------------------------------
The Old-Time Radio Digest!
Volume 2004 : Issue 239
A Part of the [removed]!
[removed]
ISSN: 1533-9289
Today's Topics:
7-22 births/deaths [ Ron Sayles <bogusotr@[removed]; ]
newspaper radio pages [ "B. J. Watkins" <kinseyfan@hotmail. ]
Mary Livingstone dropping pages? [ damyankeeinva <damyankeeinva@earthl ]
Dropped Pages [ "George Tirebiter" <tirebiter2@hotm ]
newspaper pages on the net [ Kevin Greenlee <kevingreenlee@gmail ]
CBS Radio Workshop [ "Jeff G" <geddes_jeff@[removed]; ]
'Look, I hear a White Horse approach [ "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@ ]
Auditron [ "Ivan G. Shreve, Jr." <iscreve@comc ]
Jack Benny in movies [ JackBenny@[removed] ]
Jack and script dropping [ JackBenny@[removed] ]
Jack Benny in Korea [ JackBenny@[removed] ]
Jack Benny in cartoons [ JackBenny@[removed] ]
Jack Benny TV shows [ JackBenny@[removed] ]
Re: Gang Busters Book [ Fred Berney <fsberney@[removed]; ]
Re: I rest my case. [ hal stone <dualxtwo@[removed]; ]
radio logs clarrification [ "Martin Grams, Jr." <mmargrajr@hotm ]
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 20:38:02 -0400
From: Ron Sayles <bogusotr@[removed];
To: Olde Tyme Radio List <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: 7-22 births/deaths
July 22nd births
07-22-1913 - Licia Albanese - Bari, Italy
singer: "Treasure Hour of Song"
07-22-1922 - Jason Robards, Jr. - Chicago, IL - d. 12-26-2000
actor: "Pepper Young's Family"
07-22-1924 - Margaret Whiting - Detroit, MI
singer: "Philip Morris Frolics"; "Barry Wood Show"; "Bob Hope Show"
07-22-1928 - Orson Bean - Burlington, VT
actor: "Chamber Music Society of Lower Basin Street"
July 22nd deaths
01-16-1894 - John B. Kennedy - Wales, Great Britain - d. 7-22-1961
commentator: "Collier's Hour"; "RCA Magic Key"
03-10-1898 - Cy Kendall - St. Louis, MO - d. 7-22-1953
actor: Captain Tracy "Tarzan"; Fred Thompson "One Man's Family"; "Escape"
03-21-1869 - Florenz Zeigfeld - Chicago, IL - d. 7-22-1932
showman: "Ed Sullivan Show"; "Zeigfeld Follies of the Air"
03-22-1913 - Tony Galento - Orange, NJ - d. 7-22-1979
boxer, actor: "[removed] Marine Band"
11-17-1911 - Jack Lescoulie - Sacramento, CA - d. 7-22-1987
announcer, emcee: "Grouch Club"; "Meet the Champions"
12-20-1900 - Ted Fio Rito - Newark, NJ - d. 7-22-1971
bandleader: "Presenting Al Jolson"; "Wonder Show"; "Jack Haley Show"
--
Ron Sayles
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 20:38:11 -0400
From: "B. J. Watkins" <kinseyfan@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: newspaper radio pages
Phil Chavin asked about the daily radio pages from newspapers during the OTR
period and whether the technology exists for getting those pages on the
Internet, and of the availability of any of them. I, too, would like to know
about this. I'm particularly interested in radio listings for the
Detroit/Toledo/Chicago area in the late 1940s/early 1950s. Every radio
magazine I have for those years are from the Los Angeles area!
Barbara
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 21:38:25 -0400
From: damyankeeinva <damyankeeinva@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Mary Livingstone dropping pages?
I am fascinated that this issue keeps coming up. I suppose we all have to
just come to the conclusion that somewhere - sometime - some studio - someone
- probably dropped his/her pages on the floor, but that it was not a common
practice, and I am sure certainly frowned upon by professionals, especially
dramatic cast participants and directors. Not to mention janitors.
