Subject: [removed] Digest V2003 #233
From: "OldRadio Mailing Lists" <[removed]@[removed];
Date: 6/12/2003 8:17 AM
To: <[removed]@[removed];

------------------------------


                            The Old-Time Radio Digest!
                              Volume 2003 : Issue 233
                         A Part of the [removed]!
                                 ISSN: 1533-9289


                                 Today's Topics:

  OTR TV                                [ skallisjr@[removed] ]
  OTR television revivals               [ "Bob Watson" <crw934@[removed]; ]
  OTR Television Revivals               [ Don Polite <hawkeye8347@[removed]; ]
  Re: First Network Political Coverage  [ shoshani@[removed] ]
  Re: NBC in 1924?                      [ Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed] ]
  TV rehash of OTR shows                [ Kermyt Anderson <kermyta@[removed]; ]
  Germert Case                          [ Jim Widner <jwidner@[removed]; ]
  See what you're missing               [ JackBenny@[removed] ]
  Joe E. Brown                          [ wa5pdk@[removed] ([removed] L.) ]
  Radio shows on TV                     [ Jim Widner <jwidner@[removed]; ]
  Re:OTR reworked for TV                [ Dixonhayes@[removed] ]
  OTR to TV                             [ "Alain Altounian" <[removed]@[removed] ]
  AM/FM Stereo                          [ "glen schroeder" <gschroeder10@char ]
  OTR revivals                          [ Kenneth Clarke <kclarke5@[removed]; ]
  NBC predecessors                      [ "Ed Ellers" <kd4awq@[removed]; ]
  OTR That Would Make Bad TV            [ Dennis W Crow <DCrow3@[removed] ]
  OTR Television Revivals               [ Herb Harrison <herbop@[removed] ]
  Today in radio history                [ Joe Mackey <joemackey108@[removed] ]
  otr television revivals               [ michael chatterton <chat51@comcast. ]
  Seeking Lone Ranger [removed]          [ bruceglazer@[removed] ]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 19:56:08 -0400
From: skallisjr@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  OTR TV

With the appearance of several OTR shows on recent TV, Charlie Summers
asks,

assuming it were done RIGHT, whatever the heck that [removed] OTR
show would you like to see re-made for today's television audience? Which
shows do you think would translate well to the small screen?
And which shows wouldn't work at all, no matter how faithful to the
original (or even _because_ they were faithful to the original)?

The Lone Ranger, if done right, would work.  With Clayton Moore, it
already came close.

The Green Hornet could work.  It couldn't be  like the 1960s attempt,
though.

The Shadow almost worked as an Alec Baldwin film.  It could be made to
work on TV.

Big Town appeared on early TV for a while.  Why not now?

On the other hand, many OTR comedies would have tough sledding to retain
fidelity to their OTR origins.

Mr. Keen, Tracer of Lost Persons probably would have difficulties being
faithful to its origin.

Stephen A. Kallis, Jr.

Also, Captain Midnight wouldn't work, except possibly as a miniseries.
Its plots are too complex for even n hour TV show.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 20:07:56 -0400
From: "Bob Watson" <crw934@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  OTR television revivals

My vote would be for Gunsmoke.  While the TV series was good, it just
doesn't compare to the radio version, which was darker and didn't have as
many 'happy' endings.  I think scripts from the radio series could be
brought to television today with very little, if any, of the editing/script
changes done when the original series was brought to television.

Bob

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 20:47:04 -0400
From: Don Polite <hawkeye8347@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  OTR Television Revivals

Hi,
     In response to Charlie's question about which OTR
shows we would like to see revived to the TV screen, I
vote for Amos n Andy.  I know that it would be next to
impossible for that to happen, but I still would like
to see it.  Here's hoping that Elizabeth M. could
persuade the world that it has somehow erred in it's
premature burial of this great comedy.  In comparison
to some of the shows I have viewed in the last 25
years, it is quite mild.

Don Polite
Lewes, Delaware

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 20:47:31 -0400
From: shoshani@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Re: First Network Political Coverage

Jim Cox writes:

1924 - The first political convention on radio was presented by NBC.
Graham McNamee provided coverage of the Republican National Convention
from Cleveland, OH

Marc Robinson's "Brought to You in Living Color:  75 Years of Great
Moments in Television & Radio from NBC" released last year authenticates
what we've known forever, that the formation of NBC is pegged to a
four-and-a-half-hour gala inaugural broadcast occurring on November 15,
1926.  "More than a thousand of New York's most glamorous society and
show business figures gathered in the Grand Ballroom of the
Waldorf-Astoria Hotel "

Could someone explain how the NETWORK preexisted this date in 1924?

