Subject: [removed] Digest V2002 #76
From: "OldRadio Mailing Lists" <[removed]@[removed];
Date: 2/27/2002 9:21 AM
To: <[removed]@[removed];

------------------------------


                            The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                              Volume 2002 : Issue 76
                         A Part of the [removed]!
                                 ISSN: 1533-9289


                                 Today's Topics:

  Re: BBC Bells                         [ Michael Biel <mbiel@[removed]; ]
  Golden Age Video                      [ robbie l metz <vaboy1960@[removed]; ]
  #OldRadio IRC Chat this Thursday Nig  [ lois@[removed] ]
  George W. Trendle                     [ "A. Joseph Ross" <lawyer@attorneyro ]
  Re: Recording Formats                 [ Michael Biel <mbiel@[removed]; ]
  Old Movies On The Net                 [ "david rogers" <david_rogers@hotmai ]
  Today in radio history                [ Joe Mackey <joemackey108@[removed] ]
  BBC interval signals                  [ "Andrew Emmerson" <midshires@[removed] ]
  The Shadow and Philip Marlowe         [ "Laurie Platt" <laurie112554@[removed] ]
  Passing Parade shorts                 [ Tom and Susan Kleinschmidt <tomkle@ ]
  Re: Spondulicks                       [ "Michael Hayde" <mmeajv@[removed]; ]
  Wailing sirens                        [ "S Skuse" <sskuse@[removed]; ]
  Empire State Building                 [ "Donald & Kathleen Dean" <dxk@ezlin ]
  IS "JOHNNIE" STILL LIVING?            [ Michael Shoshani <shoshani@[removed] ]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 01:13:18 -0500
From: Michael Biel <mbiel@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Re: BBC Bells

On Sunday 24 February, Michael Biel wrote:
They now use three electronic sounding notes in the pitch of "B B C"
for some services, and used to use the sound of the Bow Bells for
other services.  <snip>  Alas, I no longer hear the chimes from
Westminster on the quarter hours.

From: "S Skuse" <sskuse@[removed];
The BBC World Service uses the chimes of Big Ben, the clock tower which
adjoins the Houses of Parliament, not the sound of Bow Bells, which are
something different (Bow is another district of London, some miles away).
It still uses the chimes of Big Ben on the hour, but not every quarter
hour as it once did.  "Born within the sound of Bow Bells" is still a
saying in the east end of London, but the Great Bell of Bow isn't the
bell used by the BBC.

No, actually the BBC used both, but for entirely different purposes.
The Bow Bells was a long recording of the sequential pealing.  They used
to use a pre-war recording for sentimental reasons, but later on
switched to a modern recording of the rebuilt tower.  It was used for
Interval Signal tuning purposes for many minutes when they were setting
up a new frequency on a transmitter for a far region of the world.  They
would play the recording for as much as ten minutes.  On the other hand,
the Westminster Chimes from the clock tower of the Houses of Parliament
were always fed LIVE from a microphone in the tower, and until a year or
two ago were heard at the end of announcements between programs at
breaks at :15, :30, or :45, but __not__ on the hour.

Back in the late 50s or early 60s, when it was still called the General
Overseas Service, the BBC decided that using the hourly chimes was
taking up too much air time, and was causing the hourly newscast to vary
in length and starting time depending on how many chimes would be rung
at the hour.  So they decided that the ONLY time the hour chimes would
be heard was once a day at 14:00, which would have just two peals of Big
Ben.  All the other 23 hours were noted by an announcement at X:59:30
"This is London" followed by a 20 second march (I forget the name.)
Then would come the six time beeps.  Following the last beep would be
the announcement "______ hours, Greenwich Mean Time.  BBC World
Service.  The news, read by ______________."  The timing of this was
always exact.  Back in 1967 I did a daily live rebroadcast of the BBC
news on WRTI-FM Philadelphia at 7 PM.  I would be tuning in my radio
just before the hour to find the strongest and quietest frequency.  When
I heard "This is London" at 6:59:30 I turned up the signal from the
radio for the march and played it under a 20 second cartridge
introduction I had recorded introducing the program.  When my last words
were heard at the end of the march, up would come the beeps.  Perfect
timing.  (Following the BBC news I played the recording I had made at 6
PM of the Radio Moscow newscast.  I didn't air the Moscow newscast live
because the timing of the start and end of their newscasts varied every
day!!  And following this I read a newscast from the UPI wire.  It was
not permitted to rebroadcast a Voice of America newscast, which is what
I had really wanted to also do.)

During the last two years there have been a lot of changes at the BBC
World Service.  One seems to be the elimination of anything that is not
a news or documentary program.  The other seems to be the elimination of
the Westminster Chimes between the programs.  In fact, the last time I
seem to remember hearing the chimes was at midnight London time Dec 31,
2000--the REAL start of the 21st Century.