One thing's for sure. Any actor dropping a script in a radio con like
SPERDVAC or FOTR needn't worry about the overworked custodians - those
scripts are snatched up fast by delighted OTR fans!
Given the recent posting about the film clip supposedly showing Mary
Livingstone dropping pages, and Charlie's reminder that it shows her
dropping, but not the papere [removed] have read that Ms. Livingstone
was very nervous appearing in the studio, and eventually just stopped,
recording her lines at home (I bet that drove the engineers and directors
nuts, incorporating the dubs into fast-paced live comedy action).
I have also read that to help ease her nervousness, Ms. Livingstone often
read her lines while seated at a table. If this is what is shown in the film
clip in question (I have not seen it), and she's careful about how she
dropped the pages, they would simply pile up on her table, not to be a
problem for any other cast members.
Yes?
Bestus, Lee Munsick (celebrating, well at least admitting the 29th
anniversary of his 39th birthday)
damyankeeinva@[removed]
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 21:38:55 -0400
From: "George Tirebiter" <tirebiter2@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Dropped Pages
At the risk of belaboring this subject to death I report the following: A
couple of weeks ago on "Book TV", the weekend version of C-SPAN2, I saw
lecture on politics by Thomas Frank. The (very partisan) subject matter of
the lecture is off topic here, but I was amazed tp see Frank drop every page
of his lecture notes on the floor as he had delivered it. There must have
been 30 or 40 pages on the floor by the time he finished. I wondered if he
would pick them up as the customary Q and A session began after his talk,
but he didn't. He also didn't slip and fall on the pages. I'm sure this
will be repeated, you can check the schedule at [removed] to find out
when.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 21:39:27 -0400
From: Kevin Greenlee <kevingreenlee@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: newspaper pages on the net
Perhaps the best- and the cheapest- source of old newspaper pages on
the internet is the Godfrey library site ( [removed]) . If you
pay $[removed] you become a "godfrey scholar" for a year. This gives you
access to the complete New York Times, Washington Post and Los Angeles
Times- all fully searchable and easily accessible. You also get access
to all the pages in the Newspaper Archive elite service. A great deal!
Kevin Greenlee
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 21:42:13 -0400
From: "Jeff G" <geddes_jeff@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: CBS Radio Workshop
Hey folks!
Not sure if this is an appropriate place for this message, but I'll be
brief.
I'm looking to trade for for an MP3 CD of The CBS Radio Workshop from
1956-1957. I'd rather trade for it than pay for it, so if anyone is
interested, please contact me privately. I may not have what you are
looking for in return, although I do have a good 90+ CD collection, as well
as some great audio cassettes. Hopefully we can work something out!
Jeff
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 23:19:53 -0400
From: "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: 'Look, I hear a White Horse approaching.'
D C Handler, speaking of Unseen Performers, notes,
How else would the public have known what Charlie McCarthy looked
like?
Well, in the case of Charlie McCarthy, he appeared in movies, such as You
Can't Cheat an Honest Man, a W. C. Fields film.
Stephen A. Kallis, Jr.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 01:29:59 -0400
From: "Ivan G. Shreve, Jr." <iscreve@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Auditron
OTR doyenne Elizabeth McLeod keyboarded:
Hooper himself was killed in a boating accident in 1954.
(Dreyfuss-like) This was no boating accident! (Okay, I'm sorry--JAWS gets
quite a bit of a workout here at the house.)
Arbitron was founded in 1949 as American Research Bureau, a
marketing-research service specializing in local radio -- as opposed to the
established firms, which focused on network programming. Arbitron also
tracks local television, using a diary method in which participants fill in
the programming they hear or view for a stated period.
While I've not been fortunate enough to reach the lofty heights of being a
Nielsen viewer, I was tabbed on two occasions by the Auditron people. I'm
guessing that my declining interest in television might have something to do
with the Nielsens taking a pass on my viewing habits.