My guess is that this is a "back-dating" of NBC to the original AT&T network.
AT&T built their network, anchored around WEAF, in 1924.  NBC's original
network, in 1926, was anchored around WJZ.  This original NBC network was the
"Blue" Network; the "Red" Network, which was the 1924 AT&T hookup, was acquired
by NBC not long after they started operations. (Not a simple story but I don't
know how to condense it to the paramaters of OTR-D.)

Thus, the NBC network in name dates back to 1926, however, its oldest component
dates back to 1924.

I actually don't understand why modern corporate logic is not imposed, with NBC
fully claiming to go back to 1924 and ABC, which was once the Blue Network,
dating itself all the way back to [removed]

Michael Shoshani
Chicago IL

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 20:48:53 -0400
From: Elizabeth McLeod <lizmcl@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Re: NBC in 1924?

On 6/11/03 8:08 PM OldRadio Mailing Lists wrote:

Could someone explain how the NETWORK preexisted this date in 1924?

This is an example of confusing NBC with the network which *preceded* it,
the hookup of stations which was generally called either the "Telephone
Group" or the "Red Network." This network grew out of ad-hoc linkages of
stations during 1924 promoted by AT&T, and anchored by WEAF, New York and
WCAP, Washington.

The 1924 conventions were broadcast over an ad-hoc AT&T network (as well
as a much smaller, unrelated network promoted by RCA and known as the
"Radio Group.") The success of this hookup on a national basis prompted
AT&T to begin operating the chain on a regular basis. It was on an
partial schedule into 1925, but by 1926 was offering programming on a
full schedule to its affliates, including such programs as the Eveready
Hour, the Ipana Troubadours, the Gold Dust Twins, the A&P Gypsies, the
Clicqout Club Eskimoes, and the B. F. Goodrich Silvertown Cord Orchestra
featuring the Silver Masked Tenor. All of these commercial programs were
being distributed by the Red Network on a national basis for months prior
to the NBC Inaugural Broadcast.

The Red Network was sold, as an operating entity, to NBC in September of
1926, and the new organization took over its operation in November.  Thus
November 15th marked the beginning of *NBC,* but not the beginning of the
Red Network. NBC's internal publicity machine made a careful point of
obliterating public memory of as much of the Red Network's pre-NBC
existance as it could get away with -- but examination of radio
publications of the 1925-26 period reveals that the Red Network was a
fully viable, successful operation long before Sarnoff, Ayelsworth, and
company entered the picture.

Elizabeth

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 21:15:38 -0400
From: Kermyt Anderson <kermyta@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  TV rehash of OTR shows

We all know some OTR shows made successful transitions
to television--I'm sure we could all name several with
no trouble. ("Gunsmoke" still holds the record for
longest running dramatic program on tv.) And many OTR
shows failed miserably upon transfering to tv--The
Great Gildersleeve and Fibber McGee and Molly both
come to mind as well-known examples. But it's
interesting that there are many OTR shows which made
the transfer--some more successfully than others--but
which we seem to have forgotten about. Several of them
have been named in the thread that Charlie just
started. I've been meaning to ask about these shows
for a while--were they any good? Do any episodes still
survive? Here's a partial list of shows that moved
from radio to television, but which I don't think are
that widely known to have done so. (All culled from
[removed])

"Halls of Ivy, The" TV-Series 1954-1955
38 or 39 episodes
(This one actually starred the Colmans, and cost
$50,000 per episode--one of the most expensive shows
of its time)

"Richard Diamond, Private Detective" TV-Series
1957-1960

"Bold Venture" (1959)
39 eps

"Tales of the Texas Rangers" TV-Series 1955-1959
52 episodes

"It Pays to Be Ignorant" TV-Series 1949-1951

"One Man's Family" TV-Series 1949-1952

"Our Miss Brooks" TV-Series 1952-1956

"Third Man, The" TV-Series 1959-1965
(77 episodes)

Now ain't that interesting?
Kermyt

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 21:28:32 -0400
From: Jim Widner <jwidner@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Germert Case

I received this recently at my web site. If anyone can help, please contact
the sender directly:

- --
From: "cheryl nadasi" <cheryln93@[removed];
To: jwidner@[removed]
Subject: Gernert Case
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 00:10:07 -0400

Dear Sir,
      I am doing a Family Genealogy and one of my realatives is a man
 called Gernert Case an old country western singer who sang on the
 [removed] called him the Kentucky [removed] you happen to know
 anything about this [removed] bit of information would help,or maybe you
 would know someone who could [removed] You for your [removed],Cheryl
 Nadasi.

Jim Widner
jwidner@[removed]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 23:41:24 -0400
From: JackBenny@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  See what you're missing
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain

Michael Biel wrote:

I didn't watch these two TV
series, but I did watch and listen in stereo to the special edition of The
George Gobel Show on October 21, 1958, sponsored by RCA Victor to promote
Living Stereo and Living Color.  There was a special sealed centerfold in
TV Guide that when unfolded during a certain commercial and placed over the
lower half of the screen would show us peasants what we were missing by not
having a color TV.

