Subject: [removed] Digest V01 #137
From: <[removed]@[removed]>
Date: 5/4/2001 6:34 AM
To: <[removed]@[removed];

------------------------------


                      The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                         Volume 01 : Issue 137
                   A Part of the [removed]!
                           ISSN: 1533-9289


                           Today's Topics:

 OTR COMPARISON; UK VS. [removed]          ["Owens Pomeroy" <opomeroy@[removed]; ]
 oldest radio station in the world?   [Donna Halper <dlh@[removed]; ]
 Time delays                          ["Richard Pratz" <[removed]@home]
 Re: AT&T and Western Union Lines     [Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed]]
 Re: Long-Running Roles               [StevenL751@[removed]                 ]
 Info query                           [Mel Jenkins <meljenkins@logicsouth.]
 Network Lines                        [William L Murtough <k2mfi@[removed];]
 West, or East Coast                  ["Walden Hughes" <hughes1@[removed];]
 War In The Oxide Trenches            [Elmer Standish <elmer_standish@telu]
 Sign Off Lines                       ["Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@]
 10-second delay broadcasting         ["Frank Phillips" <frankphi@hotmail.]
 "Raised On Radio"                    ["Philip Railsback" <philiprailsback]
 tape delays                          ["Art Shifrin" <goldens2@[removed]]
 The Pop Chronicles                   [Tom and Susan Kleinschmidt <tomkle@]
 Tape delays                          ["Mark Kinsler" <kinsler33@[removed]]
 Re: Old Collectors                   [Fred Berney <berney@[removed];      ]
 Show re-enactments                   [DBacca@[removed]                   ]
 Sign off lines                       [Al Girard <agirard@[removed]]
 Tape delay                           ["A. Joseph Ross" <lawyer@[removed].]
 Lone Ranger Tapes                    [Wwtom@[removed]                      ]

______________________________________________________________________

    ADMINISTRIVIA:

       Mail this weekend might be a little delayed; nothing
       should "go missing," but some posts might be delayed an
       issue, so don't panic if mail into [removed] seems a
       little sluggish over the weekend.

______________________________________________________________________


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 10:06:51 -0400
From: "Owens Pomeroy" <opomeroy@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  OTR COMPARISON; UK VS. [removed]

      Why is it that the countries like UK, Australia, South Africa, and
Canada, have far superior (OTR) programming than we do or did.  Where did we
go wrong, that it simply disappeared from the airwaves?  I am sure the
listeners in these countries approve of this type of programming, or it
would have "died" when ours did.  They must be doing something right to
still have quality radio over there. I can remember when I worked at the
local NPR Station in Baltimore, we were getting such imports from you Brits
such as: Around The Horn, Capt. Horatio Hornblower, Sherlock Holmes, etc.

      The Canadians have wonderful show called Royal Canadian Air Farce that
is still running up there on radio as well as the TV version. I sure would
like some of you in those countries to tell us what the story is.  I know
that some commercial-free programs are per-per-listen - but I would be
willing to do even that to insure a return to quality radio programming.
What is your opinion?

Owens L. Pomeroy

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 10:52:20 -0400
From: Donna Halper <dlh@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  oldest radio station in the world?

it was asked--

Can you tell me what the oldest radio broadcasting station in the world is
and where it is located? Thank you for you time.

I can tell you who it was NOT-- it was not KDKA, no matter what they
say.  There were a number of stations on the air before KDKA, including
stations in Medford Hillside MA (1XE, later WGI) and Detroit (8MK, later
WWJ).  Up in Canada, XWA (later CFCF) was on the air in 1919, and I recall
reading that a station in Argentina also broadcast in 1919.  This is
something we may never truly know, since there were no audiotapes back then
and few American newspapers wrote extensively about broadcasting.  KDKA
does hold the distinction of being one of the oldest stations still using
the same call letters, but since a number of ham radio stations were
playing music and doing what we think of today as "professional" broadcasts
(which were permitted till February of 1922, when the government ruled that
hams could no longer broadcast programs of music and sports) in a number of
countries, we may never know the definitive answer.  Some historians would
suggest Charles "Doc" Herrold, who operated a station at his college in San
José circa 1909-12, and that is certainly among the earliest-- and I
believe a descendent of it is still on the [removed]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 11:51:37 -0400
From: "Richard Pratz" <[removed]@[removed];
To: "OTR (Plain Text Only)" <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Time delays

