Subject: [removed] Digest V2002 #78
From: "OldRadio Mailing Lists" <[removed]@[removed];
Date: 2/28/2002 12:34 PM
To: <[removed]@[removed];

------------------------------


                            The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                              Volume 2002 : Issue 78
                         A Part of the [removed]!
                                 ISSN: 1533-9289


                                 Today's Topics:

  How many Johnny's ?                   [ Jack & Cathy French <otrpiano@erols ]
  London bells and police sirens        [ leemunsick@[removed] ]
  RADIO STARS SHINE IN TCM MOVIE        [ Kevin Michaels <kmichaels@doityours ]
  Janet Leigh on radio                  [ "Walden Hughes" <hughes1@[removed]; ]
  Chimes of Big Ben                     [ "A. Joseph Ross" <lawyer@attorneyro ]
  Re: Help with OTR clips               [ Michael Biel <mbiel@[removed]; ]
  Bob Cook's CBSRMT site & Jerry Haend  [ "John" <glowingdial1@[removed]; ]
  RE: broken speech                     [ "Doug Leary" <doug@[removed]; ]
  Re: Tales of the Macabre              [ Brent Pellegrini <brentp@[removed] ]
  WXYZ, CKLW and Mutual                 [ "Robert Angus" <rangus02@[removed]; ]
  Lum 'n Abner                          [ "[removed]" <swells@[removed]; ]
  Mason Adams                           [ dougdouglass@[removed] ]
  The Creaking Door                     [ Tsunami1000@[removed] ]
  Re: Inept Acting                      [ hal stone <dualxtwo@[removed]; ]
  Ivanhoe                               [ Jim Murtaugh <JimM@[removed]; ]
  Empire State Building Crash           [ bruce dettman <bdettman@[removed] ]
  long time reader, first time poster   [ Hpdedoo@[removed] ]
  Interval Signal (Bill Jaker)          [ "billorr" <billorr6@[removed]; ]
  Empire State Building                 [ "Marvin R. Bensman" <MBensman@memph ]
  Broken speeches.                      [ Harry Bartell <bartell@[removed] ]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 00:02:10 -0500
From: Jack & Cathy French <otrpiano@[removed];
To: OTRBB <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: How many Johnny's ?

I suspect there may be even more than the two "Johnny's" that Philip
Morris wants to claim. The Fall 1980 issue of NARA NEWS reported the
death of a third Johnny, who passed away in Phoenix, AZ on January 7,
1980. A bartender, Jimmy Tattler, who was born James Turchi in Indiana
in 1915, was working in a Chicago bar in 1935 when he won an audition to
become Johnny. For the next 18 years, he made public appearances in the
bellboy costume for the famous cigarette company. Turchi was 11 inches
taller than 4 ft. high Johnny Roventini, but apparently was short enough
to pass inspection in the Midwest.

Incidentally, in August 1976 Philip Morris called Roventini, then 66,
out of retirement to announce the company's plans of expanding their New
York City headquarters. He had played Johnny on radio and television for
41 years beginning in the mid 30s.

Jack French
Editor: RADIO RECALL

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 00:03:41 -0500
From: leemunsick@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: London bells and police sirens

Russ Butler chimed [removed]

...that the BBC used a recording of Big Ben's bell to help keep Tommy's
morale high in WWII.  I infer that BB's (not BBC's) actual bells did not
sound, in keeping with the ban on church bell intonations, saved for use in
case of actual invasion.