The present BBC management has NO FEELINGS OF NOSTALGIA at all!

Don't look to the BBC to preserve the past - they're just not interested!
Sandra Skuse

They make attempts but haven't quite figured it out.  Their archive
repeatedly gets embarrassed whenever there is yet another disclosure of
some important item they didn't bother to keep.  I've discussed in the
past how their long-time archivist Timothy Eckersley told me in 1975 at
about the time of his retirement that the BBC only saves 9 hours of
recordings a week from the total of all of their program services.  That
explains why there is so much not there.  When I toured their archive in
September I found that they are saving a much higher percentage now.
They save everything that is a "big production budget" item, and have
total monitoring of some of their news services.  Some staff members
were of the opinion that EVERYTHING was being saved, but this turns out
to not be true.  There is a staff of about a dozen people who form a
selection committee and does decide what is probably expendable.  They
mean well, but past experience has shown that time must pass before it
really can be understood what is important.

They ran a historical exhibit in the basement of Broadcasting House
called "The BBC Experience" but they closed it down in July.  I had a
chance to tour it last January and it was interesting but was aimed for
the average person's nostalgia, not towards researchers.  There were
some fun exhibits, including a lifesize "radio fan" tuning a radio and
listening to old clips interspersed with the famous Tony Hancock routine
"The Radio Ham."  But you never got to see a REAL radio studio, or go
thru where they do the broadcasts.  Same thing when we were back in
September--security was very high even for our professional visit.  We
got to see the archive offices but not the actual archive--the
recordings are not in London anymore.  The Gramophone Record library
still is and we saw that, but all that is still in London are the LPs
and CDs.

But just last week I was looking thru a 2 hour videotape I shot while
visiting a private collector in London who has a wonderful collection of
early Soviet records, and as I only then found out, a large collection
of broadcast recordings as well.  I was looking to photograph the
different types of recording discs that were only used in England and
Europe, and at random we played one from 1935 and it was a segment of
"In Town Tonight" with a monologue by comedian Stainless Stephens.
Another hilarious disc was the soundtrack of the opening of the Midlands
TV station in 1949.  At the end of it the Interval Presenter in London's
Alexandria Palace studio tells the new set owners that it will take a
short while for the engineers to switch around the network lines, and
that you should not "twiddle the knobs" of your set while you are
waiting!!!  "Where but the Beeb would you hear that!" was my friend's
comment.  "Several thousand people had paid a workingman's two-month
wages for a set, and they tell you not to twiddle the knobs!"

I asked him if he had offered the BBC tapes of these discs, and he said
he had already given them some of them but they did not seem to be too
interested.  Actually the National Sound Archive at the British Library
is the repository of the early BBC archive.  The BBC has made note of
their anniversaries, and unlike any of our American networks, has put
out some historical compilations on LP and now CD at the times of their
50th, 60th, and 75th anniversaries.  And has been mentioned in several
postings, they have a large catalog of programs available on cassette
and CD.

Michael Biel  mbiel@[removed]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 01:13:53 -0500
From: robbie l metz <vaboy1960@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Golden Age Video

Hello ,

    Sorry about some of the pages at "Golden Age Video" being hard on the
eyes. I made some adjustment to those pages, hope it's better. I enjoy
the pointers so if you see something else please e-mail me or post here.
Thanks for all those who have visited and become customers. :-)

              Rob Metz
              GoldenAgeVideo@[removed]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 04:52:00 -0500
From: lois@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: #OldRadio IRC Chat this Thursday Night!

A weekly [removed]

For the best in OTR Chat, join IRC (Internet Relay Chat), StarLink-IRC
Network, the channel name is #OldRadio.  We meet Thursdays at 8 PM Eastern
and go on, and on! The oldest OTR Chat Channel, it has been in existence
over five years, same time, same channel!

Our numerous "regulars" include one of the busiest "golden years" actors in
Hollywood; a sound man from the same era who worked many of the top
Hollywood shows; a New York actor famed for his roles in "Let's Pretend" and
"Archie Andrews;" owners of some of the best OTR sites on the Web;
maintainer of the best-known OTR Digest (we all know who he is)..........

and Me

Lois Culver
KWLK Longview Washington (Mutual) 1941-1944)
KFI Los Angeles (NBC) 1944 - 1950
and widow of actor Howard Culver

(For more info, contact lois@[removed])

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 10:55:11 -0500
From: "A. Joseph Ross" <lawyer@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: George W. Trendle

Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 14:49:11 -0500
From: Michael Browning <aquarii2u@[removed];

There was a third program that he created and right off hand I can
not think what it was.

