.
Elizabeth
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 17:55:49 -0400
From: "BirdWalk" <Birdwalk@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: over/under
what do you all think are the most over rated shows in OTR?
off the top of my head, the first one that comes to mind is Fred
Allen. I LOVE Jack Benny but have never really 'got' Fred
Allen.
Fred had much that was related to that week's concerns, and while I find the
show interesting, there is much topical reference that is unintelligible to
me. Could this be why you do not like it?
Someone else mentioned 'Letters from Luigi' personal thoughts are that the
accent would become wearing after a while, but I find them quite touching
and wish many people born here loved the country and understood it as well
as this character
Somehow this terminology doesn't seem right to me. You either like a
show or
you don't. If enough people like a show, then I cant see how you can call
it
"overrated".
sounds somewhat elitist like the 'artists' crying that they don't get the
big bucks for splashing paint on a canvas while someone who understands
perspective gets the sales.
The openings of The Shadow, Grand Central Station, Tom Mix
Ralston Straight Shooters, The Lone Ranger, and Inner Sanctum Mysteries
may mean more than any individual episode of each of these shows.
at work one day, we started a discussion about openings that were good
without reference to the show itself. The Lone Ranger was agreed on by all.
Dallas was hotly disputed. {I would tune in for the opening and have yet to
see an episode} would anyone care to discuss this for either radio or the
flickering-noise-box
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 17:53:43 -0400
From: SanctumOTR@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Re:SMALLVILLE's Michael Tollin
In a message dated 9/24/02 12:14:31 PM, Joe Salerno asks:
Anthony, are you related to Mike Tollin who is a producer on the WB
Smallville?
***No, though I did work for DC Comics for 20 years, first as head
proofreader and assistant production manager, and later as a freelance color
artist on SUPERMAN, BATMAN, GREEN LANTERN, SUPERBOY, NEW TEEN TITANS, FLASH
GORDON, THE SHADOW STRIKES, DOC SAVAGE, CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS and many
other titles. Strangely, there are fewer than 100 Tollin households in the
United States, yet two unrelated people with that last name have worked on
the Man of Steel's adventures.
And two more coincidences: I was in on the creation of The Huntress who is
about to be featured in another Mike Tollin series on the WB, BIRDS OF PREY,
and I colored DC's THE PHANTOM, which was scripted by SMALLVILLE's
supervision producer, Mark Verheiden.
Actually, my family name was Peterson until the guards at Ellis Island told
my grandfather and his brothers that there were too many Petersons in the USA
and that they'd have to change it. Some relatives had died in a battle in
Touloun (sp?), France, so that's how we became Tollins. My father was a
longtime Associated Press editor (and briefly a broadcaster), and his brother
managed the Flamingo Club for Bugsy Siegel, but alas no movie/TV producers in
the family. --ANTHONY TOLLIN
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 17:56:06 -0400
From: "David H. Buswell" <dbuswell@[removed];
To: "OTR" <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Questions Re Lone Ranger Episodes
I address this to the resident LR experts. I listened the other evening to
two Radio Yesteryear episodes: (1) "A Page From Mr. Lincoln" broadcast
12/29/41 and (2) "The Masked Man and The Law" (broadcast 1/2/42). In both
instances the opening announcer's expository sequences were not by Fred Foy
and were not as I remember them, [removed], "Nowhere in the pages of history can
one find a greater champion of justice, etc." I was sure that Foy was in
place on those dates, but apparently not In addition, the musical opening
and some of the interludes seemed to me to be interminable. They went on
and on to the point that for a moment I thought I had stumbled upon a
symphonic program instead of the LR.
Can anyone comment on and explain these two observations?
BTW anent earlier postings about the LR music, in addition to the obvious
Rossini's William Tell, I detected snippets of varying length of
Mendelssohn's "Fingals Cave," Lizst's "Les Preludes" and Wagner's "Rienzi."
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 17:56:14 -0400
From: "rcg" <revrcg@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Singers on Comedy shows
I've been reading, with much interest, the comments concerning Dennis Day
and his songs on the Jack Benny show. Obviously, I can only speak for myself
but, when I was a kid, listening to the great radio comedians, I hated it
when the comedy was interrupted for musical numbers. I guess that the
prevailing thought was that the show needed a brief break from the comedy in
order to give the cast (and listeners) a chance to clear their minds a bit.
Of course, Dennis Day was a great asset to the program due to his wonderful
comic skills. But, when he started singing, it was time for me to take a
bathroom break or raid the refrigerator. I particularly disliked the fact
that on the Fibber McGee and Molly program, there were two breaks, one for a
vocal rendition by that horrible quartet, "The Kings Men" and another for an
instrumental by the Billy Mills orchestra. But, Fred Allen may have had the
worst singers of all time in the "DeMarco Sisters". I have to believe that,
all over America, water pressure dropped when they started their weekly
caterwauling.
It seems as if all of the major radio comedians had singers on their shows,
so most listeners must have enjoyed them. I remember Frances Langford on the
Bob Hope show, Dinah Shore with Eddie Cantor, Connie Hanes on Abbott &
Costello, and so many others.
As always, the above thoughts are simply, one man's opinion.
