Subject: [removed] Digest V2001 #363
From: "OldRadio Mailing Lists" <[removed]@[removed];
Date: 11/12/2001 10:08 AM
To: <[removed]@[removed];

------------------------------


                            The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                              Volume 2001 : Issue 363
                         A Part of the [removed]!
                                 ISSN: 1533-9289


                                 Today's Topics:

  Re: NBC Pearl Harbor Recordings       [ Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed] ]
  Originals and Restorations            [ "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@ ]
  Amos 'n' Andy in Canada               [ "Eric Cooper" <ejcooper2001@[removed] ]
  VARIOUS                               [ "Ian Grieve" <ian@[removed] ]
  NBC Pearl Harbor                      [ "Eric Cooper" <ejcooper2001@[removed] ]
  Paper discs                           [ "A. Joseph Ross" <lawyer@attorneyro ]
  Re: Tape Baking                       [ Fred Berney <berney@[removed]; ]
  religious broadcasts                  [ "Mark Kinsler" <kinsler33@[removed] ]
  Missing the obvious                   [ otrbuff@[removed] ]
  Seeing Ear Theatre & CBSRMT           [ "Knaggs, Jim" <[removed]@[removed]; ]
  Superman MP3 Trade                    [ "Ryan Hall" <pezman419@[removed]; ]
  Setting the record straight           [ hal stone <dualxtwo@[removed]; ]
  Nubile Newfies                        [ hal stone <dualxtwo@[removed]; ]
  Burns and Allen airdate               [ DIANEK9331@[removed] ]

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 21:22:23 -0500
From: Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Re: NBC Pearl Harbor Recordings

George Wagner wonders,

 My question today is - are there now any
better-sounding copies? Has any of this stuff ever
been cleaned up and restored? I'm certainly hoping so,
since we're not dealing with PINTO PETE but with
American history itself.

Unfortunately not -- these discs were the only continuous recordings that
NBC saved for its Pearl Harbor coverage. They weren't paper discs - they
were "Memovox" recordings, made on a dictation-type machine that NBC used
to make crude-and-dirty reference recordings for logging purposes.

Memovox was never intended as a preservation medium, and it was never
designed for high-quality audio reproduction. The quality of the Pearl
Harbor discs was further compromised by the fact that many of them
suffered from groove creep -- the recording process involved embossing a
groove on a floppy plastic disc, and the groove tends to disappear over
time as the compression imposed on the plastic surface by the recording
head gradually relaxes. Had the recordings actually been made on
paper-based discs, it's likely they would be of much *better* quality
than the Memovox recordings.

The transfers of these discs put into circulation a decade ago have
already been heavily processed, and I suspect that any further attempts
at tricking them up electronically would cause more defects than they
would correct. It would have been nice if NBC had made continuous
high-quality lacquers of its Pearl Harbor coverage, as it did with D-Day
-- but, for whatever reason, they didn't.

Elizabeth

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 21:42:04 -0500
From: "Stephen A Kallis, Jr." <skallisjr@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Originals and Restorations

George Wagner notes,

I purchased seven or eight cassettes of NBC broadcasts from Pearl
Harbor Sunday. <snip>  Alas, the sound quality was so abysmally bad that
I've never been able to listen to more than about 10
minutes of this stuff  <snip>  My question today is - are there now any
better-sounding copies? Has any of this stuff ever been cleaned up and
restored?

This is an interesting question, considering the thread on "original"
versus "restored" recordings.  The original stuff, George W. reports, is
apparently so bad that it's really difficult to hear.  Presumably, any
cleaning up will be at significant variance to the original (such as
being intelligible throughout).  Given the situation, one could archive
the original sounds, and then try to restore the sounds as intended to be
broadcast.

The question: would the restored versions be a better reference?  Both
for historians and for OTR historians?