Continuing the thread of discussion regarding "time delays" on radio, I
thought I'd pass along how it was done at my first little teapot 5,000 watt
station in 1959. At KBUR in Burlington, Iowa "The Voice of
Burlington-On-The-Mississippi" serving Southeastern Iowa and Western
Illinois (if the wind was blowing in the right direction).....our Chief
Engineer (he was the only one!) Cletus [removed] a time delay I've
never seen before or since. (I've never heard the name Cletus before or
since either!)  We used wire recorders. The wire ran off one reel up to the
ceiling where it ran over a pulley, over to another pulley, and back down to
the other [removed] a loop and a manual 7-second delay!  Had we had
higher ceilings, perhaps the delay would have been longer! This high-tech
system  worked fine for years, except for the few times the wire broke! What
a mess that was with wire all over the control room floor until the two ends
could be found and tied back together! And of course when the knot ran over
the playback head (if it didn't get stuck) it created a mighty loud "CLICK"!
What a red-letter day it was at KBUR when we finally 86'd the wire and got
tape! It's amazing the things that went on at small stations to keep
programming on the air. And to keep employees cool on those hot Iowa
summers, I'd often take a break in my news duties to go up on the roof and
hose it down to cool off the building. I remember recording Paul Harvey on
that wire recorder to play back at [removed] 40-years later I was still
recording Mr. Harvey but digitally via computer for playback at the final
station for which I worked. And he's STILL going strong!

I enjoyed reading Michael Biel's recalling of Northwestern University's WNUR
in 1970.  On this digest I can now add Michael to the list of WNUR graduates
along with Sam Levene and others. An [removed] alumni myself, I don't know to
this day how I avoided [removed] I'll always regret. Instead, WNMP in
Evanston hooked me around 1957.

GOTTA LOVE THIS DIGEST!

Rich

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 12:02:17 -0400
From: Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Re: AT&T and Western Union Lines

Larry Dunham wonders,

I vaguely remember hearing in a broadcast course I took in college -- it's
been almost 30 years, so the memory is a bit hazy -- that the NBC Red and
Blue Networks used different physical networks, as if one would use [removed];T.
and the other was using another company like ITT or Western Union, or one was
on a telephone network and the other used a converted telegraph network.  Can
anyone comment?

This was true during the pre-NBC years. The original Red Network, in
operation from 1924-26, grew out of AT&T's early chain broadcasting
experiments in 1923 -- and it used AT&T lines since, of course, it was an
AT&T project. These years were a period of bitter competition over patent
issues between AT&T and RCA, and when RCA began operating its rival
network, the "Radio Group," AT&T refused to provide service linking the
stations. Thus RCA was forced to use Western Union and Postal Telegraph
Company circuits for its chain. When RCA bought out AT&T's broadcasting
interests in 1926 and turned them into NBC, part of the deal was that
AT&T would provide circuits for both networks. The formal changeover from
the telegraph lines to the AT&T circuit was January 1, 1927 -- the date
which marked the official conversion of the informal Radio Group network
into the NBC Blue network.

The CBS situation was a bit more complicated. Given its new relationship
with RCA, the phone company was not enthusiastic about providing line
service to a competitor, and it was necessary for network founder George
Coats to call in several political chips. Coats told historian Gleason
Archer that he used his Washington connections to threaten Interstate
Commerce Commission action against AT&T unless his new network got the
service it wanted. Coats got quick results, and the new network had AT&T
service from the beginning.