Off-topic, I know, but I had to add this bit that I recently read in Leo
Gorcey Jr.'s "Me And the Dead End Kid" (available from
[removed] ):

"First thing I noticed, when Uncle Lee turned on the portable TV with the
rabbit ears, was the strip of blue gel taped over the top two inches of the
black
and white TV screen.  I spotted a similar strip of green gel taped over the
bottom two inches.  Uncle Lee smiled, exposing his rows of yellow teeth.
'That's so I can have color TV!' he laughed.  'The blue is for the sky and the
green is for the grass!'

"I thought 'How can this guy stand to have blue and green gel on his black
and white TV when he's watching the Jackie Gleason Show?'  Uncle Lee said it
worked best when Bonanza was on.  Since Bonanza was his favorite program, who
cared about the rest?"

--Laura Leff
President, IJBFC
[removed]

  *** This message was altered by the server, and may not appear ***
  ***                  as the sender intended.                   ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 23:41:33 -0400
From: wa5pdk@[removed] ([removed] L.)
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Joe E. Brown

Was Joe E. Brown ever on a radio production?  He was one of the funniest
movie characters from my [removed]  back in the 1930's, however, I do
not recall him being on a continuing radio production.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 23:41:50 -0400
From: Jim Widner <jwidner@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Radio shows on TV

   This got me [removed] it were done RIGHT, whatever the heck that
[removed] OTR show would you like to see re-made for today's television
audience? Which shows do you think would translate well to the small screen?
And which shows wouldn't work at all, no matter how faithful to the original
(or even _because_ they were faithful to the original)?

Personally, I'm surprised Johnny Dollar never made it to at least fifties
TV. Given the need for rights to go to the likes of Richard Diamond (David
Janssen), and some of the others of that time, I would have thought JD
would make a great small box-size TV series.

Jim Widner
jwidner@[removed]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 23:42:18 -0400
From: Dixonhayes@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Re:OTR reworked for TV
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative
X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain

Today, with cell phones being
pretty much ubiquitous, along with pagers, wireless PDA's, laptops, etc.,
YTJD would work [removed] plus it's just a cool show.

I always thought YTJD would work beautifully as a modern-day TV show, with
its attention to details, its potential for dry humor, etc.  And the phone
opening would be perfect.  In fact, I always wondered if the answering
machine at
the beginning of "The Rockford Files" was supposed to be a wink at YTJD.

Dixon

  *** This message was altered by the server, and may not appear ***
  ***                  as the sender intended.                   ***

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 23:42:36 -0400
From: "Alain Altounian" <[removed]@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  OTR to TV

Even before getting to the suggestion of Pat Novak by a fellow contibuter,
that was the first series i thought of upon reading this thread.

I believe that "Novak" was ahead of its time in it's updating of the
Chandleresque anti-hero.  It could be a combination of two elements that
 some ) current TV conveys quite well ; grit and wit.

Alain.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 23:42:45 -0400
From: "glen schroeder" <gschroeder10@[removed];
To: "otr" <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  AM/FM Stereo

Hi list.

I grew up in Milwaukee WI and in the early sixties two stations-    WTMJ
and WISN-had am and fm stereo.  They only did it on Sundays.  In the
afternoon one had a classical show and at night the other had a jazz show.
I wrote it that way, because I don't remember which station had which show.
Maybe Ron or someone else from Milwaukee will remember better.  My older
brother had a Fischer stereo and the tuner had seperate knobs for AM and FM.
What I remember most about it is that sounded dumb.

Love Dis List

Glen Schroeder

Madison  WI

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 23:43:54 -0400
From: Kenneth Clarke <kclarke5@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  OTR revivals

          Charlie makes a good point here.  If it were done right,
with the right casts, with story and dialogues which made it more
modernized (yet stayed true to the original concept), I'd like to see
"The Shadow", "Chandu, the Magician", "One Man's Family", and
"I Love A Mystery" on television.   "The Shadow", "Chandu, the Magician",
and "I Love A Mystery" could be updated by having the grand kids
of the original characters pick up the gauntlet and follow in their
grandparent's crime fighting shoes.  "Candy Matson" might make a good
revival, if the right actress were cast in  the part.

          I wouldn't mind seeing some other shows on television such as
"Information Please" (the possibilities for guest panelists is virtually
endless), "Can You Top This?" (considering the comedians/comediennes
today, it could be quite entertaining), and (I'm not sure whether it was
OTR or not) "What's My Line?"