Stephen A. Kallis, Jr.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 22:46:49 -0500
From: "Eric Cooper" <ejcooper2001@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Amos 'n' Andy in Canada

I once came across and interesting story in a book I no longer have, called
"SIGNING ON: The Story Of Radio In Canada"

It seems that there was a Canadian Station right across the border from
Buffalo, NY, whose signal interfered with the Buffalo station carrying Amos
'n' Andy. The program director of the Canadian station got the bright idea
of going off the air for 15 minutes and then selling that "dead air" to
advertisers who would get a spot anouncement right before the statuon went
silent every night and again upon its return to the air

Eric Cooper

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 22:48:06 -0500
From: "Ian Grieve" <ian@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: VARIOUS

When Hal makes a return to The Digest, he goes all out.

One thing of concern is the reference to the book notes piled on the desk.
I guess that means the book will not be hitting the stands in time for
Christmas 2001.  Here I was, thinking that Hals absence was due to the time
he was spending on the book, but no, he is spending time chatting up young
otr lovers.

Jennifer, make sure you listen (watch) carefully to what Hal is saying.  No
better way to learn about History than from someone who has lived through
it.

I followed most of the Diamond back, dodgers etc, initially thinking of
'snakes in the grass' but no, turns out we were learning either about
Baseball or about the game of football played by people wearing so much
padding that it is a wonder they can still run.  If you want to see a real
game of football with minimum padding but heaps of strength and agility, I
can send you a tape of a Rugby League game, in this instance a video tape,
but the games are broadcast on Radio as well.  If it is Baseball you were
refering to, then I guess a tape of a game of Cricket will surfice.  Yes
basball is a faster game than Cricket, but Cricket is easier to follow than
'here we are at the bottom of the fourth', never did work out what that was
all about.  No doubt I will be 'told'.  Perhaps if posters have to nominate
what systems a particular software works on, then sports posters should have
to nominate the sport they are discussing.

Welcome back Hal, now go and finish that book.


Re: MISSING EPS OF HANCOCKS HALF HOUR

Apparently 4 episodes were found, but they were only missing by the BBC,
nobody else.


MP3 VS TAPE

Tricky one.  I have had little experience with Cassettes and none with Reel
to reel, so I will not discuss which is better.

What I will say, is that I believe that it would be in everybodies best
interests to convert their shows to digital.  Even if you do not want to
convert to mp3 or make your shows available on mp3, at least take the time
to convert your shows to a digital storage.  Tapes do have an end of life as
will CDs.  Whatever medium replaces CD or whatever player replaces mp3, it
doesn't matter, having the shows in digital format will make it a breeze to
transfer mediums quickly and easily.

I guess it will depend on why you collect.  If you collect just for yourself
and you do not believe you have anything unique to pass on, then just leave
it sitting on whatever it is on now and have it buried with you.  If you
believe you have something unique and special and want to see future
generations enjoying it, then protect it.  If you do not value it then you
cannot expect others to value it.

Passing on something you value to future generations is special.  It gives
them a chance to understand you a little, to know the sorts of things you
value.  I have books that have been handed down through the family and it is
great reading a book that I know has been read by ancestors who came before
me.  I do a little genealogy and whilst facts like birth and death
certificates are handy, they do not tell you about the person.  Only the
person passing on the things they love can give the true insight.

I am a relative newcomer to otr.  But I have collected a lot of shows in mp3
format.  I will pass onto my children a lot of shows I enjoyed, a lot of
books I have enjoyed and a lot of great memories.  My children can name my
favourite movies, songs, books, actors, places, and now otr series.  They
know which movies make me cry (they often remind me) and I guess they will
take great pleasure at pointing out my frailties to their children and grand
children etc.

It saddens me to hear stories about the gaps in series or in some cases
whole series, that are not available because a collector or collectors have
decided they are the only ones who should have those shows and refuse to
make them available for others to enjoy.  What sad lives they must lead,
maybe someone should write a version of Scrooge as an otr collector.  No I
am not having a go at people who make a living selling tapes etc, they make
the programs available to others and they do an excellent job of quality
control.  I am refering to well known collectors who are well known only
through their reputation as hoarders and once they get their hands on a
series, thats the last that will ever be seen of it.  Sad, very sad.