Ed Wynn's ill-fated Amalgamated Broadcasting System wasn't so fortunate.
Given the dubious financing of the new chain, and perhaps due also to
corporate pressure from RCA and CBS, AT&T refused to provide circuits
when the new chain was being organized in 1933, so it was forced to make
due with Western Union lines during the five weeks it was in operation.
"Broadcasting" magazine observed that the audio quality of these circuits
was notably inferior to AT&T lines -- and while this is no doubt true,
it's also likely that the magazine's comments were influenced by the
editorial contempt that it had for the "slipshod amateur" operation that
Wynn and his colleagues were running.

Elizaeth

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 12:14:10 -0400
From: StevenL751@[removed]
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Re: Long-Running Roles

In a message dated Thu, 3 May 2001 10:36:00 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[removed]@[removed] writes:
Subject:  Re: Long-Running Roles

25 years -- Page Gilman (Jack Barbour) 1933-43, 1946-60

You've now got me curious about the dates you gave for Page Gilman.  As far
as I know, One Man's Family went off the air in 1959, so how did he continue
playing the role for another year?

Also, I'm assuming the gap you gave in his years was while he (and his
character) was serving in the armed forces, but didn't he occassionally make
appearances on the show during those years when he/Jack was home on leave?

Steve Lewis

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 15:05:54 -0400
From: Mel Jenkins <meljenkins@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Info query

At the top of my agenda, any and all information about the "Princess Pet"
radio series. This was a promotion for Pet Dairy's products that ran as a
fantasy series for young kids. It would date from late 40's to early 50's.

Your knowledge of when and what stations, any archived or collected
materials, will be helpful.

Mel Jenkins
Columbia, SC

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 15:05:52 -0400
From: William L Murtough <k2mfi@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Network Lines

Larry Dunham questioned my posting about network lines. NBC did use
physically seperate networks, labeled Red and Blue. However they were
both [removed];[removed] When the phone company originated the two networks, they
were designated as "Red" and "Blue" because their engineers drew the
charts with red and blue pencils. All the networks used [removed];T. While at
WOV in New York I fed Italian language soap operas to our owned and
operated station in Philadelphia via a Western Union line. It was an open
pair with no repeaters. I pre-equalized the line and fed it with a high
powered amplifier which was designed to feed a loudspeaker. We had a
morse telegraph set  (key and sounder) from the center tap of the
secondary of the line transformer for communication.  As the line
followed the Central Railroad of New Jersey "rite-of-way" along with
their dispatcher communication lines, there was some cross-talk problems
on wet days. (I hope their dispatchers understood Italian).The "home
built" amplifier feeding the line was the only piece of equipment that
was left over from the old WOV. One morning it bit the dust midst smoke
and flames. At that very moment the receptionist phoned me saying that
there was a package for me at the front desk. It was the replacement
amplifier from RCA.  I was finally convinced that I had a guardian angel
looking after me.

Mutual, Inter-City, Colonial, Yankee, CBS, NBC all were [removed] & T. I speak
from experience. I have fed them all at one time or another. Local
connecting lines between the stations and the test board could be other
than Bell depending on the location.

Bill Murtough

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 16:36:00 -0400
From: "Walden Hughes" <hughes1@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  West, or East Coast

A few years ago I mention to some people that the West Coast had more comedy
show than the East Coast, but they disagreed with me.  Today I still feel
that way.  I would guest that was not the way in the early 1930s, but when
NBC open it's Hollywood studio in 1937, I would think Hollywood would have
been the major force in comedy shows because of the radio studios, and the
movies, Walden.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 18:33:26 -0400
From: Elmer Standish <elmer_standish@[removed];
To: Old Time Radio Digest <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  War In The Oxide Trenches

[removed]#anchor2099914
Quite an article on OTR if it's not been posted already.
Allows Text Download of complete article or read it online in
parts.

====> ELMER

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 18:33:28 -0400
From: "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Sign Off Lines

Happy Landings!

