Subject: [removed] Digest V2003 #152
From: "OldRadio Mailing Lists" <[removed]@[removed];
Date: 4/10/2003 10:25 PM
To: <[removed]@[removed];

------------------------------


                            The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                              Volume 2003 : Issue 152
                         A Part of the [removed]!
                                 ISSN: 1533-9289


                                 Today's Topics:

  Amos and Andy                         [ "steven kostelecky" <skostelecky@ho ]
  Re: How Did the Shadow                [ Fred Berney <berney@[removed]; ]
  Elizabeth's Joke                      [ "evantorch" <etorch@[removed]; ]
  Amos 'N' Andy                         [ GEORGE WAGNER <gwagneroldtimeradio@ ]
  Apologies to Mr. Gosden - I'm Not Us  [ GEORGE WAGNER <gwagneroldtimeradio@ ]
  Library of American Broadcasting      [ Dan Hughes <danhughes@[removed]; ]
  You are there--Robert Lewis Shayon    [ "Andrew Schneider" <madjack71@earth ]
  Re: April Fools is foolish            [ Carolie Minuscule <daggerofthemind2 ]
  Yesterday USA/Radio Classics Live     [ Alan Chapman <[removed]@verizon. ]
  Need radio playlist software (simple  [ TEAM8@[removed] ]
  Elizabeth McLeod                      [ badaxley@[removed] ]
  rustling paper                        [ "Mark Kinsler" <kinsler33@[removed] ]
  Re: A&A Research                      [ Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed] ]
  ooops                                 [ "Elizabeth Minney" <epminney@wcsonl ]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 23:57:35 +0000
From: "steven kostelecky" <skostelecky@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Amos and Andy

I have been a member of this internet otr community for a few years now and 
have seen the issue of Amos and Andy and racism come up periodically. I 
have stayed out of the discussion except for a Yahoo otr discussion that 
became so nasty so quickly that I quit the group. We have had the 
discussion about race on the Gildersleeve Phorum as well and people have 
been pretty reasonable--up to a point.
I have to say I think we will all be conflicted in one way or another about 
the question. My gut feeling is that Correll ane Godsen were genuine 
fellows who had a story to tell. However, I also feel that the race issue 
is a valid one and should not be pooh-poohed as hypersensitivity.
I have to apply the same standard I apply in other matters of racism. I 
have always felt that the final arbiters in matters of racism should be 
those at whom the "racism" is directed. And I just haven't seen much of 
that in the discussion. How are contemporary black folks, who are presented 
with the evidence, not hearsay, but the strongest evidence that this show 
is not offensive to blacks, how do they feel? I do not feel comfortable or 
qualified to answer that question. And even if one group of people felt one 
way or the other, how representative is their opinion? These are not easy 
questions nor should the answers be taken lightly or with kneejerk reactions.
I have a strong feeling that there aren't any answers at all. I also think 
that if the questions need to be asked then they should and that we are 
capable of discussing them without rancor or incivility. And sometimes they 
are best left alone. But the issue will come up again and again and how we 
deal with it will say a lot about us as people and as a group with common 
interests.
Steve

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 23:58:24 +0000
From: Fred Berney <berney@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Re: How Did the Shadow

Joe Salerno asked about how the Shadow voice was created. I don't know 
exactly how it was done on the show, but in radio productions I worked on, 
a separate mike was used for filter effects. It just had to be a few feet 
away from the other mikes.

In radio production several microphones were used depending on how many 
people were performing. Although several could use a single mike, if filter 
effects like a telephone voice were needed, then this would be done on a 
separate mike.

I remember reading somewhere that a booth might be used is some cases.

If you haven't already done so, get a hold of Hal Stone's book. It has a 
lot of pictures of radio studios and he goes into detail on some mike 
placement for certain shows.

Fred
[removed]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 23:58:49 +0000
From: "evantorch" <etorch@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Elizabeth's Joke

Is there an English adjective for something that is beyond overblown, or is
ten times over beating a dead horse?
The countless insights and encyclopedic knowledge this woman has shared with
us, not to mention a wonderful dry wit and excellent  prose style evoke only
one emotion in me--to pressure her to write the McLeod Encyclopedia of OTR.
Who cares about a little gag for heaven's sake, when you have someone as
entertaining and erudite as she is?

Evan Torch, MD
Atlanta

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 23:59:38 +0000
From: GEORGE WAGNER <gwagneroldtimeradio@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Amos 'N' Andy

      My take on the entire Amos 'n' Andy
controversy is that the ONLY racism involved is
that Afro-Americans were not allowed to perform
their OWN humor on the radio, so that it had to
be filtered and somehow "sanitized" through two
White guys.