Ian Grieve

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 23:58:52 -0500
From: "Eric Cooper" <ejcooper2001@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: NBC Pearl Harbor

Hi George,
I have those same tapes of NBC's Pearl Harbor coverage
I think , first of all that we are talking about the same excelent =
dealer
when i say this. He was merely repeating an old wives tale about the =
what
the discs were.

I am sure that our number one historian Elizabeth Mc Leod will "chime" =
in
shortly (sorry, bad pun!). In any case, the discs were called MEMOVOX, I
believe and were dictation style discs (similar to Dictaphone) that were
used to do sort of an audio log of the days broadcasts for legal =
reasons.
They are (as far as I know--Liz, help me out here) the ONLY known =
recording
of NBC that day (with the exception of Jack Benny's regular =
transcriptions).
They were certainly not intened to be listend to 60 years later, wich is =
why
they are so poor. But I fine that you can get enough out of them that =
they
are still fascinating listening.

Eric Cooper

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 00:01:53 -0500
From: "A. Joseph Ross" <lawyer@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Paper discs

Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 21:52:47 -0500
From: GEORGE WAGNER <gwagneroldtimeradio@[removed];

the fault lies squarely with the original source recordings. They were
all on paper discs.

Huh? What are paper discs?

 A. Joseph Ross, [removed]                                         [removed]
  15 Court Square, Suite 210                      lawyer@[removed]
 Boston, MA 02108-2503           	         [removed]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 00:32:06 -0500
From: Fred Berney <berney@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Re: Tape Baking

Baking a tape refers to placing a tape, usually a reel to reel tape, in an
oven to eliminate the squeal.

Most people suggest a convection oven at 130 degrees for around 5 hours.
The Ampex news group has the exact specs and I'll try and find them and
post them here.

However, I found that if you turn on the light in a standard oven and close
the door, after about an hour, the temperature gets up to about 130
degrees. Again, you don't turn on the oven, just the light inside the oven.

I tried this on a single tape and it did work. Many suggest putting the
tape on a metal reel for fear the plastic reel could melt. Probably a good
idea. I think I just used the plastic reel and didn't have a problem.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 09:30:58 -0500
From: "Mark Kinsler" <kinsler33@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: religious broadcasts

One good thing about religious broadcasts was the fact that they paid for
their air time.  The churches didn't pay much, but they paid, every week,
and sometimes in collection plate cash.

Other advertisers had a disturbing tendency to pay in merchandise.  This,
along with the endless supply of premiums from record companies, led to
extreme clutter at radio stations.  I opened a closet one day and two
bicycles fell out.  We also had a fleet of lawn-mower-engined mini-bikes at
the transmitter, courtesy of a vendor who was short on cash.  These were
worth one's life to ride, but everyone tried it at least once.

I used to run the Oral Roberts tapes on Sunday mornings.  These were sent
out on Oral Roberts' own metal tape reels, with his name stamped right into
the aluminum so they'd be returned.  Roberts was and is a class operation
with good audio and production values.

Conversely, local church broadcasts were often an adventure in 'gain
riding.'  The automatic gain control that can deal successfully with a fully
warmed-up New Haven preacher has yet to be invented: the microphone
diaphragm would rattle.  Then again, New Haven gospel music is the best
there is, so it was always worthwhile doing those recordings.

Oral Roberts tried to issue his programs on disk, but this didn't work.
About halfway through the broadcast, the hole in the middle of the disk
would heal up.

