Subject: [removed] Digest V01 #116
From: <[removed]@[removed]>
Date: 4/14/2001 9:10 PM
To: <[removed]@[removed];

------------------------------


                      The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                         Volume 01 : Issue 116
                   A Part of the [removed]!
                           ISSN: 1533-9289


                           Today's Topics:

 Bob & Ray Project--the Sequel        [Sheryl Smith <sheryllsmith@earthlin]
 [removed] Phaneuf (In Emulation of  ["David Phaneuf" <dphaneuf@[removed]]
 Quality And Collecting               ["Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@]
 Little SSir Echo                     ["Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@]
 Collectors differ                    ["Ken Kay" <kenwyn@[removed];   ]
 Cincinnati Covnention                ["Bob Burchett" <haradio@[removed]]
 Eddie Green                          ["igsjr@[removed]" <igsjr@[removed];  ]
 Letter From America - Hear it on PRI [KENPILETIC@[removed]                 ]
 Re: echo sound                       [ArtsMilitaria@[removed] (Arthur Fun]
 [removed] Goldin's index               ["Ted Kneebone" <tkneebone1@[removed]]
 Free OTR book                        ["Martin Grams, Jr." <mmargrajr@hotm]
 Degredation of Sound                 [HERITAGE4@[removed]                  ]

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 00:11:46 -0400
From: Sheryl Smith <sheryllsmith@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Bob & Ray Project--the Sequel

Since the last time I posted here about my Bob & Ray project, so many
people have come forward with help that much progress has been made in
an abbreviated timeframe.  I've had wonderful stuff dropped on me from
guys in Germany and England, among other places, and a major collector
in LA is allowing us to transfer his holdings to digital format.  First
Generation Radio Archives is providing expert help, and I'm still
following threads through Internet-land in search of information and
whatnot.  So many radio people have been generous to the project in some
form or another-because radio spawns nice people and because so many
radio people are Bob & Ray fans!  I'm having a great time so far-and my
database of complete shows with confirmed or semi-confirmed dates is
growing.

So I trust Charlie will let me run by you again what I'm doing.  I'm
trying to find out and hopefully locate all the complete Bob & Ray shows
that are still around. My hope is to transfer them to digital audio to
make sure we preserve everything we still have. Larry Josephson, their
NPR producer who runs their official site, is keeping a database of
skits used in his (wonderful!) collection tapes, but he doesn't know how
many complete shows are still in existence.  I think it's important to
find this out because even though Bob & Ray reused a lot of material,
they improvised to such an extent that only the complete shows can give
us a sense of how much original material they actually created.  And I
think we need to find this out, because so much of it is still funny.'

The greatest gaps in material are still the early to middle 50s.  I
don't even have a completely reliable chronology of where they worked
and when, but from late 1951 when they started with NBC in New York to
mid-1959 when they started the elegant run of 15-minute shows for CBS is
still fairly blank.  I've got skits that may fit in there someplace, and
a few complete shows, but not a whole lot:  and since they were
sometimes on the radio several times a day during that period, we're
probably missing a lot by not having it.  The many real commercials they
produced over the years, for Piel's Beer and so forth, are also
poorly-represented-and to judge from what I've heard, their real
commercials are as funny as anything else they did, so it would be great
to have more of them around.

I'm in pretty good shape with the WHDH shows-though we can't ever have
too many of them, and I'm also looking for more info on WHDH in
general.  The CBS shows from 1959-60 are more problematic right now.
I'm working from strings of them that were transferred en mass to MP3
and identified only by their locations on the original reel.  A lot of
1959 seems to be present, but there are very few definite dates and I've
only got a rough sequence for many of them.  And 1960 seems to be
sparsely populated so far.  If anyone has shows, or info that relates
show contents to dates, I'd love to get that.