Gunner
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 17:56:41 -0400
From: otrbuff@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Roses and Drums
A statement appeared in digest volume #369 that on Sept. 24, 1933
"Radio's first dramatic presentation . . . was heard on WABC in New York
City. The program was titled, Roses and Drums." That is simply an
error.
Roses and Drums, a Civil War history, debuted on April 24, 1932 over CBS,
running on that network (which included flagship station WABC) through
June 3, 1934. It shifted to the Blue network from Sept. 9, 1934-March
29, 1936. So far as I can tell it was never a WABC-only program and it
certainly was on the air prior to 1933.
This is only part of the problem. Numerous dramatic presentations were
on the air before Sept. 24, 1933. I don't know if comedy is included in
most people's minds when they consider "dramatic presentations" but even
if one discounts programs like Sam 'n' Henry, Amos 'n' Andy, The Smith
Family, Vic and Sade, etc. there were already such "serious" dramas on
networks or local stations as The Rise of the Goldbergs, Clara Lu 'n' Em,
Moonshine and Honeysuckle, Painted Dreams, Judy and Jane, Betty and Bob,
Marie the Little French Princess, Today's Children, Just Plain Bill, Ma
Perkins, The Romance of Helen Trent, The Girl Who Lives Next Door, Little
Orphan Annie, Skippy, Stevens and Son of Scotland Yard, Empire Builders,
The Shadow of Fu Manchu, Sherlock Holmes, The Lone Ranger and many more.
There really is no way Roses and Drums could have been radio's first
dramatic presentation. The form was well established by the time it
reached the air.
Jim Cox
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 18:47:13 -0400
From: "Rodney w bowcock jr." <rodney-selfhelpbikeco@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Phillip Marlowe info needed
For a research project that I'm working on, I was hoping that someone
could provide me with yearly ratings for the Adventures of Phillip
Marlowe.
I'm also looking for any information that could help lead me to any
articles from the years that the show ran critically discussing the show.
thanks in advance!
rodney.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 00:12:01 -0400
From: That Guy in LynnwOOd <thatguy77@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Best vs Rest
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain
I'm not going to get into the argument, but my FAVORITE shows are:
The Six Shooter, Box 13, Bob & Ray, Stan Freburg, Mel Blanc's Fixit Shop.
Least favorite? None.
*** This message was altered by the server, and may not appear ***
*** as the sender intended. ***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 00:12:15 -0400
From: "alanladdsr" <alanladdsr@[removed];
To: "OTR message" <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Orson Welles
Jay Hickerson wrote about Orson Welles commentaries, were they available.
Ted Davenport's Radio Memories lists 8, 6/23/46-8/25/46, l5m ABC titled THE
LEAR SHOW. I have them and they are wondeerful. Welles talks about
discrimination in the south in a way that, for 1946, must have been very
courageous. Sound is fine, too.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 00:12:30 -0400
From: "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: SEcond Opinions
Well, as noted by everybody, "best" and "worst" shows are totally
subjective. Omitting one's "special" show(s), the best one can really do
is say what strikes one, for good or ill, about a show.
Kenneth Clarke noted some shows he put in his "worst" category. I'll
explain why I like some.
"Bob and Ray"<<
This is a matter of one's sense of humor, and different people have
different perspectives. Bob and Ray were innovative in their approach to
humor. Their ":ad" where they were selling sweaters at a discount, and
the only problem was that they all were emblazoned with the letter "O,"
so if the listener bought one, the legal department was prepared to have
the listener legally change his or her name to begin with an O ,,, that
was innovative.
"Chandu, the Magician"<<
Well, there was more than one version of it. The one I heard (the
postwar half-hour series) wasn't at all bad. Its sound effects made one
experience the feeling of the Mideast. The characters were believable,
including the brother-sister interplay between Frank Chandler and Dorothy
Regent, the understated romance between Chandler and Princess Nadji, and
the colorful natives, was all to the good. The examples of Chandler's
magic spells were a little elementary, but the program was a
drama/adventure, not a class on occult subjects.
"Pete Kelly's Blues".<<
This was a wonderful mixture of jazz and Prohibition-age drama, with
pulpish narration by Webb. Regrettably, not too many of these shows
exist. But IMO, listening to one is to get a flavor of the Roaring 20s.
"Hop Harrigan"<<
This wasn't the greatest of shows, but IMO, nowhere near the bottom of
the barrel (try "Speed Gibson of the International Secret Police" before
knocking "Hop Harrigan"). It was aimed at a young audience, and there it
succeeded well.
As I say, a matter of opinion.
Stephen A. Kallis, Jr.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 00:12:52 -0400
From: "Jim Widner" <widnerj@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Underrated shows
KenwynSteel says:
Under-rated:
2) Night Beat - Ditto, Frank Lovejoy very under-rated as a radio voice.
Not only that, the scriptwriter is very, very good. The shows are
excellent human interest stories for the most part with a strong sense
of a dark mood.
There were some excellent radio writers doing the scripts including
David Ellis, E. Jack Neuman and John Michael Hayes.
--------------------------------
End of [removed] Digest V2002 Issue #370
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