M Kinsler

who heard that joke when he was about twelve.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 09:35:06 -0500
From: otrbuff@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Missing the obvious

It's amazing to me how the obvious can be right under my nose and yet
elude me for a while.  Sunday night I was watching a two-hour CBS-TV
special on the fiftieth anniversary of I Love Lucy that many of you
undoubtedly witnessed.  Comments by various personalities were regularly
inserted  and one fellow kept recurring in those snippets that I knew I
knew but could not figure out where from.  I finally saw him enough times
to realize that he was the exceedingly wealthy widower who plays the love
interest of Tyne Daly in Judging Amy, a drama I've been watching since
its inception a couple of years ago.  But that was only a portion of my
discovery.  When I noticed his name on the screen, and then "heard" him
play a brief scene with Lucy from the old days, that squeaky,
adolescent-sounding voice woke a sleeping giant in me--this was/is
Richard Crenna, aka Walter Denton of Our Miss Brooks!

Now I know all of you out there had picked up on that eons ago but I
hadn't.  It sent me to my Dunning to learn that he had not only been
familiar as Walter but also as Oogie Pringle, the boyfriend on A Date
with Judy (Foster) in the late 1940s.  Remember him?  And before becoming
a leading Hollywood man Crenna was a regular on Burns and Allen as well
as Gildersleeve, and in recurring casts of Romance and The Zero Hour.

All this time I've been watching their romance develop on Judging Amy,
never realizing I was seeing old Walter Denton, Harriet Conklin's great
love (as well as Judy Foster's).  He really was a ladies' man, wasn't he?
 Time has been good to him.  It must have resulted from his generous
spirit of going out of his way to be kind to his favorite English
teacher, driving by her house every morning for a decade to pick her up
and take her to Madison High because her car was in the shop.

Jim Cox

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 10:30:24 -0500
From: "Knaggs, Jim" <[removed]@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Seeing Ear Theatre & CBSRMT

Hi all,

I am enjoying the mailing list daily as I am a relative newcomer to the
world of OTR & really appreciate the knowledgeable posts to this mailgroup.
I'm sure that there are fans of the 70s series CBS Radio Mystery Theater out
there.  Does anyone know the status of Bob Cook's forthcoming website
dedicated to the CBSRMT ([removed])?  I have heard that this site will
be coming up & fondly recall listening to the show as a child in the 1970s
and am looking forward to viewing the site.

Secondly, I recently became aware of the "Seeing Eye Theatre" which is the
SciFi Channel's version of audio drama delivered via the Internet.  Many of
you are probably well aware of this, but I thought I'd mention it.  I guess
it is not truly radio drama but it certainly captures the spirit.  It seems
to be very reminiscent of CBSRMT.  The couple of episodes I have listened to
thus far seem to be quite good with well-known actors.  The website is at
[removed]

I know that some folks are not as fond of more recent radio drama--I myself
prefer the dramas from the "golden age"; however, I think the newer efforts
help keep the notion of radio drama alive and can be great additions to the
vintage classics of the 30s, 40s & 50s.

Thanks,

Jim Knaggs

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 10:50:55 -0500
From: "Ryan Hall" <pezman419@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Superman MP3 Trade

Hey folks,
I was wondering if some of the good people here could help me. I seem to
have erased some of my Superman OTR episodes from my harddrive, and I was
wondering if anyone could help me out in a trade. I seem to have erased some
Superman episodes which include the following: beginning of the 6 Part Black
Narcissus serial, The Headless Indian Serial (from 10-27-42 to 11-19-42),
The Midnight Intruder (from 11-23-42 to 12-09-42), The Lost Continent of
Atlantis (from 12-10-42 to 12-21-42), The Mystery Ship (from 12-23 to
12-31-42), The Tin Man Serial (01-06 to 01-22-43), The New Heliocopter
(03-25 to 03-26-43), the Nazi Spy ring (10-18 to 10-20-43), The Sleeping
Beauty (01-29 to 02-08-45), all episodes from 02-27-45 to 05-08-45, The
flood (08-10 to 08-14-45), and the Dr. Blythe Serial from 09-05 to 09-21-45.
If this list is too nitpicky, and it would be easier for you, I would be
happy to just trade for CD(s) full of the entire 1942, 1943, and 1945
seasons of Superman. I have an extensive collection of OTR and would be
happy to trade quid pro quo. Please e-mail me privately. [removed]

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 11:32:23 -0500
From: hal stone <dualxtwo@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Setting the record straight

OTRChris@[removed]. in his recent posting re: the ongoing thread about Radio
Drama in "todays" visually oriented entertainment [removed] me as
follows when I responded to "Owens".