I'm also looking for information on Bob & Ray of any sort.  There seems
to be very little in writing, much of it based on only a few original
sources, and some of it too sparse to evaluate:  so any glimpse of their
working lives could be valuable.  I keep asking if anyone has ever done
an oral history interview with Bob Elliott on his experiences in radio,
and the answer keeps coming back no-which is an omission I hope one of
the OTR organizations or broadcast museums will fix one of these days.

Thanks again for listening, and for helping.

Sheryl Smith
Sillycon Valley Testing Geek

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 09:53:47 -0400
From: "David Phaneuf" <dphaneuf@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  [removed] Phaneuf (In Emulation of Peter
 Appleyard's subject line)

Steve Kallis, Jr., commenting on Gloria Barber's comment on something I had
posted states:
Gloria, responding to Dave Phanehuf's . . . .

Gloria Barber had written:
. . . .Thank you David Pharneuf!

Now I just want to say HAT'S OFF to both Steve and Gloria.  Both of you came
up with two totally original misspellings of my last name, and I love you
both for it.  All my life I have had to spell it to EVERYONE, and rather
than be offended, I have thoroughly enjoyed seeing the many ways people
butcher my last [removed] and these two are totally and undeniably
original!!!  Thank you.

(Actually, Steve, you should know better, as much as we have corresponded
about the good Captain! -- but I really can't fault you.  Hardly a day goes
by that I don't have to go back and correct my own typos of my own last
name!)

[removed] for the REAL meat of my message!

1st , THANKS to those of you who responded to my query about who the OTR
veterans were.  Evidently not as many as I thought might be out there -- or
you are being quiet about it (maybe with good reason, for I believe that
poor Hal Stone was evidently inundated with email when he made himself known
on the sister newsletter, OldRadio Digest).  But those who are out there --
you have my respect.  I envy you.  I would love to have been able to
experience OTR from your perspective, and I hope you will continue to
enlighten us with your knowlege, and your memories.  I read voraciously
everything you write to the Digest.

2nd, a popular term these days with POP MUSIC is "boy groups" and "girl
groups" -- referring to such popular groups as the Back Street Boys, 'NSync,
TLC etc. (For those of you who have no idea what I'm talking about, don't
worry, it's [removed] I have two teenage daughters in the house and I'm
inundated with their style of music.)  Well, my favorite all time "girl
group" is/was the Andrews Sisters.

Somebody mentioned to me that the Sisters had their own radio show, so I
went to Dave Goldin's "The Golden Age of Radio" and he gives the number of
62 appearances on OTR shows, and lists "Eight-to-the-Bar-Ranch" and several
other shows (which I assume the divas hosted?????)  Do any of these shows
still exist?  And are they available to the public? And what are some of the
other shows they appeared [removed] I know Bing's, for sure, but what else?
And how does one get a listing of what shows they had guest spots on?

Wishing I was [removed]
Dave [removed] er, that's [removed] er, [removed]
Aw, forget it.  You know who I am!

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 09:53:49 -0400
From: "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Quality And Collecting

I'm cautious about using the word "compromise."  However, Fred Berney
notes,

When cleaning up any sound there is compromise. Care should be taken
not to generate more anomalies into the finished material than there were
at the start. The goal should be a sound that is comfortable to listen
to. <<

I have to jump in, I hope to clarify upon Fred's concept rather than
criticizing it.  If a sound recording needs cleaning up, and with a lot
of old recordings, this is essential, then cleaning up is just that.
Philosophically, the very noise inherent in the "original" ([removed], noisy)
recording is already below the standard the person who cleans it up is
trying to reach.

Not veering off-topic although it may seem so for a second, on the OTV
program, Your Show of Shows, there was a really great skit I wish had
made to tape called "A Stranger In Danger."  It was a spy spoof, and the
Secret Weapon everyone wanted turned out to be a bomb that killed only
the bad guys, leaving the good guys unharmed.

Now ideally, a sound-cleanup technique would be something like that bomb.
 It would get rid of any noise or distortion while leaving everything
else untouched.  But such an ideal is a pleasant concept, but
unattainable with any known technique of noise removal.