I am reminded of the trans-Atlantic broadcast at the end of that war, when
the Brits sent us the sound of Big Ben chiming in all its ringing beauty in
victory, and we answered with the dull "glunnng -- glunnng" of our Liberty
Bell, which was of course cast in Britain, but suffered a crack so it
didn't peal well.  Just like the cellophane on audio cassettes and CD
"Jewel Boxes".  [removed]

Then came from Russ the item that the London Bobbies don't use wailing
sirens still today, because they remind too many Britons of the horrible
days of the Battle of Britain.  Both revelations are most interesting.  I
must assume that the wailing sirens he refers to are those like typical
American emergency vehicles, sort of a faster, higher-pitched version of
those horrible wartime shimmering sirens.  So what DO the Metro boys (and
may I assume also ambulances and other emergency vehicles?) use [removed]
alternating high-low notes as in Europe?  I assume not a Klaxon, which
would simply be too, teu Teutonic.  Just kidding, chaps, but I am [removed]

Lee Munsick
Who thinks he knows about all these things from the cinema, of course!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 09:29:22 -0500
From: Kevin Michaels <kmichaels@[removed];
To: "Radio  Digest" <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: RADIO STARS SHINE IN TCM MOVIE

I just finished watching a movie on TCM, "Anatomy Of A Murder" in which no
less that 5 identifiable OTR stars had featured roles.  There was Eve Arden
(Our Miss Brooks) * Howard McNear (Doc in Gun Smoke)  * Joseph Kearns (Many
comedy shows)  *  Ned Weaver (Soap Star) and Ken Lynch (Character Actor).
The film was made in 1959, near the end of the OTR era, and when many otr
actors were making an effort in films and TV.  It was really good to see
these pioneers together in one film.

(Sidelight):  Also in the film was Kathryn Grant, who later became Mrs. Bing
Crosby (or was married to him at the time this picture was made).

Kevin Michaels

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 09:29:38 -0500
From: "Walden Hughes" <hughes1@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Janet Leigh on radio

I am getting ready to interview Janet Leigh for YUSA, and I know she wrote
about her memories in working in radio in her auto biography.  I have  her
first radio work on Hollywood Players on 12-25-46.  I know she did some Lux
Radio Theater shows too.  Does any one have the show titles and dates of the
Lux she appeared in and is there any other radio shows that she appeared on?

Take care,

Walden Hughes

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 09:30:06 -0500
From: "A. Joseph Ross" <lawyer@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Chimes of Big Ben

Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 15:37:19 -0500
From: Michael Shoshani <shoshani@[removed];

English language broadcasts were prefaced by several minutes of a
literal cacophony of bells  I never knew where they were from.

I've heard that, too.  According to the World Radio TV Handbook for 1983,
this was "Bow Bells."

Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 16:02:47 -0500
From: "Russ Butler" <oldradio@[removed];

Sandra Skuse posted that the BBC still uses the chimes of Big Ben:  During
WWII, did the BBC broadcast the bell chimes on a recording, rather than
live?

I read a Readers Digest article about Big Ben many years ago which said
that the BBC used a recording during at least some part of World War II,
for fear that the live sound of Big Ben could give the Germans
information about weather conditions over London.   It also said that at
some point, either before or after the war, Big Ben was undergoing
rennovations, and another bell, I think at St. Paul's, was used instead.

--
A. Joseph Ross, [removed]                           [removed]
 15 Court Square, Suite 210                 lawyer@[removed]
Boston, MA 02108-2503           	         [removed]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 09:30:59 -0500
From: Michael Biel <mbiel@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Re: Help with OTR clips

It is very ironic that Tony Palermo makes the claim "The news event that
put live radio on the map was the crashing of the Hindenberg in 1937."
It is quite the opposite.  As even the web site he steers us to states,
it was not a live broadcast, it was a recording.  For ten years, network
radio had been stressing the truthfulness of live broadcasts, but this
exciting, on-the-scene description was not being broadcast live.  If
anything, it gives lie to the importance that the networks were placing
on live broadcasting and should have convinced saner heads that emphasis
should instead be placed on trying to get reporters and recording
equipment to events that could not be carried live.  But years passed
before this started to be allowed on American network radio--although
the British and Canadians had been doing recorded reports all this time.

Tony also reminds us "that this clip was studied when Orson Welles'
"Mercury Theater on the Air" were preparing their production of "War of
the Worlds."  Further irony.  Morrison's recorded report was real, while
Welle's live broadcast was fiction.  So much for the networks'
oft-repeated claim about live broadcasts being less deceiving than
recorded broadcasts!