TV has a firm grip on the viewing public, and justifiably so. Radio had it's
day, and back then, it also had a firm grip as well. And accept TV for it's
vastly superior visual impact.

But unfortunately, while quoting me, he left out the very next sentence,
which was most important.

We, as a society, have evolved. (For good or bad is debatable).

OTR Chris goes on to say:

TV has too firm a grip on too many people .  I was raised on TV and my
parents used it as a baby sitter  allowing me to watch hour upon hour of
televison. <SNIP>

But the visual impact that Hal spoke of  is startling in the fact that  we
have a whole nation of zombies who still watch TV in the way I once did.

A "Whole Nation" ...God, I hope not. But I suppose a bit of an exaggeration
helps make your point. :)

And there is nothing positive about that .

I totally agree Chris. But I say again. Who's fault is that. Do we need to
institute a "Orwellian" culture, and establish "Thought Police" to control
what TV fare is fed to the public. I think not! The "Parents" need to be
educated, not just the children. They need to learn the harm they are doing
to their children by not "feeding" them a better balanced TV Diet.

We can debate the value of the Visual Medium "Until The Cows Come Home".
But, there are probably more good, than bad, aspects of TV (our current mass
medium), in my humble opinion.

It sure is not the fault of the Medium that parents abuse it by not
regulating the child's viewing habits, while also introducing them to good
literature, Music, etc. All too often, too many parents leave it to the
schools to educate their children, and for the TV to occupy the kids time
when they are not in school. (Let's not get started on the subject of Video
Games that the kids of today seem to also sit in front of like zombies,
playing by the hour.

It's a social problem. We have become an extremely hedonistic society,
filled with all sorts of entertainment diversions and pleasure seekers. I
say again. The problem rests with the "parents", for not monitoring the
plethora of visually entertaining diversions.

I for one usually watch The History Channel, Discovery, the "Nature" stuff,
because that's where my interests lie. There is a whole world out there in
TV [removed] it must be channeled. (Pun intended).

Back in the formative years of TV, when Sylvester "Pat" Weaver was head of
NBC Programming, he instituted a show called "Wide,Wide,World", and coined
the phrase, "Painless Enlightenment". It was designed to be educational, AS
WELL AS ENTERTAINING. That concept exists to this day. It's out there "In
Spades". Getting people to utilize it is another matter.

I planned my whole day around the TV schedule . <SNIP>
Radio never had that kind impact. People  read more newspapers and books
during the days of radio ....and played bridge :

I have to assume that you were born after the "Hey Day" of Radio, since the
BoobTube was your "baby Sitter".

Your statement that Radio "never had that kind of impact" is not totally
accurate. There was a large block of "air time" devoted to the daytime
"Soaps". It used to be a big problem. A large percentage of Housewives
planned their lives around that time period. Honest! One didn't dare call
them on the phone to distract them, interfere with, or in any way deprive
them of their "SOAP OPERA FIX". We, who were in OTR at the time, couldn't
believe the phenomenon, and quite frankly, sort of looked askance at people
who were so gullible to believe the "Drivel" and far fetched story lines
that were being dished out. It was "Mass Addiction" & "mass escapism" in
it's purest form.

However, Hal Stone seemed to indicate that radio drama had no place in the
21st century  because we now  have TV .  Perhaps then we do not need books
either ?

Come, Come, my [removed]'t put words in my mouth. I simply was responding
to a question about certain TV fare not translating well to Radio. Nothing
more. And I believe that I also said that the "Marketplace" drives what is
offered as entertainment. Tain't my fault that there isn't more Radio Drama
available. But I certainly understand why. And I personally  enjoy listening
to "radio" cassettes and "Audio Books" in the car on long trips. Beats the
current fare on the air today, and the "dead spots" out in the "boonies".
And I know lots of people that prefer reading books. (I'm going broke with
the amount of books my wife buys to read. She's a reading machine.) :)

<SNIP>> Looking back on radio's golden age I realize many of the old time
shows
could easily be done on TV today  and if I  were to do them today as a
producer  I would do them on Television.