Ivan
----
Classic movies, television and OTR at Thrilling Days of Yesteryear:
[removed]
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 08:37:22 -0400
From: JackBenny@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Jack Benny in movies
Mark Kinsler writes:
I submit this out of considerable ignorance, but wasn't Jack Benny in
several movies in the '30's and '40's? Though Benny was a fine actor, I
would think that mannerisms from his vaudeville days would have been
showcased in at least a few of these.
Remember, Jack wasn't always playing "Jack" in those movies. To borrow from
Hattie McDaniel, it wouldn't have "been fittin'" to have Jack doing
exaggerated hand gestures in "To Be or Not To Be" or "George Washington Slept
Here".
I think it's safe to say that the majority of us learned those mannerisms
through watching Jack on television. They're just better suited to a stage
show, with Jack being able to fold his arms or put his hand to his face as he
stares at the audience. With a movie, there's no audience to stare at unless
you break the fourth wall (which few actors did at that time, except for some
memorable Groucho Marx sequences in "Animal Crackers" and "Horse Feathers").
--Laura Leff
President, IJBFC
[removed]
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 08:37:34 -0400
From: JackBenny@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Jack and script dropping
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain
Doug Leary asks with a fiendish grin:
Of course the thing we would most like to know is, did Jack drop his script
pages on the floor? ;-)
And I'm gonna answer that JUST BECAUSE I CAN!
Jack didn't drop his script pages, he tucked them behind his script. Mary
dropped hers on the floor. If you don't believe me, look at the video clip
from Camp Haan on [removed].
--Laura Leff
President, IJBFC
[removed]
*** This message was altered by the server, and may not appear ***
*** as the sender intended. ***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 08:37:52 -0400
From: JackBenny@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Jack Benny in Korea
Garry Lewis writes:
I find several references to the fact that Benny did do USO shows in Korea
(a la Bob Hope). Maybe Radar caught one of his performances during R&R.
A very good point. Jack did do shows in Korea, and I've also found a
mention in one of his letters about working in hospitals for the boys that
came
back from Korea. I don't have an exact quote here, but he said that they
were
some of the hardest performances he'd ever done because many of the boys were
pretty badly torn up.
--Laura Leff
President, IJBFC
[removed]
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 08:38:15 -0400
From: JackBenny@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Jack Benny in cartoons
D. Chandler writes:
In addition to his movie appearances, of course, wasn't Benny parodied
several times in Warner Bros cartoons? And often we forget how often radio
stars made visual appearances in vehicles we don't commonly see today -
newsreels, war bond drives, etc. Even publicity photos likely pictured
Benny
with the hand/cheek gesture, likely captioned with "Well!"
(Can you tell I'm catching up on Digests?)
The short answer to the question on Jack's appearances in cartoons is to go
to _[removed]_ ([removed]) , then click on Programs,
then Cartoons. There's an extensive listing of cartoons that featured Jack
Benny likenesses, and even a link or two to be able to view the cartoons
(although I haven't tested them in a while).
--Laura Leff
President, IJBFC
[removed]
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 08:38:32 -0400
From: JackBenny@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Jack Benny TV shows
Ron Jorgenson writes:
Thanks for the great website Laura, I signed up for membership yesterday
as well, you all should too.
Thanks for the kind words, Ron! And my apologies to anyone who's signed up
in the past few weeks. I need to process new memberships, and hope to get to
that this weekend. You'll get a confirmation E-mail when I do.
PS. Who has Jack Benny TV shows for trade? I have a few dozen but want
to watch more.
Click on the Video Library link under Featured Items on the home page. I'm
in the process of converting my collection to DVD, and there are several
titles there already. If only there were more hours in a [removed]
--Laura Leff
President, IJBFC
[removed]
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 09:12:10 -0400
From: Fred Berney <fsberney@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Re: Gang Busters Book
Last weekend, Martin Grams came over to my house and handed me a book that
is almost as think as Websters unabridged dictionary. It is his latest book
and it looks just great.