So the goal should be to come out with the optimum cleanup. This means
that som,ewhere there has to be some level of noise or distortion left,
or some loss of overall fidelity.  But that isn't compromise; it's
optimization.

... And while we're on the subject, in _collecting_ OTR programs, the
goal for the archivist is to get perfect, studio-quality, recordings of
the original broadcasts.  But if a noisy, several-generations-removed
recording of an old show is the only known copy, IMHO, an archivist
should add it to his or her archives, just because it's better to have
_some_ recording of a broadcast rather than none.  It might make an
interesting exercise to discuss whether any sound cleanup should be done
to the recording before adding it to the archives, but that it should be
added in some form seems pretty self=evident.

Stephen A. Kallis, Jr.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 09:53:51 -0400
From: "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Little SSir Echo

Fred Berney, commenting on a report of a Lone Ranger with pronounced
echo, noted,

This may have been the case, but back in the 1960's, AM radio stations
were looking for things to make listeners tune to their station. In
Miami, WQAM, which happened to broadcast The Lone Ranger, decided to
broadcast everything through an echo [removed];<

Adding an echo started earlier than that.  In 1958, one of the pop music
AM stations in New York [I forget the call letters; I listened to little
AM then] had an announcement that they were going to broadcast in a
brand-new, higher-quality, sound commencing one specific Monday.  I was
interested in  audio sound, and tuned in to see how they could improve
the sound of existing radios.  Needless to say, they'd added echo.  They
were very proud of themselves, indicating that soon there would be
"copycat stations," but that they were the best.

Fred notes,

It added a unique sound to music, but sounded bad when putting a
dramatic program through the process. <<

The only place it was really effective in that New York City station was
in the announcers' deliveries.  Adding an echo, even to music, isn't
always smart.  Particularly when the record may already have its own
echo.

Stephen A. Kallis, Jr.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 09:53:54 -0400
From: "Ken Kay" <kenwyn@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Collectors differ

Reading all the entries to this digest about what is the best way to record
or copy OTR makes me realize that I am different than a lot of you
collectors.  I am not a purest.  I do not collect OTR to try to get the best
possible sound quality.  I don't really care how an MP3 file is recorded.  I
don't care if it's at 128 kps, 320 kps or whatever kps.  I collect because I
love to listen to the old shows.  Of course, I enjoy a show when the sound
is crystal clear but not to the point where I don't enjoy a show that isn't.
I collected for years on cassette tape and was frequently disappointed with
shows that were hard to hear because of the bass/treble being too bassy and
the sound being muffled or the sound being too faint.  I now collect on CD
and have yet to listen to a show that was not easy on the ears.  Are there
any other "listeners" out there?

Ken Kay
Chula Vista, CA

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 09:53:56 -0400
From: "Bob Burchett" <haradio@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Cincinnati Covnention

For those coming to the convention thought you
might like a weather report.
     Thursday:  Partly Cloudy  high 59  low 43
     Friday:    Mostly Cloudy  high 67  low 48
     Saturday:  Showers  high 63  low 49
     Sunday:    Mostly Cloudy  high 70  low 52
Subject to change

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 12:12:57 -0400
From: "igsjr@[removed]" <igsjr@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Eddie Green

The Old Time Radio Digest's own Martin Grams, Jr. has written a really
top-notch series of articles in Sperdvac's RADIOGRAM tracing the history
of one of my favorite OTR comedies, DUFFY'S TAVERN (it even includes a
log for the show).  But something that was not in the article has been
nagging at me (and has been for many years)--whatever happened to Eddie
Green?  I've noticed he disappeared from the show just about the time Ed
Gardner moved the program to Puerto Rico but Green also disappeared from
AMOS 'N' ANDY about that time as [removed] got a lead on him?