      But that societal attitude was NOT the fault
of Mssrs. Freeman and Correll.

      Back in the late 1960s I several times found
myself in friendly streetcorner debates with a
local Cincinnati "Black Power" activist. He was
impressed with me because I'd actually read a
good deal of Africa history, and knew the works
of the Afro-American anthropologist J. A.
Rodgers.

      So one day I asked him what he thought of
Amos 'n' Andy.

      He laughed.

      "So help me," he said, "I grew up listening
to that program and I was 10 years old before I
learned that those two guys were White! I
remember the night my Dad told me that and I was
stunned. Those boys had us pegged real good.

      "What they were, in fact," he continued,
"were two White guys who understood Black humor.
My guess is that they must have seen every
Rabbitsfoot Minstrel that ever toured the South."

      For my money, to say that Whites cannot
perform Black humor is just as racist as
insisting that Black orchestral violinists cannot
play "White" symphonies!

      And all truly funny humor is universal. Too
many people, alas, attempt to provincialize
Afro-American humor.

      George Wagner
      GWAGNEROLDTIMERADIO@[removed]

=====
Sincerely,

      George Wagner
      GWAGNEROLDTIMERADIO@[removed]
      poetdreamerscholar@[removed]

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 00:00:05 +0000
From: GEORGE WAGNER <gwagneroldtimeradio@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Apologies to Mr. Gosden - I'm Not
  Usually THAT Stoopid

      I really do know better than to refer to
"Freeman and Correll."

      In my early childhood, back when quality
radio wasn't yet "old time," I somehow stuck the
name into permanent memory as "Gosden Freeman."

      Comes out at the damndest times, it do.

      Sincerely,

      George Wagner
      GWAGNEROLDTIMERADIO@[removed]

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 00:00:36 +0000
From: Dan Hughes <danhughes@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Library of American Broadcasting

 >From theApril 4 issue of Radio & Records:

"The National Association of Broadcasters has donated $100,000 to the
Library of American Broadcasting, which for 31 years has been the
principal repository of radio and television history in the US.  The LAB
said the NAB's gift is the first and largest to be announced in the LAB
Foundation's 2003 campaign to raise $1,000,000 to support and expand its
activities.  The Taishoff [removed] pledged $500,000 to match the
NAB's and other major donations."

Where is the Library of American Broadcasting?  Who runs it?  Is is open
to the public?  Why have I not heard of it?  Or is this the museum in New
York and I just wasn't paying attention?

---Dan

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 00:04:59 +0000
From: "Andrew Schneider" <madjack71@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  You are there--Robert Lewis Shayon

I've been doing some further research for my presentation, and I discovered
a very interesting book by the writer/producer/director of You Are There,
Robert Lewis Shayon.  The book, an autobiography and memoir 20th century
media, is called Odyssey in Prime Time and was released by Waymark Press
in 2001.  It would seem that Mr. Shayon was alive as late as two years ago.
Does anyone know if he is still with us?

Mr. Shayon made a couple of interesting comments in his book that seem at
odds with the records of the show available on the Net.  He mentions that he
lost his job due to budget cuts in July of 1949, that his two lead writers,
Mike Sklar and Irve Tunick, were canned as well and that You Are There was
cancelled.  He then states that, shortly thereafter, he was targeted for
allegedly having backed a number of Communist front organizations.  The
following year, he was named in the publication Red Channels, effectively
blacklisting him, and he was out of work for three years until he could
convince the Red Channels publishers to retract the charge and clear his
name.

Shayon says that for years afterwards, he could never be sure whether he was
really let go because of budget cuts or because he was blacklisted.
Eventually, Shayon spoke with a former CBS colleague, Norman Corwin (also
one of those named in Red Channels.) Corwin told him, "If they had
continued You Are There on radio after you left, with someone else in
charge, then you might have attributed your firing to a fear of Communism.
But they didn't, so it probably was due to an effort to save money." He also
got in touch with Fred Stanton, president of CBS at the time he lost his
job.  Stanton said he had no idea Shayon had ever been in in Red Channels,
that the company had indeed downsized its staff in 1949.

That appears to have been the final word for Shayon.  Except that it doesn't
quite jive with the list of broadcasts I have seen elsewhere on the Net.
Several citations have the show picking up again in October, this time
broadcasting once a month with John Dietz as director (no producer named).
Sklar and Tunick both came back to write for the show.  The final show ran
July 9, 1950, more than a year after Shayon lost his job and the show had
supposedly been axed.