Michael Biel  mbiel@[removed]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 09:31:38 -0500
From: "John" <glowingdial1@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Bob Cook's CBSRMT site & Jerry Haendiges

where are you?
Approved: ctrn4eeWlc

Hello folks, I noticed a couple of others have written in about the problems
they have had at Bob Cook's newly resotred CBSRMT site.  They, like I, seem
to get about 1/3 of a file then it just stops on them.  I, too have emailed
Bob and have received no reply.  I just tried to access the site and I got
the following message: Forbidden - you do not have permission to access the
requested file on this server.  Anyone know what gives here?  It is not my
intention to start a flame of any kind.  Just curious as to what is
happening.  Perhaps Bob has just got his hands full with whatever the
problem with his site is.  If he is reading this I hope he knows what a
wonderful service he is doing for us and that we appreciate it.  Hope to see
the site back up real soon.

On a different note, sorry to do this on the digest but I have been trying
to contact Jerry Haendiges about a long overdue order I placed with him.
Perhaps my emails are not getting through. Jerry if you are reading this
please contact me as I wish to get this straightened out asap.  Use this
address glowingdial@[removed] .

Thanks, John W. Matthews

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 09:32:13 -0500
From: "Doug Leary" <doug@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: RE: broken speech

With my limited acting experience I can address this one. The answer is that
interrupting someone in the middle of a specific word is not easy. It takes
timing and practice. Between the moment you will yourself to speak, and the
moment the sound of your voice actually comes out, there is a mechanical lag
as you open your mouth and get the air moving. So your cue has to be a
syllable or two before the interruption point, but without making it look or
sound like you were waiting for it. This cue can vary, as the other actor
probably isn't going to speak at exactly the same speed as in rehearsal.

Try telling somebody this simple knock-knock joke:

==================
Knock Knock.
   Who's there?
Interrupting cow.
   Interrupting c-
MOOOO!
==================

Doug

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 09:32:43 -0500
From: Brent Pellegrini <brentp@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Re: Tales of the Macabre

I heard  some of these shows a few years ago. Despite the promising
title, they were horrible but like bad movies I got to like them because
they were so bad they were good. The main actors voice was so good it was
bad too.

+++_SI^@)y
TLUFp<1pyN4&

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 09:33:02 -0500
From: "Robert Angus" <rangus02@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: WXYZ, CKLW and Mutual

Can any of you Detroit old-timers explain the history of Mutual Broadcasting
in the Motor City?  As I understand it, WXYZ was a founding member of the
Mutual Network, formed in part to carry The Lone Ranger.  Yet by the time I
began listening to TNR in 1939 or 1940, he was on the NBC Blue affiliate
(WNBC) in Hartford, Conn. and at some point, a Canadian 10,000-watter in
Windsor was carrying Mutual programs---without TLR.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 09:33:42 -0500
From: "[removed]" <swells@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Lum 'n Abner

    A little while back I had posted a note about working on putting
together the complete existing series of Lum 'n Abner. Well, after 10 months
of work, and spending a small fortune, I have finally completed it. What a
job it has been!! I would like to publicly, and personally thank two good
friends of mine who helped me so much during this 'little' project, Ted
Davenport and Thomas Martin. Both of these gentleman were invaluable to me
with helping assemble various shows, advice, etc, etc.
    Although I am a huge fan of Chet & Tuffy's work, I am glad this one is
finally over. I had debated, 'Suicide'in myself in the Mill Pond' a few
times due to the shear size and hard work that was involved with this.
    I have sent the log of all the shows to Jay Hickerson for his
publication, and to Lou Genco for his [removed] website. Bear in mind
that I am not a true log writer, the title of 'professor of logs' belongs to
people like Frank Passage, Dick Judge, Terry Salomonson, Jerry Haendiges,
Jay Hickerson, etc, etc, [removed] I am just a rookie, who wanted to contribute
to the cause.
    Thanks and
'Wonderful World'
Shawn

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 10:11:09 -0500
From: dougdouglass@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Mason Adams

Belated greetings to Mason, who celebrated his 83rd birthday on Tuesday,
the 26th.