Ivan

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 12:12:55 -0400
From: KENPILETIC@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Letter From America - Hear it on PRI

Hi Gang -                     April 14, 2001 - Saturday - 8:15 AM cdt

Three Hours Ago I confirmed that what I heard last week at 5:15 AM was
not a mistake.  It was on again this morning.  "Letter From America"
is now available in the [removed] on your regular radio.  You don't need a
shortwave receiver, and you don't need a satellite dish.

Just tune your radio to your local NPR station.  The PRI network,
(Public Radio International) is now providing the long-running (half a
century continuously) BBC program by Alistair Cooke every week.
Here in the Chicago area, PRI programming is broadcast on NPR
(National Public Radio), and presume NPR carries PRI throughout
the rest of the country as well.

I was once told that Mr. Cooke's fifteen minute broadcasts were never
intended to be heard in the United States.  His comments on the past
week's events are most enlightning, and I, for one, have been taping
his broadcasts from shortwave (BBC) for about 20 years, whenever
possible.

Fading signals, static crashes, and schedule changes make taping
from shortwave quite a challange.   Ten years ago, I got my C-Band
satellite dish, and was able to get a reliable signal from BBC, but I
still had to deal with schedule changes.

Now I find PRI and NPR broadcasting on Saturday mornings at 5:15
(Chicago time).  The WBEZ guide does not indicate this broadcast.
The guide merely states "BBC News" from 5 to 5:30 AM.   I hope they
don't decide to cancel this program because it was "not intended to
be broadcast in the [removed]"

This IS Old Time Radio, folks.  If you have never heard current topics
being discussed the same way current topics were broadcast in the
1940's, now is your chance.

If you have access to a shortwave receiver and/or a C-Band dish,
you can hear "Letter From America" at five other times each week.
These are:  Sat: 2:45 AM, 4:45 AM, 8:45 PM, Sun: 2:45 AM, Mon 5:30 AM.
All CDT (Chicago time).   I didn't want to confuse the issue with GMT.
Send me a private e-mail if you need the frequencies for BBC.

Oh yes, the program is probably available from BBC via the internet,
but I don't have that information.  I don't like "computer sound" anyway,
but that's another issue.

See you in Cincinnati -- Ken Piletic - Streamwood, Illinois
kenpiletic@[removed]

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 13:37:06 -0400
From: ArtsMilitaria@[removed] (Arthur Funk)
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Re: echo sound

Someone gave me a couple of Radio Spirits collections for Christmas and
I've only recently gotten to listen to them.  There is a very noticeable
echo on most of the cassettes.  Sometimes the echo is ahead of the audio
and sometimes it is behind the audio.

I would have expected this from cassettes I obtain from an amateur
dubber as myself.  But I expected better quality from a large company
such as Radio Spirits.

There were two faulty cassettes in one set --- on one the tape is jammed
and on the other the tape separated from the spindle at the end of side
one.  I emailed Radio Spirits about the problem about three weeks ago
and haven't had the courtesy of a reply

Art Funk

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 19:38:22 -0400
From: "Ted Kneebone" <tkneebone1@[removed];
To: "Old Time Radio Digest" <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  [removed] Goldin's index

A few issues back, someone posted the URL for J. David Goldin's updated
index to old time radio programs.  I saved the URL but it is only the title
page and won't let me go anywhere.  Does anyone have the correct URL so I
can use the index?

Personal note:  I became a grandpa for the third time April 7.  Brandon
Joseph weighed 7#, 20 oz. and was 20" tall on that day.  He fooled us at the
hospital with his small voice.  When he got home, he found his full lung
power!

Ted Kneebone / 1528 S. Grant St. / Aberdeen, SD 57401 / 605-226-3344
tkneebone1@[removed] | OTR:  [removed]

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 20:20:31 -0400
From: "Martin Grams, Jr." <mmargrajr@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Free OTR book

Happy Easter everyone!
About a year and a half ago, I acquired a box of audio casettes containing
nothing but interviews of radio stars and their radio work.  Although they
remain unpublished, I contacted the interviewer and asked them if they ever
considered having them published.  They told me they were highly interested,
and would do so under two conditions:
1.  That I type up the interviews because they don't have the time, which I
don't mind because I can spare the free time and I estimate about two months
to type them all onto my computer.  I already started.
2.  That I acquire permission from the actors/directors/writers themselves
OR their next of kin.  Same arangement was made by the publisher.  Sadly,
many of the actors have passed on, and that poses a challenge.