What is more interesting is that the final episode covered the Boston Tea
Party.  In his book, Shayon says that one of the guiding principles of the
show was that "[we] would never do an event where the presence of microphone
or electronic communications would actually interfere with or influence the
outcome of the event. This is why we would not do the Boston Tea Party.
English warships anchored in Boston harbor would have heard the broadcast
reporting of the dumping of tea casks into the water by the colonials and
taken instant action to suppress them," (Shayon, p. 113)

This raises two possible explanations.  One is that Mr. Shayon's memory was
playing him false and that he did inadequate research to back it up.  The
other is that his dismissal was in fact political in nature.    Any thoughts
on this, people?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 00:07:58 +0000
From: Carolie Minuscule <daggerofthemind2000@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Re: April Fools is foolish

 >>Isn't that what Elizabeth's April 1 posting was all
about - a starting point for one's imagination?

I'm a newcomer to this list, *and* catching up on my
reading, so sorry this is a bit late.  I'd just like
to put in my two cents which is that I've never
understood the appeal of pranks and jokes when it
involves deceiving someone.  Such things are all
dangerous to one degree or another.  I don't
understand why people could feel proud at making
someone else feel like a fool.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 00:08:28 +0000
From: Alan Chapman <[removed]@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Yesterday USA/Radio Classics Live

Walden Hughes wrote:
 > ...On Sunday 4-13-03 I will run an interview with Alan Chatman and
 > Will Hutchins talking about Radio Classics Live.  You can hear all
 > three show at [removed].

I called my mother, and she assured me that my correct name is "Alan 
Chapman" (my wife and kids are relieved, too) <g> ...

Will and I were delighted to be interviewed by Walden!  This year's 
Radio/TV Classics Live -- May 2 & 3 in Brockton, MA -- promises to be one 
of our best!  All the details (TICKET INFO, cast, programs, TICKET INFO, 
times, location, TICKET [removed] and, lessee, what else?  Oh yeah, TICKET 
INFO) is on our website: [removed]

Alan Chapman

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 00:09:11 +0000
From: TEAM8@[removed]
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Need radio playlist software (simple)
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain

              Love the Oldtime Radio Digest, have learned so much for all you
guys and gals over the last couple of years, Thank You.   I have a problem, I
and some of my neighbors want to listen to oldtime radio on a regular basis,
we have ordered a Low Power AM transmitter and we would regularly like to
play radio shows and be able to listen to them on our AM radio's virtually
any time we turn them on.  We have decided to dedicate a single computer to
this project.  I have checked out many radio playlist programs but none seem
to have the simplicity we desire (jazler, megamix and many others).  We want
to dedicate a 180 gig hard drive to the project, but don't want to re-record
with leadins to the shows as part of the show itself (when it aired, date,
and other information we would like to provide at the beginning and end of
the shows) as well as announcing  the names and artists of songs played (big
band stuff)  we would like to do the lead in and lead out stuff and put it on
a CD and be able to automatically toggle from the show on the hard drive
"playlist" to a file on the CD rom then back to a show from the hard drive
"playlist" then CD rom, ad nausium.  We want to start this thing and let it
run for months at a time automatically signing on and off the air with
probably 12 hours a day transmitting time,  I know that this is asking a lot,
but since I got so many of my neighbors interested in old time radio, I
figure this is the only way to get them to go home and stay there.
        I woke at five am one morning and found 3 neighbours in my den
,playing a  reel to reel tape of 1940  fibber mcgee and molly shows,
....their fishing trip got rained out and they thought, that while they had
nothing to [removed] you have a solution for me  other than a
shotgun, I would appreciate a word or two, even if the word is, "Can'tBeDone"
I'm Team8@[removed]    Thanks Much,  Terry L. Padrnos

   *** This message was altered by the server, and may not appear ***
   ***                  as the sender intended.                   ***

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 00:09:40 +0000
From: badaxley@[removed]
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Elizabeth McLeod

I just want to say thank you Elizabeth for all of your informative postings in
the digest.  I think you are the definitive source of all things otr and I
always look forward to your input.  It doesn't seem to be much of anything on
this genre that you haven't researched.  I hope you are considering a book on
Amos 'n Andy, which would be a real addition to the otr community.  Again
thanks for your knowledge and willingness to share it.
Bob Axley

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 00:10:01 +0000
From: "Mark Kinsler" <kinsler33@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  rustling paper

I read that at one of the earliest broadcast concerts, the audience was 
issued programs that were printed on silk to prevent rustling.

As to the rustling of paper scripts, my own limited experience indicates 
that if you're using a directional microphone, you have to rustle the 
papers on your desk pretty vigorously in order to have them heard over the air.