Stephen A. Kallis, Jr.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 19:07:49 -0400
From: "Frank Phillips" <frankphi@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  10-second delay broadcasting

Well, it finally happened - I have become a part of OTR.,

I worked for several stations (in the '70s) and used delays for call-in
shows. The most prominent way to delay a show in small market stations was
to use a continuous loop cartridge tape. The cartridges were loaded with
standard reel-to-reel tape and a secondary tone on one-half of the tape told
the machine to stop when the tape was cued up. The "sec" tone was recorded
when the recording began.

Some station engineers disabled the sec tone with a switch, so a 10 second
continuous loop tape would record, play through the catridge and then hit
the playback head some 7-10 seconds later. The cartridges played at 3 3/4
inches per second. They were developed in Bloomington, Ill., at a company
that owned a radio station there. I attended school down the road (down [removed]
66, actually) in Lincoln, Ill. and I was able to tour the station and see
the latest cartridge equipment.

Later, in the '90s, I did many hours of call-in shows on WCVL-WIMC radio,
Crawfordsville, Ind. Never had a problem with profanity on the air.

Frank Phillips

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 21:07:28 -0400
From: "Philip Railsback" <philiprailsback@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  "Raised On Radio"

I read Nachman's book when it came out.  Liked it a lot.  My memory of his
discussion of Amos and Andy is different from yours.  As I recall, he
defended the show.

Overall I thought the book was very positive toward OTR.  I also liked his
more personal approach to radio.  Other than the numerous factual errors, I
thought it was a wonderful book.

  - Philip

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 21:14:52 -0400
From: "Art Shifrin" <goldens2@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  tape delays

Hi Mike,

One recorder can indeed yield a mutli-second delay.  This is how it's done:

the heads are configured (from left to right) PLAY ERASE RECORD.

various guides are added to the tape path so that a closed loop of tape runs
the desired time of the delay ([removed] 75 inches for ten seconds at [removed] ips)

When recorded, the tape's played back 75 inches from the record head (as the
tape travels) & is continually re-erased & recorded over.

I'm sure that the 16 ips cited was a typographical error.

As for using two tape machines, before the availability and cost
effectiveness of digital delays, 2" quadraplex video tape machines were used
to achieve comparable delays: one machine feeding its tape in a trough to
the second. Recording was done one one & palyback, on the other.

Best,
Shiffy
website: [removed]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 23:26:17 -0400
From: Tom and Susan Kleinschmidt <tomkle@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  The Pop Chronicles

Hello All,

	Is anyone on the digest familiar with the show The Pop Chronicles
hosted
by John Gilliland(sp)? I recently pulled out my reel tapes of the show with
the idea on converting them to CD's. Unfortunately the sound quality isn't
as good as I would like. Does anyone have a good sounding copy of this
great documentary? I got my copy from Pay McCoy of McCoy's Recording's,
does anyone know of another source? Also if anyone is familiar with the
show I have several questions:

1)Near the end of the first hour of the show John states that there are 11
hours to go, yet the reels I have total about 16 hours with most of the
commercials edited out. Does anyone know the original length?

2)I have heard that the show was originally broadcast in 1972 and updated
in 1976. Can anyone confirm this?

3)The broadcast was from KSFO in San Francisco, does anyone know if this
was strictly a local show or was it syndicated nationally?

4)I know Chuck Shaden broadcast a shorter version of the show a few year's
back and The Mind's Eye released a 4 cassette set that was disappointingly
edited down.

5)There are many old time radio show segments used in the documentary, but
some sound like recreations. Does anyone know what was really used?


	I really hope someone can help me. Thanks.


Tom

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 23:26:19 -0400
From: "Mark Kinsler" <kinsler33@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Tape delays

At WTSO in 1971 we did the tape delay with two Magnecord reel-to-reel
recorders mounted next to each other in a rack at the transmitter, which was
perhaps 20 miles from the studio.  This gave us however much delay that the
separation of the record head of one and the play head of the other would
yield.  Sherman Stern, the most patient chief engineer on the planet, had
commissioned a circuit that allowed the talk-show host to cut off evil
comments from the inebriated callers by pressing a button at the studio.
This was just as well, because the more amateur of the engineers ([removed], me)
out at the transmitter tended to miss the worst stuff.  It must be a heck of
a lot easier nowadays when there's someone else to pre-screen the calls.