See! See! My position exactly. At least we agree on that point. :)

Long before TV came along, (and perhaps even before Radio, for all I
know)...some wise sage penned the words. "One Picture is worth a thousand
words".

Stands to reason, Chris, that perhaps one "Moving Picture" might be worth
maybe a few thousand more?... But where Children are concerned, are we
talking about "Comic Books", or "Encyclopedias"?  Again, back full
[removed] should definitely be a decision controlled by the Parents of
today.

And, in my humble opinion, I believe that TV has contributed far more to
raising the IQ level of this country than Radio could ever have hoped to,
simply by accidental exposure to the World around us via this form of mass
communication.

While radio drama  will never be as it was let's not bury it all together.

Was I suggesting that? Heaven forbid. That's why I'm so supportive of all
the OTR clubs around the country, this Digest, and Lovely Lois's Thursday
nite OTR Chat [removed] Radio Drama and Entertainment lives on through all
you OTR fans, and the younger generation being exposed to it through these
organizations. Like Ryan and Jennifer.

Okay. I'm off my Soapbox. Please don't feel I was being adversarial, Chris.
I just didn't want my statements to be misinterpreted. I much prefer posting
in a more humorous vein. Being too intellectual taxes what's left of my
brain far more than I can handle.

Now, excuse me while I go play "Super Mario" on my aging Nintendo, or a game
oh "Hearts" on my computer. ([removed] think I'll skip the "Hearts" game. I'm
getting an inferiority complex because the 'puter beats me too often). :)

I know! I'll go back to writing my book, which extols those "Good Old Days",
when radio was "King".

Hal(Harlan)Stone
"Jughead"

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 11:33:22 -0500
From: hal stone <dualxtwo@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Nubile Newfies

neil crowley <og@[removed]; Posted

Subject: Nitpick nitpicked

From: "Dave" <davewh@[removed];

Geeze, I hate to nitpick [removed] Newfoundland wasn't part of Canada
during WWII. Newfoundland was still part of the British Empire.

Hal Stone indicated his service in Newfoundland was during the Korean War
and by then Newfoundland WAS Canada's newest province.

Yea! Leap to my defense, Neil. You go, Bro!

Of course, many Americans were stationed there during WWII, so Hal was only
continuing a tradition by valiantly defending the women of Newfoundland.

It was a dirty. dangerous job, but somebody had to do it. Wanna see my
battle scars? [removed] [removed] bite marks.

Sadly but true, the Newfoundlander's diet was extremely low on Calcium. Milk
was a rarity, and most kids drank soda pop as a steady diet. You wouldn't
believe how many of the young women had false teeth.

I certainly hope the Canadian Health Ministry addressed the problem over the
years. The Newfoundlanders were an interesting, hard working, group of
people, who, because of their isolation, had difficulty maintaining even the
most basic of lifestyles. Fishing was the principal industry, and most of
them had large extended families.

There was a popular saying in those parts. "In the [removed]
[removed] made love. In the [removed] didn't fish!.

I was warmly welcomed into many of their homes. Even the most destitute. I
believe the Air Force presence there helped the economy, and they
appreciated it.

While there, I appeared on the Base radio station a few times. Does that
qualify this posting as OTR related? :)

Hal(Harlan)Stone
"Jughead"

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 11:34:03 -0500
From: DIANEK9331@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Burns and Allen airdate

Hello All,
I am trying to locate the airdate for a Burns and Allen show. The show starts
with Gracie haggling a salary with their new Chinese cook, Wong. The plot is
about George losing his hair and Gracie and Meredith concocting something to
prevent that. Does anyone know when this aired?
Thanks,
Diane

--------------------------------
End of [removed] Digest V2001 Issue #363
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