I started reading it last night and had a hard time putting it down. It
starts off with a history of Phillips H. Lord. This man was a real
entrepreneur. I enjoyed reading the story of this man's life and I haven't
even gotten into the Gang Busters part of his life.
This 690 page book is just filled with everything you would ever want to
know about Gang Busters. The radio show, the movie serial and the
television show.
Then there are the logs, which Martin is so famous for. They take up almost
half of the book. And they are not just logs that give date and episode
number. These logs have good long descriptions of each episode.
I normally don't like to write anything about a book until I've had time to
either completely read it or at least get half way through it so I have a
feel for the information. But, from just reading the first 20 or so pages
and then reading the Table of Contents and then flipping through the book,
I can tell that it is a winner.
You will more than likely be able to see this book for yourself at the FOTR
convention in October, but for those that can't wait, I suggest that you
contact Martin via email mmargrajr@[removed] and ask him about ordering
a copy.
Fred
[removed]
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 09:13:42 -0400
From: hal stone <dualxtwo@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Re: I rest my case.
Ron Jorgenson had an interesting post yesterday, the same day my testy post
about the dreaded issue of "Script Dropping" appeared.
In Ron's post, he mentions seeing (in a film clip) Jack Benny's wife Mary
dropping her pages. Elizabeth mentioned this before. (Or was it Laura?)
But as our revered listmaster has pointed out, one does not actually see
them falling to the floor, just being dropped below camera frame. (Or placed
on a table?)
At any rate, the main thrust of my posting yesterday was to point out that
Professional Radio Performers did not drop their script pages to the floor.
But let me qualify the term "Professional". Just because someone is (or was)
paid to perform on Radio, does not make them "Professionals" unless they
were doing Radio work for a living. That's a fair distinction, right?
Mary Livingston was not a "Professional" radio performer. As I seem to
recall, Laura's past postings about Benny specifically mentioned how nervous
Mary was, and that she did not enjoy performing on the program. [removed] Not
only was she not a true radio performer, (my criteria), but was nervous as
hell having to do it, and probably suffered from the nervous hands syndrome
as well.
Ron went on to say;
The rest of the gang performed in this 10 minute clip as well. Don, Phil,
Dennis and Rochester all were there. None of them put their script pages on
the floor, Dennis even had his stapled together.
I rest my case.
Ooops. Then Ron Says
So this should put to rest the controversy of "did they or didn't they".
It showed in this clip pretty much what I would assume was happening in
other shows as well.
You know what they say when one "assumes", right? :)
Sometimes some of the performers placed their script pages on the floor and a
lot of the performers did not. It seemed to be pretty much up to the
individual
SIGH! I'll try once more. It wasn't "Some" of the performers who placed
their script pages on the floor. It was VERY FEW, and I've already given the
reasons for such unprofessional behavior.
and a lot of the performers did not.
Not a "lot". make that ALL! the pro's did not. EVERY PERFORMER that I ever
worked with in my 15 very active years in NY Network radio (NBC,CBS,WOR)
...[removed] dropped a script page to the floor. I guess I acted in
(including the years on Archie and other shows) about 1,000+ performances,
and worked with many hundreds of performers. Not to mention all the shows I
sat in on because I had ready access to all the broadcast studios. (As a
[removed] I was a fan) I suppose that reasonably qualifies me as expert on
the subject.
It seemed to be pretty much up to the individual.
No! No! No! Only if they had no training, sophistication, manual dexterity,
or awareness of proper mic etiquette and "proper" professional script page
turning techniques. It simply was not done by the Pro's. And if they weren't
appearing as one shot "Stars", they were soon told not to do it, or shown
how to handle a script.
Bah!Humbug! :)
No offense Ron. But I only post, or respond to Digest topics if I think it's
important to set the record straight, and only if I know what the hell I'm
talking about. I simply "lurk" and don't participate when it comes to topics
of a technical nature, Program logs, OTR collections, etc. I'm always amazed
at the store of knowledge that many of the people in the OTR hobby possess
about things like that. But when it comes to having "been there" as an
active participant during those years, I'm sort of the resident expert when
it comes to broadcast studio procedures and behavior (or misbehavior) of
the pros.