What is remarkable is the wealth of people interviewed, (you'll see when you
glance at the list).  If these interviews don't go to print, they will
forever remain on audio cassette in my box, and I'd personally rather see
them get into a book so the wealth of info can be shared by all.  So here's
the [removed]
Many of the surviving actors interviewed I already found but there are many
that still elude me (especially next of kin).  Figuring somebody out there
knows somebody who knows [removed]
Enclosed is a list of names of radio personalities I am attempting to find
(or their widow, or their son, daughter, etc.)  If ANYONE out there can
supply a name, address and/or phone number of next of kin or the actual
surviving actor, I'll personally mail a free complimentary copy of the book
if and when it gets published.  Even a sure-fire lead to someone who does
know that proves a success.  No catches in this.
Terms: first come, first serve on a name.  I will give multiple copies for
multiple address, but only for info I haven't gotten already by someone
else.  I can't afford to send 50 copies of the book to the same fifty people
who send me the same address to John Doe.
I am not looking nor interested in the copyright owner of any particular
radio program, only the actor themselves or their next of kin, so I can
write and get a written permission to have the interviews reprinted.

Carlton E. Morse           Anne Whitfield
Howard Duff                Dick Joy
Fletcher Markle            William N. Robson
Cliff Thorsness            Dennis Day
Sheldon Leonard            Berne Surrey
Hy Averback                Alice Faye
Nelson Olmstead            Lurene Tuttle
Olan Soule                 Paul Frees
Gale Gordon                Veola Vonn
George Fenneman            Elliott Lewis
E. Jack Neuman             Eve Arden
Alice Frost                Kenny Delmar
John Houseman              Victor Perrin
Phil Harris                Penny Singleton
Irene Tedrow               Marvin Miller
Larry Lesueur              John McVane
Frank Nelson               Clarence Hartzell
Morton Fine                Roland Kibbee
Jack Johnstone             Mary Jane Croft
Shirley Mitchell           Getrude Warner

You can e-mail me privately, and I won't trade or give addresses away to
anyone.  The book can only get printed if I get enough contacts, and believe
me, this is just the tip of the iceberg (I believe there are hundreds more
where these came from) so if the first book is a success, perhaps I'll
acquire access to the many more tapes I don't have.  The list above only
represents a fraction of what I have in hand.  Hopefully this will lead to
more interview books published afterwards.
(You ought to hear Kenny Delmar talk about how he had 400+ episodes of The
Fred Allen Show on transcription discs in his attic - until a fire burned
the house down!)
Let's all help keep OTR alive.

Martin Grams, Jr.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 21:49:08 -0400
From: HERITAGE4@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Degredation of Sound

Ted Davenport is absolutely right.  Many of us older dealers, broadcasters
and collectors know that compression is the enemy of fidelity.
Both Ted and I have been around a long time and have seen all the bells and
whistles come and go. No -- I don't think MP3 is going away, but using
maximum compression techniques to MP3CD's is
not the way most archivists will be thinking anywhere in the near
future.  Laws of nature and physics still apply.  You can squeeze a lot of
audio data on to a CDR, but there IS going to be a difference
in high quality standard CD's,  and these compressed versions.  The
difference may not offend you [removed] so,  they  may be OK for you!
If you want to relive OTR or any other audio to the max - then as Ted and
Charlie point out - compressed formats are not the way to go.
(PS - for those who were asking - NO - my new BOB & RAY on CD series will not
be on compressed CD's)
Tom Heathwood - Heritage Radio - Boston    Heritage4@[removed]
-------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------
End of [removed] Digest V01 Issue #116
*******************************************

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