It was Sgt. Preston of the Yukon.  In fact, I remember when the LR was on
Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, and Sgt. Preston was on Tuesday and
Thursday.  When I first listened to Sgt. Preston, I was surprised to hear
the familiar voice of Brace Beemer as the sergeant.

--
A. Joseph Ross, [removed]                           [removed]
 15 Court Square, Suite 210                 lawyer@[removed]
Boston, MA 02108-2503           	         [removed]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 10:55:33 -0500
From: Michael Biel <mbiel@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Re: Recording Formats

From: Fred Berney <berney@[removed];
So much for standardization. About 50 years ago, the consumer public
didn't have a lot of choices. You could buy phonograph records in 3
different speeds and pre-recorded music was available on reel to reel tape.
You knew that if you purchased any one of these formats that your home
record player or tape recorder could play them. <snip> Then the new
formats started to arrive and ever since you could forget about
standardization. Cassettes, 8 track tapes, audio CD, MP3 files, etc.

Actually, Fred, you have oversimplified the early standards issue.
Having multiple standards to choose from is not a recent situation.  It
dates back many years.  Even before the turn of the 20th century the
consumer could choose between two incompatable types of sound
recordings--cylinders and discs.  And by 1900 there already were three
sizes of cylinders that needed different machines.  Before the cylinder
was finished there were several other incompatable sizes introduced.
And although most discs could fit on most disc machines, by 1915 there
were three types of grooving that could require different machines:
regular lateral grooves, Pathe vertical grooves, and Edison vertical
grooves.  Some enterprising companies made convertable machines or
adapters, but the consumer had to be able to tell the different groove
types apart.  In the mid-20s there were several schemes to make long
playing records, and these required different machines or adapters.
There was the constant linear groove speed record made in England by
World, the 80 RPM Edison Long Play that had ultra fine grooving, and the
Victor Program Transcription that required a 33 1/3 RPM turntable.

So there really has never been a period in the history of sound
recording where the industry had settled on just one format for public
consumption.  I suppose I could come up with a list of over 200 audio
recording formats that have been used over the years.  And the video
recording format list is endless.  Many archives complain that they have
to maintain a museum stock of machines in order to play their
recordings!

Michael Biel  mbiel@[removed]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 10:57:15 -0500
From: "david rogers" <david_rogers@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Old Movies On The Net

[removed] wrote:

ran across a web page hes offering old movies for 5 dollars + shipping
seems like a bargain anyone buys any charlie chan, monster flicks ect
i  hope they make me a copy ...

I wonder how many people are aware that there are a lot of old movies
available on the net - many of them for free. If you are interested here are
some sites that you may want to try:

[removed]

[removed];genre_id=-1

[removed]

[removed]

[removed],4243,,[removed]

[removed]

[removed]

[removed];PID=39457

[removed]

[removed]

[removed]

[removed]

Some of these sites you have to pay for but a lot of them have old movies
for free. If anyone knows of any other similar sites I would love to know.

Love as always, David Rogers

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 10:57:20 -0500
From: Joe Mackey <joemackey108@[removed];
To: otr-net <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Today in radio history

  From Those Were The Days --

1922 - Commerce Secretary Herbert Hoover convened the first National
Radio Conference in Washington, DC to discuss industry regulations.
  Joe

--
Visit my home page:
[removed]~[removed]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 10:58:09 -0500
From: "Andrew Emmerson" <midshires@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: BBC interval signals
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain

 Mike Biel is right and I'm afraid Sandra Skues is wrong.

They now use three electronic sounding notes in the pitch of "B B C"
for some services, and used to use the sound of the Bow Bells for other
services.

That is correct.

The BBC World Service uses the chimes of Big Ben, the clock tower which
adjoins the Houses of Parliament, not the sound of Bow Bells, which are
something different (Bow is another district of London, some miles away).

Double wrong. Bow Bells are not in the district of Bow (a common
misconception) but the bells of the curch of St Mary-le-Bow in Eastcheap, a
street in the City of London. And a recording of Bow Bells was indeed used
for many years by the BBC both on the World Service and on domestic
programmes as an interval signal and as a general "fill up"  (BBC expression
for something to fill gaps in transmission). I recall
 vividly when King George VI died 50 years ago, the BBC played Bow Bells
nonstop between annoucements that the king had died.

A side note:  I'm told that the police in England do not use "wailing
sirens" on police cars because the sirens are reminders of the blitz
bombings during WWII and it still offends the general public today.

Whoever told Russ Butler this was misleading him 'summat wicked'. Of course
we have those sirens. The reason why we didn't in the olden days was that
police cars, ambulances and fire engines were equipped with strident bells
instead, which served the purpose during the 1950s.