-- Doug

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 10:42:59 -0500
From: Tsunami1000@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: The Creaking Door

Does anyone recall The Creaking Door, a South African spook series?  I would
like more information on this old program.  Indeed, I would like to find
those collectors who collect it so I could swap or buy outright copies of
this program.  Anyone interested?  I heard one example of this superb radio
drama some years ago, but I recall some of its background music was similar
to the music found on the old Superman television shows.  And sponsored by
"Three Fives" cigarettes (I think), an unusual name for a pack of cigarettes!
 Please contact me if anyone is interested in exchanging on cassette or CDs!
Thanks, Jim F

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 10:53:25 -0500
From: hal stone <dualxtwo@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Re: Inept Acting

 "Holm, Chris" (or Chris Holm) specifically asked H. Bartell and myself a
question.  Whichever one of us responds first won't matter much. I bet Harry
and I say the same thing. The only difference being, he's usually more
"gentle" about it, and more succinct.  Chris notes;

In radio shows, it is not uncommon for one character to be interrupted by
another.  However, to me it often sounds awkward.  Character one's lines
seem to be written to be interrupted - that is, their dialog is a
fraction of a word or sentence, which ends where character two is
supposed to begin speaking the interruption.

That's exactly right Chris, That's the way the scripts were actually
written.

However, usually there is a pause between the two characters.  An example:

Character 1: "I think were safe [removed]"
*** big pause ***
Character 2: "You spoke too soon, here come the cops!"

Why do some shows like Jack Benny and Gunsmoke get it right so often,
while some many others (OTR and modern TV) always sound so awkward?

I can give you three reasons for the badly done examples, Chris.
A) Lousy Radio performance "training"
B) Lousy acting or inexperience.
C) Lousy and/or inept directing.

All scripts were written just as you described, but the experienced "Radio"
Actor would generally add (of his own volition) a few extra words to his
line, just in case Character 2's timing was off. I mean literally pencil a
few more words into the script, so there would be no "dead air" and a phony
sounding conversation.

Also, during rehearsals, or Dress, the Director would generally pick-up on
the fact that maybe the timing was off between these two actors, and would
either tell actor 1 to keep talking until he's interrupted, or tell actor 2
to "pick up your damn cue".

I think you'll find that occurs more often with transplanted Motion Picture
actors who weren't as experienced in Radio. The old pros, Like Benny and
Conrad, (and of course, Harry Bartell), knew better.

And more than likely, the "good" Radio actors often emoted facially and with
body language when delivering their lines. That helped even more to create
the illusion of reality. For example, If the part called for them to be
walking and talking, they would actually talk and walk in place in front off
the Mike. And even run,(getting breathless),if the situation called for it.
(Fight scenes were fun to watch). As the sound man beat his sand filled
flour sacks (or his upper body) to death, the actors would sometimes even
feint and jab among themselves. (Of course, being careful not to lose their
place, or drop their scripts). Physical activity helped to more accurately
replicate the vocal quality needed for the ongoing action.

But picture this. Take the same example you used earlier. Two "crooks"
talking. Lets say they are running and talking, with the cops chasing them,
and shooting at them. Let's say guy #2 has a line

"Hurry, they're gaining on [removed]
(SFX) DISTANT GUNSHOt
... Ooo! they got me!

What would happen if the sound effects man had a bad batch of blanks, and
the gun failed to fire on cue?. What would you do? I mean, besides looking
daggers at the sound effects man?

Hal(harlan)Stone
"Jughead"

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 10:53:15 -0500
From: Jim Murtaugh <JimM@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Ivanhoe

			Tom Roberts asked about a dramatization of Ivanhoe.
I believe Family Theater aired this on 10/19/49.  Hope this helps.