My particular talent was to mount a tape in the two tape machines, start the
machines and set the levels so that the show seemed to be going along just
fine.  Only it wasn't: we re-used tapes, rotating through a stack of perhaps
fifteen 10" reels stacked on the shelf.  So if you didn't push the "record"
button on the machine that fed the tape to the delay, you'd be playing a
show from a couple of weeks ago.  It always took a while for the show host
and/or engineer to realize this.  A push of the "record" button would set
things straight, and we'd never get a comment from anyone.

M Kinsler
former boy engineer

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 00:31:22 -0400
From: Fred Berney <berney@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Re: Old Collectors

I tried to think of a better subject, but this was short and to the point.
By "old" I don't necessarily mean old in years, only old in having been
collecting for a very long time.

The other day, I was going through my files and came across several file
folders of OTR collectors. These were people that I use to trade with back
in the 1970s. Except for one or two, I've lost touch with most of them and
was wondering if any of them may be lurking out there or someone may know
of their whereabouts.

Bob Karon - The last address I had for Bob was in Randolph, Mass.
Tony Tropila - He lived in Edison, NJ back then.
Robert Jones - Evanston, IL
Don Fisher - Bennington, VT
Mark Evans - Beverly Hills, CA
Jerry Chapman - NIU Dekalb, ILL - I think I got most of my Captain Midnight
Shows from Jerry
John Brennan - San Francisco, CA
Tom Carpenter - Decatur, GA
Bob Burnham - Livonia, MI - I think I ran into Bob a few years ago in
Cincinnati, but didn't keep in touch

Believe it or not, I kept all of our correspondence and even have their
catalogs. No wonder I'm running out of room in my house.

If any of you guys are out there, please email me. I'd love to hear from you.


Fred
For the best in Old Time Radio Shows [removed]
New e-commerce page [removed]

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 00:46:36 -0400
From: DBacca@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Show re-enactments

I totally agreed with the comments on this subject by Mr. Kneebone a few
issues back. Considering the number of fans in the otr community for the
programs mentioned, I have to believe that such a re-enactment, if
presented right, could be made viable. Granted, it would be a bit more
challenging, but it could also be much more rewarding for those
involved. While I am on the subject, aside from the ILAM remakes, what
others have been done?   Dan

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 00:46:38 -0400
To: [removed]@[removed]
From: Al Girard <agirard@[removed];
Subject:  Sign off lines

"Good night, all."  - Molly McGee

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 01:26:00 -0400
From: "A. Joseph Ross" <lawyer@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Tape delay

Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 10:06:05 -0400
From: Michael Biel <mbiel@[removed];

16 ips sure is an unusual speed! :-)  Having only one recorder running
would not set up a delay.  The tape would have to be looped over to a
second machine to play the tape for the delayed airing.

Yes, I remember seeing that done when I was in college radio back in the
1960s.  As I recall, 15 ips was the highest tape speed available on our
equipment in those days.  I don't know what speed was used to make the
tape delay during call-in programming.  Nor do I remember anyone actually
saying things that needed to be censored.  Today, I think that station
takes calls from time to time without tape delays.  Then again, these
days, anything goes, especially on college radio.  I listen to the station
sometimes on the Web, and I'm often amazed at the frankness of some of the
discussions about sex.

 A. Joseph Ross, [removed]                        [removed]
 15 Court Square                     lawyer@[removed]
 Boston, MA 02108-2503      [removed]~lawyer/

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 08:20:35 -0400
From: Wwtom@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Lone Ranger Tapes

Does anyone know if the 60 show collection of the Lone Ranger offered by
Radio Spirits is available at any of the major discount stores such as Sam's,
or Costco?  If anyone has already obtained this collection, what do you think
about the story lines in this set?

Wesley Tom
Redlands, CA

--------------------------------
End of [removed] Digest V01 Issue #137
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