Andrew Emmerson.

  *** This message was altered by the server, and may not appear ***
  ***                  as the sender intended.                   ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 10:58:24 -0500
From: "Laurie Platt" <laurie112554@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: The Shadow and Philip Marlowe
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain

What became of Ben Johnstone, Bret Morrison and Gerald Mohr. If they are still
alive, is there anyway to write to them.

  *** This message was altered by the server, and may not appear ***
  ***                  as the sender intended.                   ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 10:59:36 -0500
From: Tom and Susan Kleinschmidt <tomkle@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Passing Parade shorts

Hello,

         By any chance did anyone record the two hours of Pete Smith and
Passing Parade shorts that were on Turner Classic Movies this morning? I
screwed up my timer setting and I did not get them. Please email me
privately and let me know if you can help me out. I'd appreciate it and I
have plenty to offer in trade. Thanks!

Tom Kleinschmidt

Visit My Web Page with all my trading lists
[removed]~tomkle

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 11:00:02 -0500
From: "Michael Hayde" <mmeajv@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Re: Spondulicks

Thank you Elizabeth and Christopher for clearing up a mystery that's been
gnawing at me since childhood (and please forgive me for going OT for a
moment): in the film "The Floorwalker" (1916), Charlie Chaplin comes across
a satchel filled with stolen money.  After a nice double take and
celebratory dance, he clutches his heart and a title appears: "Spondulicks
Forever!"  Whereupon he proceeds to attempt a head-first dive into the
satchel.  I never could find the word in any dictionary.

Michael

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 11:00:45 -0500
From: "S Skuse" <sskuse@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: Wailing sirens

On 26 February, Russ Butler wrote:

I'm told that the police in England do not use "wailing
sirens" on police cars because the sirens are reminders of the blitz
bombings during WWII and it still offends the general public today.

I live near a main road, and I can assure you that the police *do* use
wailing sirens in England. It's a two-tone siren, so it's not much like the
"wail" of US police sirens (I watch a lot of "Kojak" on tv!), but it still
makes a dreadful racket!

These sirens don't sound anything like the air-raid sirens used in WWII
though. In point of fact, if you listen to Orson Welles in "The Black
Museum", or to other fifties OTR crime shows set in England, you'll find
that in the old days the police used a bell on their cars, not a siren. It
was a rapid, high-pitched bell; electric, and rung every couple of seconds.
Long gone, because it wouldn't be heard over the traffic today, which is why
they replaced it with this modern, two-tone affair.

Sandra Skuse
Website: [removed]
dedicated to English OTR comedian Jimmy Clitheroe

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 11:01:06 -0500
From: "Donald & Kathleen Dean" <dxk@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject: Empire State Building

Hi Gang:

In the recent Digest, Bill Scherer asked the following question?

I'm too young to remember this but wasn't there a broadcast of the Empire
state building colapsing or catching fire or something in the 30's?
If so where could I get a clip of it?

I'm sure Bill that you will be getting other responses on this.
As a young teenager in the forties, I remember a military plane crashing
into one of the upper stories of the Empire State Building. It was big news
at the time and somewhere in my collection I have about 8 to 10 minutes of
a radio station interviewing people who were on that floor or close to it,
and a recording of a man talking on a dictaphone and you can hear the roar
of the plane and the crash. If this is what you're talking about contact me
personally and I'll make a copy for you.      dxk@[removed]

Don Dean N8IOJ

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 11:02:04 -0500
From: Michael Shoshani <shoshani@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject: IS "JOHNNIE" STILL LIVING?

Kevin Michaels wrote:

Many years ago, I had the pleasure of meeting "Little Johnnie" (last name
escapes me), when he came to our city on a promotional tour for Phillip
Morris and the "Crime Doctor" program.  I have been searching the web in vain
to see if there was one for him.  The only thing I came up with was a mention
of his association as the spokesman on the Phillip Morris web site.  Can any
one help?  Tanks in advance

There were two Johnnys, and both are deceased.  The original, Johnny
Roventini, was hired by Philip Morris in 1933.  He passed away in
1998.  Philip Morris hired Albert Altieri in 1935 to be "Johnny
Morris, Jr.", the original plan being that Roventini would handle
"Johnny" appearances east of the Mississippi and Altieri would be
"Johnny" west of the Mississippi.  In fact, Roventini had his hands
full with New York alone, so Altieri made personal appearances all
over the rest of the country.  Altieri died just over a month ago, on
January 13, 2002.  His obituary, which is where I learned about him in
the first place, can be found on CNN's website, at
[removed]

Michael Shoshani
Chicago IL

--------------------------------
End of [removed] Digest V2002 Issue #76
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