			Jim Murtaugh

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 11:07:59 -0500
From: bruce dettman <bdettman@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Empire State Building Crash
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February 28, 2002

Don't know if this will help, but years ago I read a book on the
incident. I believe it was called The Sky Is Falling. Don't recall the
author.

bruce Dettman

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 11:08:38 -0500
From: Hpdedoo@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: long time reader, first time poster

Hi all, I'm a 25 year old fan of OTR, who has just 2 years ago discovered the
joys of MP3 and collecting the shows.  I used to be a book nerd in Jr high,
and spent a lot of time at the local library and discovered a small
collection of tapes of Suspense, Green Hornet, and Fibber.  My Mom would
occassionally run across an old cassette tape at a garage sale and would buy
them for me, but as an adult I'm proud to have over 16 thousand shows.  In
many cases they have replaced television for an evening's entertainment.  I
never realized the scope and scale of OTR when I would listen to the shows at
14 in my bedroom, but I love the selection I have now, and love to send out
gifts of copies of hand-selected shows to my friends and family as a treat.

The point of my [removed]  The person who commented that it would be nice to
personally send a "thank you" to some of the performers still with us
inspired me to send a note in to Hal Stone and others reading.  In
particular, Hal-you've made me laugh over and over with your peculiar laugh
and distinctive voice.  I only have a dozen or so titles from the Archie
Andrews series, but I loved every one of them.  From a kid who grew up on the
comics' version first, it was really cool to stumble across the voices of the
characters I loved-done 30-40 years earlier !

Now a question-why is it I can't seem to find more than a dozen titles from
Archie Andrews?  I've checked here and there and everywhere, and everyone
seems to have the same the same titles all the same as mine.  Do they exist?
How many WERE there, and how many survived?  I want them. (smile).

Thanks for being so accessible Hal, and the rest of you, through the
internet.

Ken K
Phoenix, Arizona

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 11:46:31 -0500
From: "billorr" <billorr6@[removed];
To: "OTR List" <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Interval Signal (Bill Jaker)
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All,

Just as a historical aside, Lilliburlero (correct spelling) is the marchpast
(official march, as we say in the colonies) of  The Corps of Royal Electrical
and Mechanical Engineers.

Bill, I miss it, too. It is a catchy and high-spirited tune.

Bill Orr
Tulsa, OK

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 12:54:53 -0500
From: "Marvin R. Bensman" <MBensman@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Empire State Building

Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 11:25:00 -0500
From: hal stone <dualxtwo@[removed];
<snip>
"A B-25 Bomber lost in the fog over New York City crashed into the Empire
State Building this morning at 9:49. Hitting the 79th floor, it created an
18 X 20 foot hole, killed 13, and injured 26.

The University of Memphis Radio Archive at:

[removed]~[removed]

   has the WOR coverage of Empire State Building crash, interviews and
ends with a  recording of the actual crash caught on a dictagraph
machine as someone nearby was dictating a letter.

This recording is to be a "Lost and Found Sound" program on NPR's All
Things Considered sometime soon. Check NPR website.

0545 - 1/4 hr. - 7/28/48 - EMPIRE STATE [removed],ACTUAL DICTOGRAPH RECORDING

Professor Marvin R. Bensman, [removed], [removed]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 13:42:07 -0500
From: Harry Bartell <bartell@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Broken speeches.

In reply to Chris Holm's questions about broken speeches, if it were done
properly there would be no pause. If there was a hole between the two
speeches, actor two was late for a cue. Even if that was the case, actor one
should have continued talking until actor two woke up.

In some instances, a line was written with the intention that actor one
suddenly thought of something and interrupted himself, in which case there
would necessarily be a pause. Rarely, both actors would be talking at the same
time but when that happened one was usually off-mic. When the audience had to
follow action with nothing but sound it  was chancy to allow too many sounds
at once.

One other thing: when actor one found a broken speech indicated in the script,
if he was on his toes he finished the word  even if actor two picked up his
cue properly. I would hazard a guess  that if you listened closely to the Jack
Benny example you could hear a bit more of the word than "Roche---"

Harry Bartell

--------------------------------
End of [removed] Digest V2002 Issue #78
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