Hal(Harlan)Stone
Jughead
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 12:17:29 -0400
From: "Martin Grams, Jr." <mmargrajr@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: radio logs clarrification
The subject of the New York Times has come up on the Digest with the
suggestion that radio logs are available on the web. This system is
wonderful when it comes to finding old newspaper articles about radio shows
and obituaries about radio stars, but if your local library has the
newspaper on microfilm, you can save yourself the expensive fees mentioned
in previous Digest issues - my local Community College, for example, has all
of NY Times on mircofilm and they do not charge for photocopies off the
microfilm so I can copy articles to my heart's delight - or until the blank
paper holds out.
Regarding the matter of radio logs, I will state this with my reputation at
stake . . . the radio listings in newspapers are not 100% accurate. Any
true researcher who has ever gone through the newspapers knows this to be
true. Reason being, newspapers only listed what was PLANNED to be
broadcast, not what was broadcast. Anyone considering using this type of
source for compiling a broadcast log or episode guide will be shunned from
their results. Example, a fella in Canada some years ago actually used the
New York Times to list all the airdates and titles to broadcasts of SUSPENSE
(this was years before I wrote the SUSPENSE book) and having compared what
he had with what was definite - he had an error every three or four entires.
Wrong titles, wrong dates, etc. Sometimes he listed a drama four weeks
before it was broadcast (because the drama was intended for an earlier date
but was pushed for a later broadcast), wrong titles such as "Dead Ernie"
instead of "Dead Ernest" cause the newspaper didn't list it accurately, "The
Gun" instead of the thrilling "The Bullet," "The Train Wreck" instead of
"The Wreck of the Ol' 97" etc.
Secondly, newspapers were not detailed. NY Times was the MOST detailed and
only about 3% of the programs listed did they even list a title or guest
star. Even the names of the radio programs is vague - example is THE LUX
RADIO THEATER. The papers didn't list the name of the show because doing so
would have been considered advertising so on that Monday evening time slot
the radio listing would read "Drama" or "Play" instead. So unless you knew
exactly what show was broadcast on that particular day and time, it's very
vague.
Now . . . if anyone REALLY wants to compile a broadcast log that is not only
extremely accurate (I use the word "extremely" when compared to newspaper
listings), I suggest checking libraries. Reason being, vast collections of
radio program material can be found in libraries such as script collections,
press releases, correspondence, etc. Carlton E. Morse donated all of his
letters (50 years worth and they reveal things that would drive a nun to
drink), scripts, contracts and photographs to at least five different
libraries across the country, West Coast and East Coast. The creators and
producers and sponsors of radio shows saved every letter, correspondence,
script, etc. for legal purposes until after the show went off the air.
Heck, even writers have donated their vast collections to libraries for tax
purposes. These sources are extremely accurate and unlike newspaper
listings, you'll get all the plots, cast lists, all the good stuff. The
Library of Congress is one of the largest housings but almost every state
has a library with such material available for free.
A fella in California just recently went through newspapers to compile a log
on a radio show (why, I don't know since all of the episodes do exist in
recorded form anyway) and he's not open minded enough to understand that his
research isn't cross-referenced. He's posted his log on the web and
insisting that he's uncovered titles to "lost" episodes and claiming
everyone is wrong but since every episode exists in recorded form and the
dates and times are certain, (and thankfully he's admitted that he used a
newspaper to compile his log), his info is inaccurate. And it's best to
prevent inaccurate material from circulating before it causes damage.
Apologies for the ramblings, just didn't want to see a bunch of people
turning to on-line newspapers for research with the intent of compiling info
and claiming it's accurate. There's better sources than newspapers - script
collections are superb and available.
Martin Grams
[removed]
--------------------------------
End of [removed] Digest V2004 Issue #239
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