          What I don't think would be successful would be some of the
married couple shows like "Burns and Allen", "Vic and Sade", "Easy Aces",
and the like.  Depending on the audience demographic, the ratings for
them would probably sink like a stone!  Westerns (no matter which ones)
wouldn't make [removed] enough action.  Something like "Mercury Theatre
of the Air", "Lux Radio Theatre" and the like wouldn't make it because
theatre owners would probably think they'd cut into their profit margin.
Something  like "Abbott and Costello" and "Martin and Lewis" wouldn't
fly because they are too closely identified with one specific team.
Anything
similar would be constantly compared to the original.  "My Friend Irma"
is iffy, because some people might indeed have a ditsy roommate, but
others might think of it as offensive to women.

          I'd be interested in hearing from other people regarding their
suggestions.

Kenneth Clarke

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 23:44:19 -0400
From: "Ed Ellers" <kd4awq@[removed];
To: <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  NBC predecessors

Jim Cox (otrbuff@[removed]) wrote:

Could someone explain how the NETWORK preexisted this date in 1924?

AT&T's network -- which was called the Broadcasting Company of America, and
later became the Red Network of NBC -- started a regular schedule in fall
1924, so they may have carried the convention as well.  RCA had a network of
its own that predated NBC; it later became the Blue Network.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 01:06:28 -0400
From: Dennis W Crow <DCrow3@[removed];
To: OTR Digest <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  OTR That Would Make Bad TV

My response to one aspect of Charlie's question --- what OTR would be
unsuitable or impossible for TV---my first candidate is Breakfast with
Dorothy and Dick.  The drama around their  sumptuous breakfast table would
be lost on TV, and as I recall some of the programs I have heard, the
principals actually eat the food before them.  That certainly wouldn't work
for 45 minutes on TV.

My second candidate is The Fat Man.  J. Scott Smart's character allegedly
weight 230 pounds in some of the episodes, and he always stepped on the
scales at the beginning of the program to prove it.  That wouldn't work on
episodic television because 230 pounds is not necessarily a reflection of
"fat,"  if it ever was,  and the opening radio  sound effects are spoiled
by any visual image. We listen for the coin dropping in the register slot
and the announcer's dramatic depiction of the moment.  We conjure an image
of a very unique, "down to earth," intensely human detective.  It truly is
inspired radio. Actually seeing Brad Runyon would ruin the metaphor we have
for him.

Dennis Crow

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 09:59:14 -0400
From: Herb Harrison <herbop@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  OTR Television Revivals

One show I *would* like to see, if done as well as the original, would be
"Frontier Gentleman". As an "adult Western", it was free to tell stories
outside the formulas of the "shoot 'em ups" of the time.

Herb Harrison

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 09:59:26 -0400
From: Joe Mackey <joemackey108@[removed];
To: otr-net <[removed]@[removed];
Subject:  Today in radio history

   From Those Were The Days --

1947 - Sergeant Preston of The Yukon went national for the first time.
The show, with the Canadian Mountie and his trusty dog, King, continued
on the radio until 1955, beginning on WXYZ Detroit in 1938. Sgt. Preston
was created by George W. Trendle and Fran Striker, who also created The
Lone Ranger and The Green Hornet.

1955 - The first network radio show to be produced with no script, The
University of Chicago Round Table, was heard for the final time on NBC.
The program was the first network radio program to win the coveted
George Foster Peabody Award.

1956 - "This is Monitor, a weekend program service of NBC Radio," was
heard for the first time. Notables such as Bill Cullen, Ed McMahon, Hugh
Downs, and Dave Garroway recited this line. It was a network cue to NBC
radio stations across the nation who carried the long form news,
entertainment and variety broadcast from New York City. Stations and
listeners who were "on the Monitor beacon" were entertained for six
hours or more each Saturday and Sunday night for nearly two decades.
NBC's Monitor was one of the last live network radio programs on the air.

   Joe

--
Visit my homepage: [removed]

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 09:59:59 -0400
From: michael chatterton <chat51@[removed];
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  otr television revivals

   with television i think it could be good if they were willing to
spend money
but they wouldnt !  look at the lone ranger ,tarzan and jane ,even the
cartoon was off track even though great for kids and thats wonderfull
but,what about makeing the story  as close as posible ?
  but it would never happen becuse tv is always low budget!
  now movies is a different story they could take the green hornet
and make it a big movie success like spiderman, and the shadow could be
as well if they get the right directors and right actors to play the
part!
    oh well there is always hope!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 10:00:15 -0400
From: bruceglazer@[removed]
To: [removed]@[removed]
Subject:  Seeking Lone Ranger [removed]

Recently I remember reading, here, that an album
or cassette of "Music of the Lone Ranger" (or
a similar title) had gone out-of-print.  If someone
has a copy of it, I would be glad to pay (a reasonble
price) for it.

Please feel free to contact me at my email addres
above.

BRUCE

--------------------------------
End of [removed] Digest V2003 Issue #233
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