Mark Kinsler
512 E Mulberry St. Lancaster, Ohio USA 43130 740-687-6368
[removed]~mkinsler1

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 00:10:34 +0000
From: Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Re: A&A Research

On 4/10/03 5:16 PM OldRadio Mailing Lists wrote:

 >Just to refresh my memory, has Elizabeth's Amos and
 >Andy research been published in book form? If not,
 >then based solely on the tidbits she sometimes imparts
 >here, it should be. After all, the best way to correct
 >false impressions of the program, based solely on the
 >later scripts, is to publish, for as wide an audience
 >as possible, the actual facts. A website and a mailing
 >list won't necessarily reach that wide an audience.

Well, I *have* been considering options in that area. But I've had nearly
35,000 hits on my A&A website in the two years it's been up in its
current version, and let's face it: a book on such an obscure subject, no
matter who publishes it, and no matter how many OTR buffs buy it, is
*never* going to sell that many copies.

I have found, based on email feedback I've gotten, that the website has
become a useful research source for college media students -- and I'll be
frank in acknowledging that this is the primary audience I'm looking to
reach with this project. Many of the college media students of today will
go on t o be the pop-culture professors of tomorrow, and if I can reach
those students and get the real story of A&A into the classrooms at this
level, I can count on that story eventually becoming more of a mainstream
view. It won't happen overnight -- but, gradually, it will happen. I've
already got evidence from the field that it *is* happening.

 >Also, am I correct in understanding that NONE of the
 >serialized stories still exist, just the half hour
 >"sit-com" versions?

The closest thing to a complete serial storyline to survive in audio form
is the Earl Dixon Affair from May-July 1929. At present, syndication
recordings are known to exist for 31 of the 59 episodes in this sequence
(24 of them are currently in OTR circulation, while the remaining 7 are
privately held.)

Unfortunately, the climactic episodes of this sequence have not yet
surfaced. These episodes cover Amos's two-week long trial for grand
larceny, his conviction and prison sentence, and the exposure by Andy,
the Kingfish and Mr. Taylor of Earl Dixon as the real criminal  -- and
they resolve many key points of plot and characterization established in
earlier episodes. Without these episodes it's possible to get a sense of
how Correll and Gosden created textured characterizations and structured
their stories -- but without the climax, the story loses much of its
power.

These episodes are also problematic in that they do not include the
announcer lead-ins, which were read live by Bill Hay over WMAQ and by
local announcers at each chainless-chain affiliate. Correll and Gosden
often used these plot recapitulations to plant seeds for future plot
development, to summarize story events that happened "off-mike" between
episodes, and to outline certain character motivations that would not be
apparent from Amos or Andy's point of view: the listener would then know
certain things that Amos and Andy did not as the story unfolded. These
lead-ins are in my posession as part of the scripts for the sequence --
and if the rest of this storyline ever surfaces, I'd be very interested
in producing a proper reissue of the whole story, with a modern
re-recording of the announcer segments. (Bass-voiced announcers with a
Scots accent are invited to apply for the job: if it's to be done, I want
it done right!)

All told, including both chainless-chain and network episodes, only 85
complete episodes of the "Amos 'n' Andy" serial -- out of 4091 aired --
are currently known to exist. (Fragments ranging in length from 7 minutes
to 40 seconds are known to exist for another ten episodes.)

A bit of math to put it all in perpective: The serial logged nearly ten
times more episodes than the sitcom (4091 vs. 426) and nearly five times
the airtime (1022 hours vs. 213 hours). Even if you've heard *all* of the
approximately 250 episodes of the A&A half-hour sitcom series in
circulation, you've only heard about five per cent of Correll and
Gosden's total output between 1926 and 1955.

No matter how you look at it, that's an awfully insignificant slice out
of their work -- but because the generation that knew them in their prime
has pretty much died off, and their most vital work was not recorded,
they're best known today -- and judged -- for what was essentially a
footnote to their career. I can't think of any other major performers in
American pop culture who are so well known, yet so poorly understood.

Elizabeth

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 00:11:28 +0000
From: "Elizabeth Minney" <epminney@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  ooops

I hied myself right quick to the following URL

[removed]

in order to see pictures of some of my all-time favorites on Suspense.
BUT two of those I looked up had what I think is faulty information in
their bios.

Victor Perrin, according to [removed], was born in 1916 and died in
1989.  This d'Illyria website lists the following info about him:
Victor Perrin
Born : 6 December 1900 in Clinton, Massachusetts, USA
Died: 30 April 1974 in Rochester, Minnesota, USA of lung cancer.

This d'Illyria site also added several years to Mr. Bartell's age.

However, the idea of this website is a great one, and I shall watch its
development with eagerness.

Elizabeth Minney

--------------------------------
End of [removed] Digest V2003 Issue #152
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